Shrinking hunter numbers

[Doc]

We all have our own theories as to why hunters are dropping out, but not too many theories as to what to do about it. Most sign on to the weak attempts around special youth seasons. We throw our support around that thought and then declare that the problem is solved. I always thought that such programs are marginal at best in terms of effectiveness and instead supported more aggressive plans that in my mind would be a lot more effective. My favorite thought has always been for direct DEC involvement in public school assembly programs, and even school courses that taught outdoor activities including hunting and fishing. What a perfect way to recruit youth. Replies to that thought always involved a fair level of ridicule and comments that basically said that such a thing would never work and could never be accepted and implemented.

 

Well imagine my surprise when I picked up the outdoor section of our local paper and learned that for the past 8 years, West Virginia has been doing exactly that and with an accompanying reversal in new license sales. Instead of the 20% drop in license sales over the last decade, they recorded an increase in sales of 9% per year since the school curriculum included a hunter education class. And apparently 6 other states have since introduced legislation to do exactly the same thing because of West Virginia's demonstrated success. 

 

A little out-of-the-box thinking has been applied with real positive and provable results. 17 states have passed laws to create "apprentice hunting licenses" which allows kids supervised by a trained mentor to sample the sport before completing the required 8-12 hour hunter safety course work.

 

Other states have passed constitutional guarantees for hunting rights which essentially is a governmental endorsement of hunting.

 

But here we are in NYS patting ourselves on the back for special youth seasons and then declaring success and walking away from any further thought on the subject. There are some states that are actually addressing the problem of shrinking hunter populations and showing positive results.

[philoshop]

I agree completely! It has to be a grassroots movement, though, because we live in a state that is openly hostile to anything involving private ownership of weapons...

The traditions of hunting are increasingly 'allowed', rather than affirmed, across much of the country.

 

[NFA-ADK]

Would be kind of hard to get a hunting program installed in our schools when they have a no gun policy with zero tolerance.

 

That is about my extent with this issue, zero tolerance because our state is basically the anti hunting state.  I am more than willing to mentor but to try and get an anti-hunting state to change is a dream. 

 

I am all for a hunting/survival course in schools but it faces to much resistance from the uneducated, LMAO!!!

[Deutscher Jaeger]

My take is that we first need to get more people introduced to shooting in general.  Get them to see what happens when you hit a clay target with shot or a .22 bullet. As those newbies get used to shooting, some may transition towards hunting.  The good part is that even if they do not migrate to the hunting scene, they just might continue to use and accept firearms, which is not a bad thing in today's culture.

 

I am a NYS Hunter Educator for gun and bow and it is surprising to see what makes up my classes.  I get many parent/child participants as well as an average of 40% women in my classes.   Getting into public schools to teach any type of gun use for targets or hunting is an uphill battle for many reasons.  Local Fish and Game Clubs can be the perfect springboard for sponsoring classes.

[Elmo]

Why wait for a school program?  Why can't we do it ourselves?  If every single one of us gets at least person introduced to hunting so that they also become life long hunters, guess what?  Our numbers double.

 

I hear people say all the time.  "Take your kids hunting.  That's your responsibility as a hunter."  No...to me, that's simply your responsibility as a father/mother.

[Doewhacker]

Doc are you suggesting legislation in an already over legislated state?

Also, where would the money for this plan come from, license sales perhaps?

Sounds like a waste of money to me.

[Deutscher Jaeger]

Why wait for a school program?  Why can't we do it ourselves?  If every single one of us gets at least person introduced to hunting so that they also become life long hunters, guess what?  Our numbers double.

 

I hear people say all the time.  "Take your kids hunting.  That's your responsibility as a hunter."  No...to me, that's simply your responsibility as a father/mother.

 

I agree that parents or guardians should pass on their learned skills to their children, including shooting and hunting and fishing.  I did with my two.  The ever growing problem is that more and more parents do not shoot, hunt or fish.  How do you reach out to those? Those children will only be exposed to shooting or hunting if one of their friends, relative, or other acquaintance shows them with data and deed.    And even if you do, that does not mean they are all eager to sign up.  

 

New York State has several weekly summer camps they run every year. I teach all the hunter education classes at Camp Colby in Saranac Lake, NY for 7 weeks. This camp is for 11-13 year old. http://www.dec.ny.gov/education/1877.html

It is not a mandatory class for any camper and they need to volunteer and get their parents permission to take the class.  The class is always full!  I do my part, but NYS needs more instructors.  Do you want to volunteer?  Just go to any DEC office and sign up for the instructor course.

[ApexerER]

I think there are several things affecting the youth. I would say the number one thing is the addiction to social media and video games. My daughter just turned 11. Thank god she has no care in the world for video games but she has been begging for a phone. In contrast to the 11 year old boy that lives across the street, you never see him outside. He is always playing on the X-box or his phone. His Dad used to kick him outside to play or play basket ball or whatever else outside with him but they just split up and he is no longer there. Now, it could be sunny and 75 degrees and my daughter will ask him to play and he has no interest. Thank god my daughter still loves to play outside, we hike in the nature preserve together at least twice a week. I have taken her hunting but she gets very "bored" in the tree stand. Doesn't help that I have yet to see a deer with her with me. But she loves the outdoors and I could see her hunting one day, maybe....Although she also loves animals. I think the number two think is the continuous pounding these kids take that guns are bad. I have had my daughter out shooting the .22 a few times at the range. The way she acts you would think the gun was going to blow up in her hands. I have to try and pound in her head that the only way a gun is going to hurt you is if you are being unsafe with it.

[hunter49]

I think there are several things affecting the youth. I would say the number one thing is the addiction to social media and video games. My daughter just turned 11. Thank god she has no care in the world for video games but she has been begging for a phone. In contrast to the 11 year old boy that lives across the street, you never see him outside. He is always playing on the X-box or his phone. His Dad used to kick him outside to play or play basket ball or whatever else outside with him but they just split up and he is no longer there. Now, it could be sunny and 75 degrees and my daughter will ask him to play and he has no interest. Thank god my daughter still loves to play outside, we hike in the nature preserve together at least twice a week. I have taken her hunting but she gets very "bored" in the tree stand. Doesn't help that I have yet to see a deer with her with me. But she loves the outdoors and I could see her hunting one day, maybe....Although she also loves animals. I think the number two think is the continuous pounding these kids take that guns are bad. I have had my daughter out shooting the .22 a few times at the range. The way she acts you would think the gun was going to blow up in her hands. I have to try and pound in her head that the only way a gun is going to hurt you is if you are being unsafe with it.

  I agree with this , If you ride through a neighbor hood on a nice sunny day there are NO kids outside anymore. Every one is inside on the cell phone, computer, or x-box.(I think many are too lazy to move, jmo)  The other thing is now days without many rabbits & pheasants around, to take a kid deer or turkey hunting & not see any after 5-6 hours gets pretty boring for a kid & they think the heck with this. In my day we hunted rabbits & pheasants & got some shooting in & were rewarded with game & had a great time. I also believe now days its hard to outfit a kid to get into hunting due to the high costs of guns, ammo,  hunting clothes, & maybe having to lease land to hunt on only to find out they don't want to do it.

[A Sportsman]

I have a friend who I met through a surfcasting fishing club I belong to. About 8 years ago he expressed an interest in hunting, so I offered to show him the ropes. He got his license and away we went. 8 years later, guy is head over heals for hunting, barely fishes anymore, his kid took up hunting, they bought property, etc. When I think of my hunting accomplishments, getting that dude Involved means a hell of a lot to me. These days, I'm working on another neophyte. Last year was his first. Kid is driven and will be a hunter.

I meet a fair amount of people, particularly young guys, who definitely seem like they want to try hunting (I'm talking Long Island and even nyc kids), but they don't know where/how to begin. It's gotta be daunting if you haven't been raised up around it. A program like doc is describing would be a god send for kids like this.

What's cool is it targets kids with a genuine, motivated interest. Instead of trying to salvage (and I mean salvage in its truest form) the kids who've already pledged thier allegiance to video games, iPhones and other refuse.

[A Sportsman]

For those of us that love hunting to the core, especially deer hunters, it can be hard to introduce a new guy. There is a commitment and sacrifice. some guys don't want to dedicate the time, don't want to share their spots, etc. I get that.

In my time, I've turned down many people who've expressed interest. I guess there are certain qualities you look for, intangibles in a person. You want to be confident they will have the fortitude to stick with it, learn and become proficient on their own. And value it. Not just ride along and reap the benefits of your work.

[stoneam2006]

For those of us that love hunting to the core, especially deer hunters, it can be hard to introduce a new guy. There is a commitment and sacrifice. some guys don't want to dedicate the time, don't want to share their spots, etc. I get that.

In my time, I've turned down many people who've expressed interest. I guess there are certain qualities you look for, intangibles in a person. You want to be confident they will have the fortitude to stick with it, learn and become proficient on their own. And value it. Not just ride along and reap the benefits of your work.

That's crazy IMO I'll take anyone anytime if it gets them away from the tube....if they get real serious we will hit the range...shoot I've even offered to take class with them so they didn't have to alone....I hunt stateland and some private and I will do everything I can to get them to experience a killer either with me pulling trigger or them after the class. I want to pass this passion to as many people ass possible to help our chances in keeping seasons and regulations at bay.

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[Elmo]

I think there are several things affecting the youth. I would say the number one thing is the addiction to social media and video games. My daughter just turned 11. Thank god she has no care in the world for video games but she has been begging for a phone. In contrast to the 11 year old boy that lives across the street, you never see him outside. He is always playing on the X-box or his phone. His Dad used to kick him outside to play or play basket ball or whatever else outside with him but they just split up and he is no longer there.

 

I'm no expert but in my opinion, so many parents simply pawn their kids off to someone else or object.  As one person I know put it, she said "growing up, the television was my babysitter".  An 11 year old boy doesn't want to go outside and would rather watch TV is most likely the result of their parents finding it easier to just sit him in front of the TV rather than playing with them outside.  It is still manifested when he's 11 apparently as his dad is telling him to go outside to play rather than going outside to play with him.  A lot of the kids I've know who are active whether its with baseball or basketball, also have dads who shared those activities with them through out their lives and even still to this day.  Maybe it's a coincidence.  It's just my observation.

[G-Man]

The local school here has been doing just this with out legislation ,they even have a tv show on the outdoor channel. Maybe you have heard of it crcs outdoors.

Though the special youth seasons work to some extent they need to start at a younger age before they kids are sucked into the world of technology and sports....

[Steve D]

It is a new generation...I grew up hunting, fishing, and trapping with my Dad. It was a way of life for us and for most near us. I learned at a very young age that hunting was part of me and it was something I wanted to do the rest of my life. I have tried to get a number of young people into it and while some showed interest  more often than not they did not keep hunting for a number of reasons like lack of support from parents, peer pressure, no way to pay for it, etc. etc.

  I have two grown daughters and neither one of them showed any interest in hunting or any outdoor activities as much as I tried. They were exposed their whole life and to this day don't hunt, fish, x-country ski, or camp. Camping for them is in a Hotel.

 I mentored a few young people through the DEC mentoring program and only one hunts to this day. Most found other things they liked to do better or just do not have the drive to pursue it.

[Rick Howard]

Sometimes it does not feel like numbers are declining.  I see more hunters now that I did 20 years ago.  I hunt a lot of public land for deer and turkey.  If we have less hunters now than more are taking advantage of public ground.  Which leads me to my theory.  At least for NYS, I am of the opinion a large part of the issue for folks is having a place to hunt.  With the growing trends of posted property and leasing it is getting harder and harder to gain access to hunting ground. New hunters are disappointed with the amount they share the woods.  Many can not afford a lease to hunt.  Asking a perfect stranger to hunt their land for free use to be a pretty common practice.  Now it is an awkward experience.  A good solution would be to make more public land.  I for one would be willing to pay a little extra cash every year in my licensee fees if it meant a substantial gain in public hunting grounds.    

 

Here is a funny thing.  Most hunters want more seclusion and less sharing of space in hunting.... So....  it is not self serving for most folks to promote it.  Start making more public land and have enough space for everyone.  It wont hurt private leasing.  Folks will still pay for the exclusive access and rights to manage how they desire. 

 

For the record I have no issue with land leasing.  I understand it completely.  That is not what this is about.

 

 

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[Doc]

Doc are you suggesting legislation in an already over legislated state?

Also, where would the money for this plan come from, license sales perhaps?

Sounds like a waste of money to me.

I am suggesting that we get off our duffs and begin some pro-active, aggressive, activity that actually makes sense and has a proven track record, and stop merely giving lip-service to our efforts to revitalize hunting as a legitimate activity. I am not interested in continuing to let the anti-hunters set the education agendas. Does it take legislation to do this. It sure does. Or we can sit back and continue to watch hunting slide into the toilet because we are more concerned with throwing stones at successful programs than really addressing the problems and solving them. As for financial soundness, I have to wonder just what the costs will be when deer populations become totally uncontrolled because hunting has lost all legitimacy and acceptance. The drop in West Virginia's hunting license revenues tallied up to 1.5 million dollars because of that 20% decrease in hunters over that decade surveyed. I'll bet they have no problem justifying the expenditure as their license sales continue to increase. 

[Doc]

By the way, I finally found the article on the net. The address is http://www.mpnnow.com/article/20160404/SPORTS/160409803

[maytom]

My dad was never a hunter, so as I got older and got interested in hunting, my uncle and my cousin took me out. So if parents today aren't into hunting for what ever reasons, they most likely won't be letting their kids be exposed to it as well. Another thing I see is most of the kids today are highly into computer games and their cell phones. Maybe a NRA class in school would educate kids on this topic?

[Uptown Redneck]

Maybe a NRA class in school would educate kids on this topic?

As a hunter, gun owner and someone who takes his daughter shooting I would never allow her to be exposed to the self-serving propaganda of the NRA. And being the NRA is disliked by a large number of people I'm sure their presence in schools would not be tolerated.

[Elmo]

Some groups (and I'm not saying the NRA in particular, just in general) are more interested in their cause then they are of your child.

[Borngeechee]

The way that NY vilify guns, it's no wonder that new Hunters are sparse. My wife is a perfect example of the lower NY way of thinking. She gets mad when I clean my rifles around the kids and she hates the fact that I'm buying my daughter a single shot 22lr when she turns 12. They teach you to believe that any and all guns are murder weapons with no other purpose.

Geechee born and Geechee bred

[Doc]

The way that NY vilify guns, it's no wonder that new Hunters are sparse. My wife is a perfect example of the lower NY way of thinking. She gets mad when I clean my rifles around the kids and she hates the fact that I'm buying my daughter a single shot 22lr when she turns 12. They teach you to believe that any and all guns are murder weapons with no other purpose.

Geechee born and Geechee bred

That is why we need some form of official early intervention in the schools by responsible agencies to offset those notions.

[NFA-ADK]

Can you say zero tolerance?  Can you really grasp what they are saying?  No gun is safe, ever!  All of mine must be defective because even when I want to kill something it does not always happen, guess I should turn them in because they miss sometimes. 

 

How about we get law enforcement to drop all guns, I mean if it is not safe in schools why should the general public be subjected to these devastating weapons of destruction?  And if the safe act takes away those horrible guns why should the public be subjected to them by law enforcement if they are so bad? 

 

Can you say double standard?  Ok for the Gov and the law to use these horrible weapons just as long as the public does not have them?  Freedom never felt so restricted! 

 

Sorry for going off topic! 

[stoneam2006]

We actually have a skeet shooting team and a archery team at a few local schools...Guy at work said his kids grades been way better bc he loves to shoot and can't with bad grades

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