general comment about Xbow

[stoneam2006]

i won't argue that fact but nor could you it is still way, way less then during gun season. And this directly a result of the difficulty, effort and "woodsman" skills needed to successfully take a deer with a bow. When you remove the level of difficulty you remove the level of character now sharing the woods.

The only difficulty being removed is drawing and holding...the rest is same...rang and everything

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[brownclown]

5 minutes ago, stoneam2006 said:

 

The only difficulty being removed is drawing and holding...the rest is same...rang and everything

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if that were true the xbow wouldn't even exist. Im sorry but that is laughable. To be able draw on and  take a deer successfully from a stand at 40yrds is significantly more challenging.

[stoneam2006]

if that were true the xbow wouldn't even exist. Im sorry but that is laughable. To be able draw on and  take a deer successfully from a stand at 40yrds is significantly more challenging.

How? Drawing on a deer yes I agree....name one other factor that makes it harder with compound

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[grampy]

40 minutes ago, brownclown said:

i wasn't the one being addressed but i believe he was referring to a type of person. AKA slob hunters, orange army whatever you want to call them. All the bow hunters keep being called selfish because we don't want the competition. In my case and i believe in most others it is not the competition it is the "type" of hunter it will introduce. For the most part to successfully bow hunt year after year you need to be "woodsman", dedicated, hardworking, persistent, etc. etc.  When you make it too easy, typically the people that choose the easy way in all there life, are the people that will now be in the woods during what can be a challenging time to hunt. I wouldn't (and believe most who are against inclusion) have any problem with full inclusion if these people were "woodsman". As of now i have to remove my cams prior to every gun season. i have no problems with theft during bow. Now this could be just a numbers thing but i also believe it is an attitude thing. You can call it "elitism" but i find that term complementary. I wish more of the general hunting community had the high level values i see most bow hunters having.

In my estimation, these "slob" hunters that are not "woodsmen" will have a very hard time, getting deer within the effective range of a compound or crossbow. And a lot of times, even a center fire rifle! Perhaps their stumbling and bumbling will even bump a nice buck to an "elite" hunter? I've had it happen to me. Deer do not have much to fear from the type of hunters you describe. But just remember too, that we were all inexperienced hunters at some point.

[WNYBuckHunter]

13 minutes ago, brownclown said:

i won't argue that fact but nor could you it is still way, way less then during gun season. And this directly a result of the difficulty, effort and "woodsman" skills needed to successfully take a deer with a bow. When you remove the level of difficulty you remove the level of character now sharing the woods.

I would honestly say that there are just as many if you look at percentages. This is based on what I have seen, delt with, etc over a span of 25 years.

[WNYBuckHunter]

28 minutes ago, brownclown said:

if that were true the xbow wouldn't even exist. Im sorry but that is laughable. To be able draw on and  take a deer successfully from a stand at 40yrds is significantly more challenging.

Crossbows were a weapon of war when they were invented, just like vertical bows. They were used differently in battle. When it comes to hunting, they have virtually the same effective range as a vertical bow does. Each of the two has its up sides and down sides vs the other.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

1 hour ago, brownclown said:

if that were true the xbow wouldn't even exist. Im sorry but that is laughable. To be able draw on and  take a deer successfully from a stand at 40yrds is significantly more challenging.

Let me toss this out there. Those worried about the devastating results this would have on the herd and populations. 

I added these numbers up quick becasue they have them under so many categories (anyone feel free to correct if I missed something)

for the 2014-2015 season. 

Bow license sales. 205,676. 

Bow total take 37,697

Success % 18%

 

Now assuming all the rest of the season take is gun ML and cross bow. 

License sales. 590,288

Total remaining take  165,276

Success % 27

Now toss all these hunters that "lack the woodsman ship" to hunt with a bow in there with  crossbow. Would be vastly more difficult than, say,  a firearm, right? After all they don't have the skills. Their success rate would have to go down and they are only 9% better than the bowhunters and  they have a gun. And let's remember that these expert bow hunters that only get 18% success are also gun hunting for the most part and given their extreme abilities they must be taking the bulk of the deer when they have a gun in their hands? right? what am I missing?

 

Edited November 3, 2016 by Culvercreek hunt club

[stoneam2006]

Let me toss this out there. Those worried about the devastating results this would have on the herd and populations. 
I added these numbers up quick becasue they have them under so many categories (anyone feel free to correct if I missed something)
for the 2014-2015 season. 
Bow license sales. 205,676. 
Bow total take 37,697
Success % 18%
 
Now assuming all the rest of the season take is gun ML and cross bow. 
License sales. 590,288
Total remaining take  165,276
Success % 27
Now toss all these hunters that "lack the woodsman ship" to hunt with a bow in there with  crossbow. Would be vastly more difficult than, say,  a firearm, right? After all they don't have the skills. Their success rate would have to go down and they are only 9% better than the bowhunters and  they have a gun. And let's remember that these expert bow hunters that only get 18% success are also gun hunting for the most part and given their extreme abilities they must be taking the bulk of the deer when they have a gun in their hands? right? what am I missing?
 

Magic....your missing the magic all the nay sayers think xbows produce

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[SteveB]

1 hour ago, brownclown said:

if that were true the xbow wouldn't even exist. Im sorry but that is laughable. To be able draw on and  take a deer successfully from a stand at 40yrds is significantly more challenging.

Your skill level, experience and abilities may not be the same as others. Never found it that difficult to draw on a deer if the opportunity is right - especially in a treestand - even less in a blind. Add that most can draw and hold a compound for a minute or more and still make a shot lessens your very weak point. You can also draw a 80% letoff compound and rest the lower limb on your leg sitting and hold even longer.

Never been in the woods with a crossbow, but they still need to get maneuvered into position for a shot. Deer can come to my stands from 270 deg and are constantly moving. Chance of one posing in the exact position I was resting a crossbow on my sticks at would be just above zero. Can only imagine the movement needed to position for a shot behind all the while checking the 20 some inches of side clearance is there. 

Edited November 3, 2016 by SteveB

[stoneam2006]

Your skill level, experience and abilities may not be the same as others. Never found it that difficult to draw on a deer if the opportunity is right - especially in a treestand - even less in a blind. Add that most can draw and hold a compound for a minute or more and still make a shot lessens your very weak point. You can also draw a 80% letoff compound and rest the lower limb on your leg sitting and hold even longer.
Never been in the woods with a crossbow, but they still need to get maneuvered into position for a shot. Deer can come to my stands from 270 deg and are constantly moving. Chance of one posing in the exact position I was resting a crossbow on my sticks at would be just above zero. Can only imagine the movement needed to position for a shot behind all the while checking the 20 some inches of side clearance is there. 

We'll said not to mention not being able to hold at shoulder for minutes on end if no rest was availible. Or the second shot if first shot went wide and deer stays put...which isn't going to happen with xbow bc they are so loud.

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[Jeremy K]

3 hours ago, eagle rider said:

Tough to spray something that you can only load and fire manually.....

Not so much the spraying part ,just their general hack mentality towards hunting.

[thphtm]

On 10/12/2016 at 10:00 AM, stoneam2006 said:

 

I use a balloon no tape needed

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Yep, been doing this for the past 50+ years

[WNYBuckHunter]

3 hours ago, SteveB said:

Your skill level, experience and abilities may not be the same as others. Never found it that difficult to draw on a deer if the opportunity is right - especially in a treestand - even less in a blind. Add that most can draw and hold a compound for a minute or more and still make a shot lessens your very weak point. You can also draw a 80% letoff compound and rest the lower limb on your leg sitting and hold even longer.

Never been in the woods with a crossbow, but they still need to get maneuvered into position for a shot. Deer can come to my stands from 270 deg and are constantly moving. Chance of one posing in the exact position I was resting a crossbow on my sticks at would be just above zero. Can only imagine the movement needed to position for a shot behind all the while checking the 20 some inches of side clearance is there. 

I have gotten busted plenty of times maneuvering my gun during gun season by deer that are further away than they would have to be for a crossbow. Generally speaking, guns are easier to maneuver than a crossbow, which has the limbs sticking out, etc.

[eagle rider]

The implement of the harvest is all secondary. It's what we do leading up and after the trigger is pulled that matter more about slobbery than anything else. I can teach a 10 year old to put x hairs on a shoulder and squeeze a trigger. He/she will be just as lethal as any of us. Facts are facts. We are all, hopefully, ethical sportsman regardless of the method of legal harvest used on game. Everything and I mean everything has some advantages and some disadvantages. It's what matters more to you as a personal choice for that.


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[Fletch]

I have a bit different take. I like it like it is now. I get to hunt early with my compound, the last two weeks with my crossbow, shotgun, rifle and then 9 days of ML. I like hunting with all and the goal shoot one with each in the year!
I would make one change though. Youth should be able to use cross bow all bow season. Youth are able to hunt with bow at 12. My son was not big enough to pull enough weight. That combined with why start youth with the absolute hardest and most likely to fail implement? I would of liked to start him with a crossbow and work up to the gun and compound.

Otherwise I am fine the way it is. I really don't care what the guy down the street uses. If legal good for him/ her.


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[WNYBuckHunter]

I can see what you are saying. The beauty of full inclusion would be that you can choose to hunt with whichever bow you want for the whole bow season. Just like you can hunt with a muzzle loader or pistol during gun season. Both of which I used to do and was very successful doing it. When full inclusion comes around, Ill still be out there with my vertical bow. I will probably buy a crossbow at some point, but it wont be the only thing I use.

[sits in trees]

On 11/3/2016 at 7:16 AM, Doc said:

That same exact argument would be just as valid if you were talking full inclusion of rifles in bowseason, wouldn't it? A lot of the pro-crossbow arguments hold true for inclusion of firearms.

Few years ago I witnessed a hunter hand a compound bow to the Bow Mechanic at Gander and he said get this all tuned up for me I'm hunting tomorrow. Well for me that was bad enough but what was worse was it was the afternoon before opening day. So the argument that you will have unprepared hunters out there because of crossbow inclusion doesn't hold much sauce with me.