copper is killing me....

[eagle rider]

I had a bunch of Federal Fusion Ammo to use to get on paper with a 1968 BAR. All told maybe I fired 8 rds. This stuff guilds barrels! So now the fun part... getting the copper out. I bought a bottle of Tetra Copper Solvent Gel and followed the instructions, it didn't even touch it. After calling Tetra I came to find out there are a bunch of tricks to getting this stuff to work. First off, it won't etch the barrel because the ammonia content isn't over 5%. As such it can be left in the barrel to work longer. Also, one treatment won't do, it has to be done several times to clean the copper out of the lands and grooves. 

Here is what they told me:
1- start with a dry barrel and run a stiff brush through several times in an attempt to mechanically loosen some of the copper.
2- Send a wet patch with any solvent through and dry with patches thoroughly. This to draw out anything loosened up when the barrel was brushed.
3- Saturate a bore mop with the copper solvent throughly and push it through the barrel, repeat this step a bunch of times and really load the barrel with the stuff. Its a gel so it will just sit in the barrel and act on the copper. I let the rifle sit about two or three hours before I worked on it again.
4- go to a nylon brush and vigorously run it through the barrel.  Then dry patch using an aluminum or plastic jag until the barrel is so dry you get a lot of resistance pushing the patches through. This does two things, it puts a material into the barrel that won't react with any of the remming gel and it assures all of the gel is gone.
5- Next flush with your favorite solvent, I use #9. soak patches and run them through to ensure you got all of the gel washed out. 
6- Do the same in the chamber with a nylon chamber brush incase any gel leaked back in there. 
7- Again dry patch.
8- Finally, send an oiled patch through using your favorite oil. I use Hopes T3.

In my case I got the vast majority of the copper out but will probably wait a week and rettempt as there was still a little streaking near the muzzle.

Last thing (and sorry this is so long). I do think Federal changed the process in producing the Fusion jackets. These new ones seem to de-anneal more often in the barrel (had it happen with a model 700 custom build as well). The jackets seem Core Lockt soft now. 

Anyway, I hope this is use for some who have been plagued with a copper  fouled bore. My story pertains only to the Tetra gel, make sure you seek out the right info for whatever copper solvent you settle on.

[dbHunterNY]

bought some Fusions maybe a handful of years back.  don't seem to have much of a problem in my a-bolt.  only use tetra's grease.  i think I've used outers, Hoppe's, and TC solvents to get copper out just fine.  I've always heard to never run a dry brush through.  never though to do it but I've got Bore-tech nylon brushes but still.  I'm wrapping brush with a cotton patch, unless it's to run something through the barrel to let soak.

 

that gun and ammo combo sounds like work. maybe run a little lapping compound through it?  any problems with other ammo?

 

[eagle rider]

No problems at all with other stuff,... I don't get it maybe it was just a bad lot????  Either way getting the copper out isn't easy.

[airedale]

Copper fouling is the main drawback of solid copper bullets it affects accuracy in a big way once the barrel gets plated, there is no getting around the fact that it can be very difficult to remove. When it gets bad it will take a lot of scrubbing with dedicated solvents to remove it. If you do a lot of shooting with copper bullets be prepared for a good workout. Barnes, Sweets and Bore Tech make solvents especially for copper fouling removal.

 

Al

Edited July 6, 2016 by airedale

[eagle rider]

I called Barnes today, they said their Vortex TTSX isn't a problem, its hard as nails.  Their old X bullet was an issue because it was way softer. They said likely there was copper deposits deeper in the barrel and that the hard body of the TTSX  dragged it up through the lands.  

 

Anyway I've been three days with the Tetra and I still can't get all of it.  I've gooed up a bore mop and got my basement smelling like a meyth lab! Went through a whole bag of 30 cal patches.  I might try Sweets, it has a higher ammonia content, the guy at Barnes recommended it.  

[airedale]

When I tried copper bullets I ran into the same problems with plating the bore. If I just sighted in and used them for hunting they would be OK. But in addition to hunting I am a reloader and a shooter, I burn ammo in pretty large quantities in my guns. Between the bore scrubbing  and those solvents it was a little much for me in addition to the substantially higher prices. 

 

Al

[Dinsdale]

 

 

 I might try Sweets, it has a higher ammonia content, the guy at Barnes recommended it.  

 

 

I use Sweets.

 

Recommended by a 'smith that built a very nice rifle for me.

 

Nothing to be scared of, just don't want it to sit for extended period and looks like you know that.

 

I use some general cleaner to get rid of powder/carbon; Sweets, and then more general cleaner to remove that......just a more aggressive chemical then what you are using.

 

If the bore was rough and the copper has filled all the micro sized pores and scratches, you may be pulling blue patches for a long time.

[Lawdwaz]

I use Sweet's too.   I find that a LOOSE fitting patch works better to soak down the barrel for the initial run of the stuff.  Then I'll go with a bit tighter fitting patches as I go.  The last couple inches of the barrel seem to be the toughest to get out all the copper.  Sometimes I just leave the patch on the jag right at the end of the barrel for ten minutes, then scrub a dub dub away.

 

Montana X Treme has worked good also.

[eagle rider]

update and good news.  As far as I can tell there is only one lands effected.  About 1/8" long and deep looking copper.  Douched it up again and nylon brushed it in.  Hopefully It will come out when I start running patches down in about two hours or so.  

Edited July 8, 2016 by eagle rider

[dbHunterNY]

I use Sweet's too.   I find that a LOOSE fitting patch works better to soak down the barrel for the initial run of the stuff.  Then I'll go with a bit tighter fitting patches as I go.  The last couple inches of the barrel seem to be the toughest to get out all the copper.  Sometimes I just leave the patch on the jag right at the end of the barrel for ten minutes, then scrub a dub dub away.

 

Montana X Treme has worked good also.

 

went to a big show a while back and stopped at Montana XTreme booth.  seemed like good stuff.  Butch's Bore Shine is another one well liked.

[Jaeger]

I use Montana Extreme cleaner, if the copper deposits are real bad I go to their 50 BMG copper killer or Barnes CR-10 (remember barnes bullets are primarily all copper alloy).

[eagle rider]

still got one spot that I just can't get out on a single spot in the barrel.  Gonna try some 0000 steel wool on a bore mop with copper solvent.  Its a small spot right under the front sight.  Getting desperate.  

[sbuff]

X2 on Montana extreme product's,all I use along with butches

[eagle rider]

I was actually able to get the tip of an offset dental pick on it.  I was steel to steel so I didn't apply any real pressure that would harm the rifling.  The spot does not feel rough like a rusty spot would and it is white in color when I shine a bore light on it compared to the silvery black of the rest of the inside of the bore.  I have no clue what it is.  The accuracy on the rifle is awesome.  I don't think its pitting.  Maybe a tool mark from 1968 when the rifling was cut?  Whatever it is it seems to be part of the steel.  I don't know how else to explain it, but I don't think there is any copper on that spot or in the barrel elsewhere.  I pulled on the spot with the pick inside the groove and on the lands side of it as well.  The spot is both in the groove and up on the land.  I am totally baffled.  After I was done I solvent cleaned, dried and oiled the bore again. Any ideas on this????

[eagle rider]

So here is a quick update.  Went to the range today with the BAR, its grouping consistent and carries from 1" to .5" depending on how well I'm doing what I have to.  The range was a bit crowded today so concentration was in short supply on my part.  The bore fouled again, not as bad this time.  #9'd it for a couple of hours and pushed two dry blue patches through.  Using the Tetra again now, I mopped that goop in about an hour ago.  I'll start scrubbing it through tonight.  I'm letting it sit for a few hours more.

[Jaeger]

If you reload, you may want to try the bullet type bore lapping kits that let you load progressively harsher grit bullets until you get things smoothed out.  Midway carries them, worked for a rough bore I had in a 6.5x55 '96 mauser.

[eagle rider]

tried the Montana tonight.  Left it in for four hours,.... pulled clan patches through, guess I'm okay????  

[the blur]

On ‎7‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 5:20 PM, eagle rider said:

So here is a quick update.  Went to the range today with the BAR, its grouping consistent and carries from 1" to .5" depending on how well I'm doing what I have to.  The range was a bit crowded today so concentration was in short supply on my part.  The bore fouled again, not as bad this time.  #9'd it for a couple of hours and pushed two dry blue patches through.  Using the Tetra again now, I mopped that goop in about an hour ago.  I'll start scrubbing it through tonight.  I'm letting it sit for a few hours more.

I also have a BAR, that strings, 3" groups at best.   I'm hesitant to clean it because it's done from the front.    Where are you on Long Island??  Maybe you can show me how to clean a BAR .

[eagle rider]

I also have a BAR, that strings, 3" groups at best.   I'm hesitant to clean it because it's done from the front.    Where are you on Long Island??  Maybe you can show me how to clean a BAR .

Smithtown. PM me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wildcat junkie]

Nothing works as good as this. No scrubbing either.

 

Edited September 28, 2016 by wildcat junkie

[chas0218]

I use the Gun slick copper Klenz, works great and yes I run it thru about 3 times and no more dirty copper. I also shoot jacketed bullets, not sure if the jackets are harder than a solid copper. You might be having a little bit of an issue because you gun is older and the lands and grooves are sharper than more modern day guns, this also depends on the amount it has been shot.

http://www.gunslick.com/products/chemicals/cleaners_degreasers/copperklenz.aspx

I also use this one called Ultra Klenz.

http://www.gunslick.com/products/chemicals/cleaners_degreasers/ultraklenz.aspx

Edited September 28, 2016 by chas0218

[fasteddie]

eagle rider - A lot of rifles don't shoot well with a clean barrel ..... what are you going to do ? 

[WNYBuckHunter]

Federal Fusion is not solid copper ammo. Its jacketed lead. I use it and just clean my rifle with the Hoppes copper solvent and have no issues.