Do you think its true?

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Found this read interesting.

 

 

 

ANTLER RESTRICTIONS COMING TO NY 2015

As the saying goes , “it was inevitable”.  So what does the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) have in store for us ? Plenty it seems so let’s dig in and see what’s going to happen to deer hunting in NY…..

This one has been brewing for quite some time so I guess we can’t be surprised. The DEC has made it clear the rules are changing and soon. By that I mean this season, which will require the DEC to come out with the plan real soon. The DEC has info right here for all to review if interested. One thing that stands out to me is the DEC isn’t hiding behind some kind of “healthier herd , balanced herd ” BS . They’re coming right out and admitting this is about growing bigger bucks and nothing more. That alone is a shock but personally I appreciate their honesty.

We’ve had some level of antler restrictions here in NY the last few years. Can’t tell you I know much about the results because they seem to be difficult to find. The area where they’ve done it is in the Catskill region which is far from me and I don’t know anyone who hunts there. Let’s assume there are bigger bucks there since the restrictions were put in place. The DEC sounds as though their plan will have the capability to be customized , so to speak , for different regions of the state. Not sure what this exactly means but the Northern Zone is much different than the Southern Zone so I can see where they need to have some flexibility in how they manage all this. So where do we stand on all this? I’ve got some opinions and experiences so you can bet I’ll share them. I’m interested in yours so please feel free to share.

I made the comment about the motivating factor here being “bigger bucks”. I say that having watched, participated, listened and learned over quite a few years and seeing what really happens and why. 1st off I’ll tell you upfront I don’t buy into any of the “healthy , balanced herd” BS that’s being sold to us hunters 24/7 by the holier than tho hunting experts. THIS is about growing bigger bucks and that’s all it’s ever been about. While managing my own property over the years I’ve passed up more bucks than I could possibly count. The reason is I simply didn’t want to end my season by filling my tag too early. This resulted in years where I never filled my tag. No complaints from me , that’s just how it goes sometimes. While I was passing up all these bucks over the years I was keeping track of what I saw , when I saw it and if I saw that buck again. I’ve done this for years and I’m talking about quite a few bucks. In 2012 alone I let 17 different bucks walk past me and never killed one of them. What I proved is what has been proven by many before me and many more will do the same. If you’re going to pass up bucks you better understand this does NOT mean you will have bigger bucks next year on your property. It simply doesn’t work like that. The reason is bucks spend most of their lives moving , they move continuously for years before they settle down and call someplace home. Maybe 1 out of 100,000 bucks actually reach that 5-6 yr old stage where they settle down. So while you’re passing up bucks you’re relying on hunters a few miles away to do the same in order for you to see bigger deer the next year and so on. The bucks you let walk are not going to be there next year, so your discipline will benefit someone else the following year and not you. This is how it goes and it’s been proven all over the continent.

Let me share some words straight from the DEC to give you an idea where they’re coming from. This from their “announcement” about antler restrictions :

Regardless, many hunters would prefer to see DEC enact regulations to further reduce harvest of yearling bucks. A 2010 survey by Cornell University found that 57% of hunters across the state thinkmandatory ARs are a good idea. But the survey also found that 54% of hunters think voluntary ARs are a good idea and 50% like a 1-buck per hunter rule.

I’m not aware of a single hunter who participated in this survey but I can tell you right now there isn’t a single hunter in NYS who supports “1-buck per hunter rule”. That is simply fabricated and has no place in any plan for managing our deer. As for the rest of it I would most likely believe it. We all know a lot of hunters have been voluntarily practicing antler restrictions for years, myself included. I would guess most have seen the same results I have in that there hasn’t been any noticeable change in the amount of older bucks we see. What the DEC has made pretty clear is this : we either go along with this or they will shorten our seasons and reduce hunting opportunities. Not sure this is a great strategy to sell an idea but this is what they will do so we’ll end up buying into this. The bottom line is we are going to be hunting under different rules very soon so we better get on board and not end up losing a couple weeks off our season because we don’t agree with this.

 

The whole strategy behind growing bigger bucks is to have as much land as possible committed to the same goal. Letting young deer walk and growing older deer can only be accomplished by “locking up” a whole lot of ground to the same rules. I’ve read about this countless times while trying it myself to see what actually happens. Many of the “experts” have claimed you need to have a minimum of a square mile committed to antler restrictions or you won’t see any benefit. I believe this is seriously under estimated in that it will take several square miles in a antler restriction program or you won’t see ANY benefit. The only real way to accomplish all this is to institute rules/laws that will require it to happen. It’s been done in Pennsylvania and from what I can see it’s working. I say working in that there seems to be a whole lot more bigger bucks coming from Pa. these days than there was in the past. But there’s another side to all this , there always is.

The drive from my house over to my hunting land is about 15 minutes. My route takes me through a state forest , public hunting land , where I see the same guys every year hitting the woods whenever they can. You know the guys I’m talking about , the guys who love this sport as much as anyone and take every opportunity to get in the woods. They don’t own any land so they hunt the state land and hope for the best. Many show up driving the family car through the snow just hoping they can make it to a parking spot they can not only get in but get out! These guys can’t get away from work during the week so they’re limited to what ever time they can grab on the weekend when their family commitments allow. These are the people who will feel the impact of this , at least in the short term and maybe the long term. I’m not going to bang the drum against antler restrictions but I’m also not going to ignore the guy I’m describing here because these are the people who represent the majority of our group. My hope is this whole idea works in a way the average guy I’m talking about still has an opportunity to fill his tag and keeps him/her in this sport because we cannot survive without them.

Soon we will have the details from the DEC and I’ll be sure to share them here. In the meantime I’m open to any discussion any of you want to have regarding antler restrictions in NY. We all have opinions about this and they all should be heard. Speaking of which , the DEC says they have been “studying” this idea for years and have solicited input from hunters. This is news to me and I follow this stuff pretty closely. Oh well , we can’t expect to truly be heard when the wheels are already in motion. So we’ll sit back and see what comes of this. Thanks for stopping by and please share this with friends and offer comments. If you’re one of the many who’s looking forhunting land in NY to purchase well you know I have it! Click or call (800) 260 – 2148 any time and we can talk about what properties I have right now and especially the ones I have coming soon! Thanks again for stopping by

 

Edited February 7, 2015 by Four Season Whitetails

[Mr VJP]

I'm sure it is going to happen.  But unless it is a rule that must be followed by everyone, including youth hunters, it will not work.  I just wonder if they plan to issue more antlerless tags at the same time.  If not, we will see too many deer in many areas.

 

I also think it will have a negative affect on many out of state hunters, reducing the number of out of state licenses sold.

 

[hondamx32]

Well I am an hunter in NY that supports 1 buck per hunter and a bunch of hunters I know do as well, I think we would see a bigger impact on buck size than with antler restrictions.  People would also get to choose the buck they use their tag on.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I'm sure it is going to happen.  But unless it is a rule that must be followed by everyone, including youth hunters, it will not work.  I just wonder if they plan to issue more antlerless tags at the same time.  If not, we will see too many deer in many areas.

 

I also think it will have a negative affect on many out of state hunters, reducing the number of out of state licenses sold.

I dont believe the out of state thing..If you ever get on Letchworth for the last 2 weeks of bow and 1st week of shotgun take a gander at the out of state plates. I have talked with a few from different states and they all say the same thing...They come to Letchworth because of the chance at a buck of a lifetime. Higher licenses money will come in from out of state hunters. It may take a year or two or three but it will help. Take a look at all the states around us that are complaining about low deer harvests this year. The list is many really.

 

They will still give heavy doe tags in areas like the 8's that have alot of deer. Saying all of that thou, I will be shocked if they do AR in the areas of the Dak's and such that have low deer numbers.

[phade]

This guy like to hear himself talk. Doesnt take a brainiac to recognize bucks are not continuosly moving for years before calling a place home. He makes it sound like they are nomads. The OBR commentary is just lol...

[gjs4]

100% of New York hunters want to shoot bigger bucks, 52% hope a law will do it for them and about 5% have the gumption and ground to make it happen annually

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[First-light]

Give me antler restrictions before one buck rule.

[Terry]

100% of New York hunters want to shoot bigger bucks, 52% hope a law will do it for them and about 5% have the gumption and ground to make it happen annually

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Bingo!

[wildcat junkie]

This guy like to hear himself talk. Doesnt take a brainiac to recognize bucks are not continuosly moving for years before calling a place home. He makes it sound like they are nomads. The OBR commentary is just lol...

I hunt a very small area but it a great area, a funnel that is surronded by a lot of woods, swamps, etc. I get to see lots of bucks most years. I have seen more than 1 buck for several years starting from 1 1/2 to 3 1/2 & 4 1/2 years of age when I killed them & aged them. I probably saw them as fawns, but there  was no way to recognize them.

 

I woudn't have a problem restricting myself to certain antler size, but what about someone that starts deer hunting as an adult? What about seniors?

[gjs4]

So not used to be the good guy on here. Lol.

The DEC will not be the savior on mature bucks. It will be the individuals that have a balanced herd based on what their ground/area warrants. Then trigger management will do more than points or number of deer killed. Those who truly get it on mature bucks already know the length and timing of gun season has more to do with what you see than don't.

[G-Man]

More deer does not a hunter make, same people that get deer now consistently will be the same to get them no matter what the law.

[thphm]

I woudn't have a problem restricting myself to certain antler size, but what about someone that starts deer hunting as an adult? What about seniors?

 

What about seniors ?. Do you mean they should have the same rights as a Youth hunter ?. I do not understand your comment. And I am pretty sure I am your senior. And chose the deer I would like to shoot at and harvest.I am all for the  buck per year per hunter and the 3 point per side or better. 

 

Edited February 15, 2015 by OMG

[bowslinger]

i think each person should be able to choice what they want too shoot

[Doc]

I have no idea of who the guy is that wrote that rambling essay, or why I spent the time reading all of that. It was signed simply MJ, with no info on why his opinion is any more important or credible than any of ours.

 

I will say that the AR lobby is a very dedicated, vocal, and determined group of hunters that have used every thing at their disposal to pressure the DEC to yield to their voice. Good idea? .... Bad idea? .... I have no real predictions. I do believe that passing AR and/or some of these other pop-fad management ideas will likely cost some unknown amount of our dwindling hunter base. That seems to be the current trend, to be regulating our numbers away. Hey, if that's what the majority of hunters want, I am getting a bit too old to be losing sleep over it. The future of hunting will be whatever it will be with or without my concern ..... lol.

 

 

[nyantler]

I have no idea of who the guy is that wrote that rambling essay, or why I spent the time reading all of that. It was signed simply MJ, with no info on why his opinion is any more important or credible than any of ours.

 

I will say that the AR lobby is a very dedicated, vocal, and determined group of hunters that have used every thing at their disposal to pressure the DEC to yield to their voice. Good idea? .... Bad idea? .... I have no real predictions. I do believe that passing AR and/or some of these other pop-fad management ideas will likely cost some unknown amount of our dwindling hunter base. That seems to be the current trend, to be regulating our numbers away. Hey, if that's what the majority of hunters want, I am getting a bit too old to be losing sleep over it. The future of hunting will be whatever it will be with or without my concern ..... lol.

 

Yeah I am with you about getting to old to lose sleep over any of this... and yes the future of hunting will be what it is in spite of me... I really am having too much fun hunting lately to really get all rapped up anymore in the ongoing arguments of the ignorant NY hunter. All hunter's have opinions, but most hunters form those opinions on baseless hearsay... it's like looking into a Kaleidoscope with your ears just listening to all the crap sometimes. It's getting so old.

[Jason118]

Question ~ I realise some meat hunters don't care about horns I get that. I believe it's a safe usmption also that everyone understands that for the restriction to work it must be a large area. Besides the first two years wouldn't antler restriction Benifit both sides of the coin? That spike everyone had to pass on didnt disapear ~ he now has much bigger Mass and horn wise. Your chances of taking a buck is the same as it was before antler restriction.Wouldn't it be a win win?? Who wouldn't want bigger deer? Can't one just take a extra doe in the mean time? I'm for it under this mind set but I'm willing to listen to the other side of the coin. I believe youth should be a exception. How much of a dent would that really make? I'm sure some one has the numbers but I'm thinking no dent at all really. And being a bow hunter I would like to keep my two tags. That may be selfish but again what is the actual impact?

[Doc]

Can't one just take a extra doe in the mean time?

The problem is that the "doe option" isn't available to everyone everywhere in NYS. There are WMUs that have no permits, and others where they are severely limited.

 

See that's the problem. Everyone tends to only see what is going on in their backyard and try to dream up restrictions and regulations to spread all over the state.

[phade]

The problem is that the "doe option" isn't available to everyone everywhere in NYS. There are WMUs that have no permits, and others where they are severely limited.

See that's the problem. Everyone tends to only see what is going on in their backyard and try to dream up restrictions and regulations to spread all over the state.

Highgrading does occur in pretty much every instance (whether that warrants not doing it I dont know), mucj of the state would need a 4 pt rule if no spread rule was introduced (spread rules for public management just seems too complicated in my opinion), and support isnt at 2/3 statewide. And as Doc stated parts of the state are no or low odds doe areas.

[growalot]

BTW have any of you read the latest Fish -Fur-and Game...very interesting study done on radio collared buck of different age groups...

 

PS...in front of magazine in the news section...NC study shows......

Edited February 17, 2015 by growalot

[Curmudgeon]

I am willing to play by whatever rules everyone else does. However, I will get a handful of DMAP permits every year. What about the guys who just want to fill the freezer?

[Don_C]

This guy closes this with a pitch to buy land from him. Seriously, if that were his first statement, I think I would have absorbed the info differently.

 

In my opinion, he is selling land, flat out. Call the number, I can hear him now…”Don’t be forced into not being able to shoot a deer by NYS, get your own land now, where all of the neighbors are managing for bigger bucks…  blah blah blah”

I agree with Doc, I am not losing any sleep over this at all. It is what it is and I will continue to love doing it and play by the rules.
 

[Doc]

I am willing to play by whatever rules everyone else does. However, I will get a handful of DMAP permits every year. What about the guys who just want to fill the freezer?

I suspect some of them will probably take up bowling or squirrel hunting or something ..... lol. Imagine what it would be like to be in an area of low deer population, with little or no chance at an antlerless permit, and then someone comes along and tells you that more than like the chances are pretty good that any buck that comes along will not be legal to shoot. That's kind of like telling someone that you are welcome to spend your money on a license, and go out and sit in the woods, but you can't take anything. Sounds like a real deal to me. I think I would likely find another pastime. A trip to the supermarket will be necessary if they want that freezer filled.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Question ~ I realise some meat hunters don't care about horns I get that. I believe it's a safe usmption also that everyone understands that for the restriction to work it must be a large area. Besides the first two years wouldn't antler restriction Benifit both sides of the coin? That spike everyone had to pass on didnt disapear ~ he now has much bigger Mass and horn wise. Your chances of taking a buck is the same as it was before antler restriction.Wouldn't it be a win win?? Who wouldn't want bigger deer? Can't one just take a extra doe in the mean time? I'm for it under this mind set but I'm willing to listen to the other side of the coin. I believe youth should be a exception. How much of a dent would that really make? I'm sure some one has the numbers but I'm thinking no dent at all really. And being a bow hunter I would like to keep my two tags. That may be selfish but again what is the actual impact?

So you want your "choice" to take two deer but want to tell a hunter his "choice": should be modified?  What about the guys in the limited or no doe permit areas? They don't have the option to just take an extra doe.

[solon]

I suspect some of them will probably take up bowling or squirrel hunting or something ..... lol. Imagine what it would be like to be in an area of low deer population, with little or no chance at an antlerless permit, and then someone comes along and tells you that more than like the chances are pretty good that any buck that comes along will not be legal to shoot. That's kind of like telling someone that you are welcome to spend your money on a license, and go out and sit in the woods, but you can't take anything. Sounds like a real deal to me. I think I would likely find another pastime. A trip to the supermarket will be necessary if they want that freezer filled.

This sums up my opinion perfectly - why pay for a license that has such limitations - it will become just another NYS tax - I'll have to go find the bowling ball that's in my basement

[Doc]

Sounds like all the deer season restrictions and other tinkering and bending to public pressure groups is being put off for another year. According to the most recent issue of NYON, the DEC has announced a postponement due to time. So these concessions and allowing the NYS hunters run the deer management programs will have to wait for another year.