SPCA ran into my fourth amendment

[Tacti_Steve]

I finally got home from the Shot Show after a storm on the east coast delayed most flights across the country. First real night home so I decided to go hunt my dog. When I got home my wife says I just missed the SPCA. Turns out someone walking down the road (best I can figure from the details I've put together)  doesn't understand that hunting hounds are not lazy fat house dogs. They're in shape and they reported me saying he was malnourished. There's my first problem. They didn't come over and talk to me or take the time to learn what is really going on. But they did the "right" thing and reported it. I can get over that until I figure out who it was. 

What really set me off is that come to find out they showed up with a Sheriff Deputy and before knocking on the door they trespassed to the far end of my yard to inspect my kennel. You can see from the road the dog was obviously not in it. It was night time and the lights in the house were on. There was no reason for them to conduct a warrant less search. Had I been home and they had knocked first I would have shown them the dog. 

My hound has a feeder. He as access to nearly unlimited food 24/7. He's just active and very fit. Now that they violated my fourth amendment I'm exercising my fifth and they'll never see him. What if the dog was being abused. They would have just thrown out their whole case because they couldn't stop and ask first! Hopefully they learn from all the formal complaints I'm going to file. Oh and neither of them ever identified themselves to my wife. They just knocked on the door and started asking questions. Luckily she had the sense not to open the door until she knew who at least the SPCA person was. The Deputy though never identified himself and my wife thought he was another SPCA officer. 

Talked to the supervisor at the Sheriff's station late the next afternoon. I tore into him (nice and professional like) about how his officer failed to identify himself to my wife. Then went onto explain how his officer would have been responsible for jeopardizing the case had my dog actually been abused. I made sure to explain to him how I knew the difference between criminal trespassing and technical trespassing (which is what the officer did). Said I would have been nice and assisted in the investigation but now that they violated my fourth amendment I was going to exercise my fifth. Now they can't see the dog without a warrant so don't bother coming back. And I have pictures of both their foot prints in the snow. 

He said he had to wait a couple of days for the deputy to go back on duty but he was calling the SPCA officer immediately to get their side of the story. I said that's fine but don't come back without a warrant.

Know your rights and don't give into the intimidation of law enforcement. Also obey the law and respect your animals.

[Five Seasons]

I'm no lawyer but I believe a complaint and anything in their line of site (your kennel) would be enough for probable cause. They didn't kick your door down...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Tacti_Steve]

Incorrect. They could not see the dog. It's called technical trespassing (not criminal). Still a violation of my rights as a neighbor complaining is not probable cause. Neighbors complain all the time. They have to see something themselves. Therefore any evidence gathered is not admissible.

www.HuntingTactical.com

Modern Gear for Modern Hunters

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[BigGuyNY]

Probable cause is what is needed for an arrest not a search.  There are numerous exceptions to the Fourth Amendment that include emergency, escape and the possibility of evidence being destroyed.  There is also what is considered the plain view exception.  For example, if the police are walking past your home and they can see inside of it while you are committing any penal law crime they can enter without a warrant.  The main thing to keep in mind when referring to the Fourth Amendment is that you must articulate an expectation of privacy, because without it the Fourth Amendment does not apply.   

[Jeremy K]

If you can't see the dog ,then how did anyone know to turn you in?

Edited January 30, 2016 by Jeremy K

[jjb4900]

If you can't see the dog ,then how did anyone know to turn you in?

it probably barks nonstop and that's what caused the complaint to come down.

[Tacti_Steve]

If you can't see the dog ,then how did anyone know to turn you in?

Because the dog was in the kennel just before they showed up. I took the dog to go hunting. They showed up about a half hour after I left. My wife was home. And if there was no dog then there was no probable cause to walk over to the kennel in the far corner of my back yard before going to the house. There is no walk way and not entrance to my house near the kennel. And that even if there was that only applies to the deputy not the SPCA officer. They are not law enforcement. They are a private organization funded by donations. They have a known anti-hunting agenda. They are the same as a regular person walking into my yard. Trespassing. The line gets gray because they were with an officer but he was not in the right. The point is he should have gong to the door first!

[Tacti_Steve]

it probably barks nonstop and that's what caused the complaint to come down.

I take offense to that! My hounds are well trained. My dog will only bark if someone comes into the yard. I hate dogs that bark non-stop. If my dog barks he gets the collar!

[Uptown Redneck]

If your kennel was within plain sight then they have every right to do what they did.

[Tacti_Steve]

If your kennel was within plain sight then they have every right to do what they did.

Incorrect. Even the deputies SGT admitted that if the dog was not there (as evident by the kennel door being open) he should not have gone to the kennel. The SGT (with the understanding I gave and needing to follow up with the officers) said that the officer was supposed to go to the door prior to entering my property. The complaint was not regarding the kennel. It was regarding the condition of the dog. And the SPCA NEVER has any right to enter your property! They are not law enforcement or first responders. They are a private contracted organization to do animal control. The village dog control officer has more power than they do.

[Five Seasons]

If there was a call, I don't see any issue with going to the kernel. Not sure if you have a hut or not but maybe they wanted to see if he was in the hut or there was any visible sign of animal cruelty in the cage. All perfectly legal.

Your offense at all this is what smells bad to me. I'm not saying you should just let anyone into your home without cause. But if you're innocent I wouldn't be freaking out.

[Paula]

Fight the fight Steve! Keep us posted ;-/

[Uptown Redneck]

Maybe Steve should stand armed and patrol his property making sure no evil government agents violate his or his dogs rights

I bet he now wishes he lived in my neighborhood where we all mind our business

[jjb4900]

http://www.lollypop.org/site/c.clKUI9OQIoJcH/b.7795697/k.D8B2/Investigating_Animal_Cruelty.htm

I don't know about them not being Law Enforcement.....if you go to their website it seems to say differently.

Edited January 31, 2016 by jjb4900

[Tacti_Steve]

Thank you to those that support me. Don't get me wrong I don't have any person issues with the officers. It's the scum that gets of on the technicality I have a problem with. And there is no reason my wife should not have known by the end of the conversation that he was a deputy! He never identified himself. And NY dog is not starving.

www.HuntingTactical.com

Modern Gear for Modern Hunters

[email protected]

[landtracdeerhunter]

I like the idea your standing up for your rights. Being professionals, one would of thought business would have been conducted in a professional way. Sometimes, these agencies throw their weight around and don't get called out on it, as you can see by some of the responses given. Sounds like some of your passer byers need to lay off on the Animal Planet and watch more Hallmark channel.

[Tacti_Steve]

Here is a good document to those that say the officer was in the right. This explains the different forms of trespassing and which are illegal vs. get evidence thrown out vs. perfectly ok. Its that gray area (technical trespass) that happened here. 

 

I also found out another detail. SPCA officer who I hadn't talked to yet called (because my wife gave her my#) and asked when a good time to see the dog was. My reply: When you have a warrant. Come to find out the complaint actually gave my neighbors address. So they went there first. Now the kennel is closer to his house than mine. But the property line is clearly marked with a row of pine trees. So:

 

A) The complaint was for a different address

The dog wasn't in the kennel

C) They crossed the property line

D) The kennel Door was open

E) They crossed my yard instead of walking out and around as there is no walkway from the kennel to the house

F) They FAILED to properly identify themselves at the door

 

Any public defender fresh out of law school could get you off that charge.

police_trespassing.pdf

Edited January 31, 2016 by Tacti_Steve

[coonhunter]

What people are failing to realize is that this has nothing to do with animal cruelty, but everything to do with the fact that this hound is used for hunting. This is a common tactic used anymore around the country. PETA gets in the local SPCA, and they go after the working dogs and hunters' beagles and hounds that are kept outside.

 

This story is just beginning if he doesn't nip it in the bud now. Maybe the local SPCA is still legit, but if it is, he has a neighbor that is in PETA or another nonsense animal rights group.

 

When i ran competition with my hounds, this was tried on me, and I dealt with it thanks to a little birdie that told me what was going to happen. Lets just say that the average, nosey person does not like a shotgun cycling behind them when they are sneaking around someone else's property.  

[Five Seasons]

Dog owners lives matter!

[ELMER J. FUDD]

Find out who it was and make sure their house is up to code.

[Doewhacker]

http://www.bedlamfarm.com/2015/03/24/making-a-revolution-joshua-rockwood-and-the-night-of-the-bullshit-misdemeanors/

Here is what can happen, this guy battled in court over the last year because of animal rights idiots that don't know what they are talking about.

[ants]

I know you think it sucks, but they did nothing wrong.

[Tacti_Steve]

I know you think it sucks, but they did nothing wrong.

I disagree with your definition of wrong. Jeopardizing a case I feel is wrong. Not identifying themselves properly is wrong. I'm not saying investigating the complaint was wrong. Its how they did it. 

[b3h]

Did you let the USSA know about this?

Ol dog on a stray

[ants]

I disagree with your definition of wrong. Jeopardizing a case I feel is wrong. Not identifying themselves properly is wrong. I'm not saying investigating the complaint was wrong. Its how they did it. 

They didn't jeopardize anything….. I know you think it sucks, but they were 100% legal.