Deer Survey Results

[Fletch]

Think some of you could change your signature lines to "I am fine with killing tomorrow's trophy today" and "NY has no big bucks where I can hunt .... Just on posted or leased ground".

 

Or you could go with the - I'm a shitty hunter and want to shoot a big buck so would everyone else stop shooting bucks to make it easier.....

 

I have seen plenty of shooter bucks on state and private land in CNY, I am honest in saying most have outsmarted me, but they are there and pressure can sure make them ghosts.

[dbHunterNY]

size of a buck and how hard it is to kill is all relative for the first years of it's life.  same goes for doe.  if people in your area pass a certain age/class/sex deer then those deer are going to wonder with less care because they're not getting shot at.  once you start shooting at doe in an area they've lived without bullets flying at them they smarten up real quick.  same goes any age class buck.  all things being equal the older the buck the more experience and success at eluding hunters it has and the more it's gotten pressure/shot at.  that said a 2.5+ year old buck might not be the same elusionist skill in your woods as it is in mine.  aside from acknowledging varying degrees of discipline and effort, accessing another hunter's skill from an internet forum posts (not in reference to anyone really) is just stupid.

[gjs4]

Always a treasure chest of value by the "I want it but am too lazy to work for anything" crowd. Perhaps you could ask Hillary to take away the skills and land of all those mean people who don't want to share their piles of opportunity with you

Your low standards and effort are the reason, not a good excuse gents.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[phade]

Money, land, and time are the mitigators to a bad hunter looking good.

 

I know of a couple hunters who can't hunt themselves out of a paper bag skill wise, but the land they own, access, etc. results in a wall they wouldn't otherwise have based on their skills I suppose you could say finding the right land is part of hunting, but there are situations where its either dumb luck, heritage or otherwise. 

 

Someone who consistently shoots 2.5 yos on public in NY holds as much weight with me as some of the better hunters in the country that I discourse with. At the end of the day I try to learn from everyone, even if I have an impression they success is predicated largely on factors outside skill.

[RangerClay]

I just got around to reading the latest NY Outdoor News, it seems that they have come to the conclusion that there is "No regulatory solution that is going to make all hunters happy"................holy crap, how much time, effort and money was dumped into figuring that out?

 

Now they will have to re-think the whole plan.  With NYS sporting license sales plummeting anywhere from 2-4 million dollars last year they cannot afford to make changes that could possibly alienate anymore NYS sportsmen.

[NFA-ADK]

Agree 100%  But while I can not judge the skills they have I can sure judge the knowledge they present and that goes a long way, especially on forums.  That along with the general attitude gives me a good impression of these people.

 

I won't tell you the members I dislike but I will put a few up on the pedestal because I do admire them for one reason or another.  Could be integrity could be the adventures they go on or just a great outdoors attitude.  I can't post them all but these are some that get my blood pumping in a good way!  Growalot, Phade, Grampy, Belo, Skyhunter(Don't see him much anymore), FastEddie, Wooly, Borngeechee and Lawdaz.  If your not on here it does not mean I dislike you!     

 

 

size of a buck and how hard it is to kill is all relative for the first years of it's life.  same goes for doe.  if people in your area pass a certain age/class/sex deer then those deer are going to wonder with less care because they're not getting shot at.  once you start shooting at doe in an area they've lived without bullets flying at them they smarten up real quick.  same goes any age class buck.  all things being equal the older the buck the more experience and success at eluding hunters it has and the more it's gotten pressure/shot at.  that said a 2.5+ year old buck might not be the same elusionist skill in your woods as it is in mine.  aside from acknowledging varying degrees of discipline and effort, accessing another hunter's skill from an internet forum posts (not in reference to anyone really) is just stupid.

 

[jjb4900]

Agree 100%  But while I can not judge the skills they have I can sure judge the knowledge they present and that goes a long way, especially on forums.  That along with the general attitude gives me a good impression of these people.

 

I won't tell you the members I dislike but I will put a few up on the pedestal because I do admire them for one reason or another.  Could be integrity could be the adventures they go on or just a great outdoors attitude.  I can't post them all but these are some that get my blood pumping in a good way!  Growalot, Phade, Grampy, Belo, Skyhunter(Don't see him much anymore), FastEddie, Wooly, Borngeechee and Lawdaz.  If your not on here it does not mean I dislike you!     

damn, and I was just about to say something nice about you!

[NFA-ADK]

Sorry if I offended you.?

damn, and I was just about to say something nice about you!

 

[jjb4900]

Sorry if I offended you.?

I was joking.........not offended at all.

[dbHunterNY]

Agree 100%  But while I can not judge the skills they have I can sure judge the knowledge they present and that goes a long way, especially on forums.  That along with the general attitude gives me a good impression of these people......  

 

yup I can definitely agree with that.

[Larry]

To those who want a state wide over the counter survey if you are for AR’s remember you vote would not count any more than the guy who only hunts on the first weekend and Thanksgiving weekend, and just wants a deer. If you’re not in favor of AR’s then I would be pushing for an over the counter survey.

[Larry]

check these out found on the DEC web-site

buckmgmt2012.pdf

buckmgmt2013.pdf

buckppt2013.pdfbuckppt2013.pdf

[Doc]

To those who want a state wide over the counter survey if you are for AR’s remember you vote would not count any more than the guy who only hunts on the first weekend and Thanksgiving weekend, and just wants a deer.....

Yup, and that's exactly the way it should be. One hunter - one vote. His vote is as valid and appropriate as mine.

[sweet old bill]

sure seems that the way it should be ..one person and one vote

[Larry]

If you looked at my last post and down loaded the buck management plans and the WMU groupings. The new 5yr plan is going to be based somewhat on these plans. We will find out later this month.

[gjs4]

Just wondering for all the guys who use their wife's license if they should have a second vote/input .....

I am just appalled with all of the wasted efforts and costs related to these surveys. Firms up my belief they don't care.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Edited July 15, 2015 by gjs4

[NFA-ADK]

Why did I not fill out my survey?  Because they wanted it back in December, well my hunting season goes until January.  The last thing I am thinking about in December is a survey for the DEC.  Funny thing is most of the action I saw last year was after the survey period. 

 

If you want to survey someone for an activity they do then it should be done after the season is over not in the middle of it when all hell is braking loose.  

 

Gjs4 Every person with a license should have a vote, but way to stir up the pot. 

[DirtTime]

An expert hunter to me is someone who is in the woods everyday, or almost everyday watching, learning, striving, and always adapting. They know every inch of the land they hunt. They can tell when a flea left poop on a leaf on a tree just over that ridge. They take that knowledge and apply it on other land, and are usually successful. But not every expert tags out every year. You can scout your backside off, put up 300 trail cams, have great stand placement, perfect wind, and see nodda!

Hunting is as much a little luck as it is skill. You can't shoot what doesn't show up.

 

As for skill level, to really get great skills to hunt and even try to understand ( always a learning experience ) white tail deer you have to be in the woods. Learn to use and read a topo map and a compass. Head into the ADK or CTSK mountains. The big big bucks are in the big big woods! You have a better chance at a huge buck in the middle of where no one hunts then where everyone hunts! I really don't get why most people don't understand that one. Hunting 300 feet from your garage over looking WalMart might get you a dandy, but if that buck walks in front of another hunter guess what...................

Does, those of us who hunt for meat have no issue killing a doe! So, I guess that's a mute discussion........

 

As for all this hoorah about surveys and results, it will never be right! Even if the DEC could give honest and true factual numbers, they wouldn't be right. Those numbers would not include the people who don't tag or report deer, or the poachers who don't even buy a license.

 

So, please explain to me how all these surveys are really going to help anyway?

[dbHunterNY]

There is no right or wrong for survey results. They are what they are. It wasn't necessarily a waste. Would we rather they did whatever and asked for forgiveness later? I think they were expecting some data to support at least some direction opposed to split down the middle. I think the way some surveys were tossed could've effected the results but in what way there's no way of knowing. I wouldn't consider it botched though.

[gjs4]

Tempted to foia the info- I am sure they'll use some supposed results to justify their next brilliant move

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Doc]

I have to say that I am a bit disappointed when it begins to feel like the DEC can't head to the john without first taking a survey. It's nice that they ask on matters that are not biologically sensitive, but when they begin to appear that they use public opinion to establish major game management decisions that should be scientifically arrived at, then I think somebody is just trying to shirk responsibility and dodging blame for mistakes and wrong decisions. We hire these guys to do a job, not to conduct surveys to let majority opinion of the uneducated dictate management. Are we getting to the point where we might as well abolish the DEC and just hire Cornell to do surveys to handle the management decisions?

[gjs4]

Hunter satisfaction is in their job duties- so is herd management. My view is slightly askew from yours in feeling they do it to say folks had a chance. Sort of like voting republican in NY- many do it but we all know how it ends, right? No surprise to anyone that's read a post of mine; They're failing at the herd/game part too. We have this antiquated, though ever changing, reporting system and no ensues efforts. They claim to work with sportsman through liaison groups (nycc, lmnop, etc) for a finger on the pulse of what hunters want. Look at this doe proposal thing for early and late season- NO ONE heard of it prior to "this may happen". Doubting its a real proposal it is just like their Albany breatheren throwing out a spin to usher something else through. We spend lots of money on licenses and get so little in return. We all feel slighted by the number of surveys issued and ultimately they don't matter. Taking this full circle with kicking the dead horse; they just put them out their for our sake and the return address was most likely a recycling bin in Albany.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[dbHunterNY]

I have to say that I am a bit disappointed when it begins to feel like the DEC can't head to the john without first taking a survey. It's nice that they ask on matters that are not biologically sensitive, but when they begin to appear that they use public opinion to establish major game management decisions that should be scientifically arrived at, then I think somebody is just trying to shirk responsibility and dodging blame for mistakes and wrong decisions. We hire these guys to do a job, not to conduct surveys to let majority opinion of the uneducated dictate management. Are we getting to the point where we might as well abolish the DEC and just hire Cornell to do surveys to handle the management decisions?

 

I don't think it occurs to you that we license buying hunters get in the way of DEC doing their job?  ALL of it effects biology.  every decision DEC makes has an effect on biology.  they come up with management decisions and then assess if they can carry them out without a decrease in hunting license sales the following year.  if they just did what's maybe right but it caused a decrease in license sales say by half, would you be willing to pay twice the cost for your license?  maybe you'd rather just a couple of the decision makers at DEC get their jobs canned to offset the loss in money?  I'm sure that'd facilitate doing the "right" thing for the next guy or woman in line.  heck if they screwed things up too bad there'd be not john at DEC headquarters because there would be no DEC at least for deer.  you wouldn't have deer hunting.  I doubt the screw up and associated aftermath would be that great though.  would you hire your plumber that only knows plumbing to wire your house?  cornell does surveys and DEC has the task of management decisions it's that simple.  they don't have the man power to conduct the survey and aren't nearly as good at doing it.  if they did it'd be the least important person, maybe in intern, doing the grunt part of processing the results.  that make you all warm and fuzzy? lol

 

you know everything DEC is responsible for outside of deer and just making management decisions.  Come on!  Don't be asking that last question you posted.  I know it was 5:30AM and you're a little numb to DEC's performance but stay in the game and keep your eye on the prize!

 

[Doc]

It is nice to believe that all these surveys are done to preserve hunter numbers, but I believe the reality of it is that DEC surveys are popular ways of conducting game management only as it allows them to disperse blame when things go bad. Yes, it is a lot easier to let the public make the hard decisions for you and then have a scapegoat when things go bad. It is getting to be the politic way of doing business these days. Even our legislators have caught on to this. But what is getting increasingly difficult is to get people to actually apply the expertise that they are being paid for, and take full responsibility for the results. Yes, I believe that wild game management by popular opinion is basically shirking responsibility and depriving us of getting the services we are paying for. But in the end, they can always say, "Well, we gave you what you asked for".

 

 

[dbHunterNY]

I most definitely know there are some that know their stuff and others that don't within DEC.  I had a NYS forest ranger who's a friend tell me that at one check station a DEC biologist was telling everyone that a deer was 15 years old based on the sharpness of its teeth.  to put it into perspective tooth wear isn't reliable and more theoretical at less than half that age.  at that age every tooth is going to be a flatten stub.  some at DEC need an over haul or refresher at least if they're assigned to deer stuff.  education sucks here in NY.  hunters don't need to be forced to learn it all, some just don't have the desire which is absolutely fine.  info being continuously put out there it'll sink in as if common knowledge.  one important take away from survey results is most thought 1.5 year olds should be protected which actually blew my mind.  I thought most could give a damn, but some seed has been apparently planted.  there's probably mixed opinions on why yearlings should be saved, but that doesn't matter.  point is as long as people are thinking about bettering the situation the more things will slowly start to take hold.  problem is DEC has to promote it for some to believe it.  some look at me and others I know as just another hunter that knows some stuff but would take a DEC bird biologist's word over mine when it comes to deer, no matter how ridiculous the info.