So do you think NYS will expand the crossbow season

[Doc]

Is it just me or weren't crossbows around way before guns were even thought of and around barely less than bows? People are acting if crossbows are some new magical death dart from the Gods. It's a tool and that's all it is. Can you take a deer with a .270? Yep. Do is the guy with the 300 win mag wrong to kill a deer with an obviously more powerful weapon? Nope. Hunting is hunting. Use what you enjoy using within the law. Hell if someone wanted to use a Barret 50 and I didn't have to worry about it still going for a mile after it hit the deer, I wouldn't care.

Ha-ha ..... none of the guns, bows, crossbows, knives, or any of the weapons look or perform at all like they did back when they were first invented. It's even a stretch to call any of them the same weapons as what we use today. I think the old, "which one was invented first" argument is kind of irrelevant to anything.

[MACHINIST]

Ha-ha ..... none of the guns, bows, crossbows, knives, or any of the weapons look or perform at all like they did back when they were first invented. It's even a stretch to call any of them the same weapons as what we use today. I think the old, "which one was invented first" argument is kind of irrelevant to anything.

 

 

Is it just me or weren't crossbows around way before guns were even thought of and around barely less than bows? People are acting if crossbows are some new magical death dart from the Gods. It's a tool and that's all it is. Can you take a deer with a .270? Yep. Do is the guy with the 300 win mag wrong to kill a deer with an obviously more powerful weapon? Nope. Hunting is hunting. Use what you enjoy using within the law. Hell if someone wanted to use a Barret 50 and I didn't have to worry about it still going for a mile after it hit the deer, I wouldn't care.

 

I can agree with both statements.While a crossbow isn't as easy to operate as a rifle or a longbow there is a difference there.Its personal preference when it boils to it.And the weapons we have now versus 50 years ago are like night and day.Just look at the compound,compared to a compound when they first came out our bows are like flippin wizardry magic compared to them.Rifles from 100 years ago...same thing.The whole spectrum in all our lives (including hunting) have changed so much that if we had to live lives like we did even 20 years ago 95% of our population would die from culture shock.Hell my wife wouldn't know what to do with herself without that damn facebook!!!

[Borngeechee]

Ha-ha ..... none of the guns, bows, crossbows, knives, or any of the weapons look or perform at all like they did back when they were first invented. It's even a stretch to call any of them the same weapons as what we use today. I think the old, "which one was invented first" argument is kind of irrelevant to anything.

That's exactly my point. None are what they used to be and they will constantly evolve and improve so why fight the use of any of them. Use what you like.

[Doc]

That's exactly my point. None are what they used to be and they will constantly evolve and improve so why fight the use of any of them. Use what you like.

I don't think there really is any significant opposition to using a crossbow as a hunting weapon. I think the controversy comes into what seasons they are allowed to be used. And that is a controversy that will likely still be here long after I am gone.

 

There are still those that think that compounds should never have been allowed into bow seasons. When I consider the element of legal precedents and how that single inclusion has the potential to tear down all limits to what is included in bow seasons, there are times when I agree with them ..... lol. I remember the objections to compounds back in the day when they were being pushed, and the "precedent" argument was the primary crux of the opposition. Yes, I was one of those young whipper-snappers who mocked and ridiculed those crazy-sounding predictions and grabbed up one of those miracle "pulley-bow" machines for myself. Standing here today and looking back, it appears that those old-timers were probably right after all. 

 

Even the idea of having firearms deer hunting during an active bow season (which used to be an absolute no-no) seems to not be as absolute and concrete as it once was, as inroads are being explored and implemented there as well. It's all about sport evolution and precedents begetting more precedents. Times, they are a-changing as they say, as bowhunting continues to lose it identity. Nobody wants it to be about the weapon anymore as hunting emphasis continues to march toward less challenge and more instant gratification. You cannot go against a cultural or attitudinal evolution that values ever-changing motives and goals. Likely we should simply eliminate all special seasons and lump all weapons together and save decades of arguing and painfully slow evolution toward exactly the same result.

[G-Man]

A stick and a string are are just that no mater what form energy is stored mechanically. So one season. For them, guns are chemically powered so one for them.. I know we have a muzzloader season but I hear multiple shot muzzloader in that season quite a bit so not really sure it's a valid season anyway

[MACHINIST]

A stick and a string are are just that no mater what form energy is stored mechanically. So one season. For them, guns are chemically powered so one for them.. I know we have a muzzloader season but I hear multiple shot muzzloader in that season quite a bit so not really sure it's a valid season anyway

 

Yes the pump action and semi auto muzzleloaders are a special treat to hear.Like they are fooling anyone!!LOL

[Doc]

Yes the pump action and semi auto muzzleloaders are a special treat to hear.Like they are fooling anyone!!LOL

Ha-ha-ha...I have no doubt that a lot of muzzleloader deer are taken illegally with other weapons. But don't forget that there are small game hunters out there legally blazing away at bunnies and such. That may give the impression that there is a lot more poaching than is actually the case.

 

As a side question that is asked purely out of ignorance since I do no use a muzzleloader, but, is there any telltale features of a muzzleloader wound that looks any different than a shotgun slug wound, or is that just some wishful thinking? I don't know but I was just wondering if maybe the DEC enforcement guys might get a break in catching some of these poacher-types that may be out there.

[LI OUTDOORSMAN]

Although I am in favor of crossbows I would not like to see the season open and you choose your weapon..Much rather prefer to see archery season (including crossbows) and gun season seperate.I like to be in the woods when deer are active and moving freely about their day. Not hiding and acting like ghosts like they do as soon as the gun season starts.

Edited April 9, 2015 by LI OUTDOORSMAN

[MACHINIST]

Ha-ha-ha...I have no doubt that a lot of muzzleloader deer are taken illegally with other weapons. But don't forget that there are small game hunters out there legally blazing away at bunnies and such. That may give the impression that there is a lot more poaching than is actually the case.

As a side question that is asked purely out of ignorance since I do no use a muzzleloader, but, is there any telltale features of a muzzleloader wound that looks any different than a shotgun slug wound, or is that just some wishful thinking? I don't know but I was just wondering if maybe the DEC enforcement guys might get a break in catching some of these poacher-types that may be out there.

I don't think I could tell the difference between a muzzleloader shot and a shotgun slug being shot.I'm pretty sure the rifle crack and that of a muzzleloader are a major difference.I had a friend that hunted one year exclusively with his smokepole and during opening day I could tell him apart from another guy in the same vacinity.You are 100% correct with the small game hunters though

[G-Man]

Shotgun slugs if foster type ae .69 caliber that's a big hole, most muzzleloader are .50 cal. If a shot gun 12 GA is using a Sabot the slug is 50 cal, if a muzzloader is shooting Sabot it's .44 or .45 almost all muzzleloader shooter I know are now using in lines so a smaller hole would be expected. If the dec checked a carcass and found a 69 cal hole I'm sure he/she would ask to see the gun used....

[stubby68]

Although I am in favor of crossbows I would not like to see the season open and you choose your weapon..Much rather prefer to see archery season (including crossbows) and gun season seperate.I like to be in the woods when deer are active and moving freely about their day. Not hiding and acting like ghosts like they do as soon as the gun season starts.

                                                 Bow hunters always say they like the challenge of using  a bow to hunt and kill a deer. If this is true then why do they have a problem with guns or other things in the woods while they are hunting? If deer instantly go into hiding and get harder to hunt when gun starts season Wouldn't it be an even bigger challenge to to hunt with a bow while others are hunting with a gun?

                                                   I would love a one season you chose the weapon you want to use. Then we would see who really wants a challenge. 

[MACHINIST]

The only change I would like to see is the addition of crossbows to the bow season.I don't think having a open free for all season where you use what you want is the answer,when you look at it we have that know.Its called rifle season.You can use rifle,shotgun,muzzleloader,pistol,bow and crossbow in it

[The_Real_TCIII]

Bow hunters always say they like the challenge of using a bow to hunt and kill a deer. If this is true then why do they have a problem with guns or other things in the woods while they are hunting? If deer instantly go into hiding and get harder to hunt when gun starts season Wouldn't it be an even bigger challenge to to hunt with a bow while others are hunting with a gun?

I would love a one season you chose the weapon you want to use. Then we would see who really wants a challenge.

Do you bow hunt?

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Do you bow hunt?

LOL....I would guess NOT!

[grampy]

Sometimes the ones who cry the loudest against bows and crossbows,are the ones who don't use them.

[LI OUTDOORSMAN]

I like to hunt...anytime of the season it doesnt matter... I usually am fortunate enough to hunt a few times through the whole season from bow to muzzleloader..But late bow season is the best as far as I'm concerned as far as activity and sightings of game."Challenge" really has nothing to do with it..If I wanted a challenge I'de cut off an arm or go blindfolded...

[Five Seasons]

                                                 Bow hunters always say they like the challenge of using  a bow to hunt and kill a deer. If this is true then why do they have a problem with guns or other things in the woods while they are hunting? If deer instantly go into hiding and get harder to hunt when gun starts season Wouldn't it be an even bigger challenge to to hunt with a bow while others are hunting with a gun?

                                                   I would love a one season you chose the weapon you want to use. Then we would see who really wants a challenge. 

 

There's a level of challenge. It's not just the spooked deer, it's the peace and quiet of the archery woods that many enjoy. Early season deer are patternable and the guns change that. Many of us think bow hunting is hard enough without making it really hard. I enjoy all forms of deer hunting, but there's a reason we all don't hunt with a recurve either. Shooting a nice buck at 30 yards or less is an accomplishment, heck any deer with a bow is a job well done. The challenge is getting close enough vs a rifle shot at 200 yards across a field (which I have and enjoy as well). But at some point you have to draw the line. For me that's sticking with a compound and not going full recurve. Some prefer to stalk deer as a challenge. It's all different.

 

When i'm 50 I will probably be more picky with what I shoot and what I shoot it with. But to just have a free for all doesn't jive with me.

[phade]

Shotgun slugs if foster type ae .69 caliber that's a big hole, most muzzleloader are .50 cal. If a shot gun 12 GA is using a Sabot the slug is 50 cal, if a muzzloader is shooting Sabot it's .44 or .45 almost all muzzleloader shooter I know are now using in lines so a smaller hole would be expected. If the dec checked a carcass and found a 69 cal hole I'm sure he/she would ask to see the gun used....

 

That's for 12 gauge, 20 gauge the specs become much more similar. To the point I am not sure a CSI agent is going to determine it unless they look at the powder chemical analysis. I think the SSTs in 20 gauge by hornady are the exact same as the ones provided for MZ. If not the same, very close.

Edited April 14, 2015 by phade

[phade]

                                                 Bow hunters always say they like the challenge of using  a bow to hunt and kill a deer. If this is true then why do they have a problem with guns or other things in the woods while they are hunting? If deer instantly go into hiding and get harder to hunt when gun starts season Wouldn't it be an even bigger challenge to to hunt with a bow while others are hunting with a gun?

                                                   I would love a one season you chose the weapon you want to use. Then we would see who really wants a challenge. 

 

What you would see is property access go from challenging to obtain, to a lockdown of unexperienced levels. All that would do is make FSW happy as a prognosticator.

 

I also suspect highgrading would be a very common term within 3-5 seasons.

[Doc]

"Challenge" really has nothing to do with it..If I wanted a challenge I'de cut off an arm or go blindfolded...

Ha-ha-ha ..... I don't think that body mutilation is what we are talking about when we talk about hunting challenges. Although, I suppose that may be one way that someone might approach putting challenge into their hunting....lol. Personally, I think I'll stick to just dialing down some of the technology to get my hunting challenges. I have a dislike for amputations.

[wolc123]

I prefer to minimize the challenge to myself, while maximizing my chance for a clean kill on a deer.   The crossbow is way better there than a compound and light-years ahead of a re-curve or long-bow.   There is nothing cool about wounding deer while "challenging" oneself.   You really can't sit back and criticize a crossbow if you never picked one up and actually tried hunting deer with one.    Only then will you realize just how much more effective they truly are.    A crossbow is an especially good instrument for introducing youngsters to the sport of hunting, and they ARE the future of it.  They are also good at extending your "twilight-years" in the field a little longer.  Too bad that selfish, little elitist group of bow-hunters wont let up a bit and share a few of their deer with those who may not be so strong or have so much free "practice-time" available.    At least we got the peak of the rut, It could be worse like the few other states that still don't allow the crossbow into archery season at all.  The tide definitely seems to be on our side now and I would guess that within 5 years, one will be free to use whatever type bow he or she wishes during ALL of archery season.          

[Doc]

I prefer to minimize the challenge to myself, while maximizing my chance for a clean kill on a deer.   The crossbow is way better there than a compound and light-years ahead of a re-curve or long-bow.   There is nothing cool about wounding deer while "challenging" oneself.        

I'll tell you what, I have a nice scope-sighted .270 that has never failed to cleanly take down a deer. It certainly does a whole lot cleaner job than a crossbow, compound, longbow, or recurve, and it doesn't use any special season either. So, following your philosophy, let's get rid of all those more challenging weapons and only allow scoped rifles for hunting?

 

No, you see there are a lot of us that value that idea of "challenge" in our hunting. In fact for some of us that is the whole point of hunting instead of just going to the butcher. 

[nyantler]

I think the term "clean kill" is just justification for taking the easier way to harvesting a deer. Let's face it, hunters have gotten lazier and are always looking for the latest gadget to make hunting and harvesting easier... the least effort possible is more preferred by most hunters. The challenge given up for just a harvest. But, it is what it is.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I think the term "clean kill" is just justification for taking the easier way to harvesting a deer. Let's face it, hunters have gotten lazier and are always looking for the latest gadget to make hunting and harvesting easier... the least effort possible is more preferred by most hunters. The challenge given up for just a harvest. But, it is what it is.

Man did you nail that one and the future is bright for those involved. high powered this and that, food plots,baits, The camera that sends you a text/pic telling you the buck is standing in front of your stand RIGHT NOW so come kill me and lest me forget the outfitters and high fence that do all the leg work for ya. Thats is the future of hunting as we know it and like it or not...We that cut or teeth on the..Old Style Of Hunting..are a dying breed.

 

Today its about size,how much $ and how fast can i have it with most everything in this world and hunting is no different.

[Five Seasons]

The crossbow is way better there than a compound and light-years ahead of a re-curve or long-bow.      

 

that's interesting because I've been told they're just as challenging as a compound and bulky and clumsy and noisy.

 

Now I hear they're light years ahead?

 

You guys really want a challenge. Skip a day on your private land and try and kill a mature deer on public land, with any weapon.