Antler restrictions

[chrisw]

Sounds to me like he's never shot an older buck in full rut...I get queasy just cutting open the vacuum seal on that bow buck from last year..I think I'd have an easier time drinking the swamp water he was living in over his flesh...

Sounds to me like you're assuming something about someone based on no knowledge of said person, the same thing you jump down everyone else's throat for when they do the same to you
.. don't assume, god forbid you might have to admit you're wrong in the future.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

[phade]

2 hours ago, growalot said:

Have you seen picture of the Seneca deer displaying the things you just mentioned? Every living creature carries and eventually displays one recessive trait or another..making us all genetically inferior. I can also look at the predation  like this...They have now formed superior camo protection from predators being  Northern snow belt born...for in deep snows where coyotes can walk above the snow pack and they can not,when coyote do their biggest share of killing of white tail exhausted from the rut or young and snow bound,as it were..They have a perfect fur to blend in...They are really only more vulnerable to us visually speaking...points of view.

Yes. Even the people trying to save them acknowledge it - including the director of the Nature Conservancy. Literally, he uses the term "genetically inferior to regular whitetail deer," when explaining the white deer.

Here's some more insight from him:

Most white deer exhibit a condition commonly known as leucism, a recessive genetic trait found in about one percent of all white-tails. As with albinism, leucism can be found in nearly all mammals.

Leucistic animals lack pigment over all or part of their bodies Leucistic deer can be varying levels of white – some contain white splotches, some are half brown and half white, some appear nearly all white. Mixed brown and white animals are often known as piebald deer. (Confusingly, many deer biologists and hunters use “piebald” to describe all leucistic deer).

The nose is black, as in a “normal” deer, and eyesight is not usually affected.

Leucistic deer generally can survive longer than albino deer. Still, they are not very well camouflaged in the forest, making them stand out to predators. In a habitat with its large predators still present, a leucistic deer’s chances of survival are slim.

As wildlife photographer and deer expert Leonard Lee Rue III notes in his recent book Whitetail Savvy (a must-read for deer nerds), “Many piebald deer also exhibit hunched backs, bowed legs, and short, rounded noses.”

Let’s be clear, here. A leucistic or piebald white-tailed deer is a genetic anomaly. It would always be susceptible to predators, whether or not it was pursued by humans. The Seneca Army Depot is known for the white deer but there are actually many other reasons to protect it. These deer may indeed have cultural and historical value to humans, but let’s not confuse them with endangered species.

I too have been fascinated by these deer since hearing those stories by my grandpa. A white deer intrigues me as a student of deer. They’re fascinating to observe and ponder. But, in this era of over-abundant whitetails – when we desperately need scientific management to protect our forests and biodiversity – we must move beyond the idea of the white deer as a sacred beast.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

2 hours ago, moog5050 said:

I am just waiting for someone to concede and admit the other side is right.  Isn't that how these threads usually end, by convincing the other side with the brilliant irrefutable facts and rationale?   Lol

i am going to go shoot a button and monster buck tomorrow so everyone (or no one but me) is happy. 

I am local tomorrow. Shotgun...oh yeah. I may go for a super slam. The entire family. buck doe and the two fawns. 

[moog5050]

7 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I am local tomorrow. Shotgun...oh yeah. I may go for a super slam. The entire family. buck doe and the two fawns. 

Ha.  You just upped the ante.  I am in.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

5 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

Ha.  You just upped the ante.  I am in.

You bastard. I wasn't going to respond to this thread anymore but you suckered me in. 

[moog5050]

5 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

You bastard. I wasn't going to respond to this thread anymore but you suckered me in. 

I like to have the last word, like everyone else I guess.   Lol.  Your turn. 

Good luck tomorrow.  Probably won't see a thing myself but if I do, I will be doing some herd management.  

[growalot]

I am going to have to look for the pictures of these deformities in THIS PARTICULAR HERD...because I have yet to see any... As far as what you conveyed from the head of the conservancy. I Have to note that that is the printed officical stance that can be read and repeated from many sources. Forgive my scepticism concerning THIS herd...for I can ,as I'm sure you could as well, hundreds of I stances where the " Scientific community " had to back peddle rethink their stance on things. Recessive genes are as I said a common thing..not necessarily a bad or " messed up" thing ie.. perfect eye sight in humans..product of a recessive gene..look up recessive genes in humans if you want an eye opener on the subject.

[phade]

I am going to have to look for the pictures of these deformities in THIS PARTICULAR HERD...because I have yet to see any... As far as what you conveyed from the head of the conservancy. I Have to note that that is the printed officical stance that can be read and repeated from many sources. Forgive my scepticism concerning THIS herd...for I can ,as I'm sure you could as well, hundreds of I stances where the " Scientific community " had to back peddle rethink their stance on things. Recessive genes are as I said a common thing..not necessarily a bad or " messed up" thing ie.. perfect eye sight in humans..product of a recessive gene..look up recessive genes in humans if you want an eye opener on the subject.

I don't know why I even bother.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[growalot]

Me too!

[gjs4]

I feel like the number of skilled hunters on this forum is the same as those blessed with culinary skill... Apparently the rutty grizzly old bucks I've eaten were mixed up with trended fawns. Lol. Why not just brag about The ease of shooting a large deer and that's why you shoot small ones?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[stubby68]

             If you need to have specials skills to cook the meat in a way that makes it edible then there is something wrong with the meat. More then salt and pepper and you are just adding flavors you want and not enjoying the flavor of the meat it's self. Heck truly good meat needs nothing but heat to make it a joy to eat. 

[stubby68]

               All but one were aged by biologist as being 3 1/2 or older. no special skills needed. None of them were targeted. They were known to be there and happened to be the only buck seen as season came to a clIse.They were shot to make sure a tag did not go unused. None are huge yet they are all what most hunters look for when wanting older bigger bucks. Shot your old nasty bucks and continue to add special flavors to them all you want. I will stick to eating nice tasty tender meat.

4 hours ago, gjs4 said:

I feel like the number of skilled hunters on this forum is the same as those blessed with culinary skill... Apparently the rutty grizzly old bucks I've eaten were mixed up with trended fawns. Lol. Why not just brag about The ease of shooting a large deer and that's why you shoot small ones?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[gjs4]

Venison tastes like venison, not another red meat. If they're not tender you can't butcher or cook.

Maybe a 3 yo or two in there- bunch of 2 yos- 14 in dog years, right? Did I mention I have a biology degree and aged deer for the state too?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[stubby68]

14 hours ago, gjs4 said:

Venison tastes like venison, not another red meat. If they're not tender you can't butcher or cook.

Maybe a 3 yo or two in there- bunch of 2 yos- 14 in dog years, right? Did I mention I have a biology degree and aged deer for the state too?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

              Must be in the past tense because you sucked at it? Good degree if you can age them better by a picture then the state biolgest who had them in his hands and took there bottom jaws. You probably use to be a gourmetc chef too right? Venison does not taste the same from all deer just as beef does not taste the same from all cattle.

Edited December 5, 2016 by stubby68
Miss spell

[chas0218]

On 12/2/2016 at 5:32 PM, growalot said:

I am going to have to look for the pictures of these deformities in THIS PARTICULAR HERD...because I have yet to see any... As far as what you conveyed from the head of the conservancy. I Have to note that that is the printed officical stance that can be read and repeated from many sources. Forgive my scepticism concerning THIS herd...for I can ,as I'm sure you could as well, hundreds of I stances where the " Scientific community " had to back peddle rethink their stance on things. Recessive genes are as I said a common thing..not necessarily a bad or " messed up" thing ie.. perfect eye sight in humans..product of a recessive gene..look up recessive genes in humans if you want an eye opener on the subject.

I don't think you'll need to look hard. 

[chas0218]

On 12/3/2016 at 11:33 PM, stubby68 said:

               All but one were aged by biologist as being 3 1/2 or older. no special skills needed. None of them were targeted. They were known to be there and happened to be the only buck seen as season came to a clIse.They were shot to make sure a tag did not go unused. None are huge yet they are all what most hunters look for when wanting older bigger bucks. Shot your old nasty bucks and continue to add special flavors to them all you want. I will stick to eating nice tasty tender meat.

 

Nice deer, I'll post up the cookbook I use. No special meat flavoring just fresh ingredients and good recipes. I made a nice casserole the other night pretty easy and didn't take long. Only reason I try different recipes is because meatloaf monday gets old all winter.

[stubby68]

12 hours ago, chas0218 said:

Nice deer, I'll post up the cookbook I use. No special meat flavoring just fresh ingredients and good recipes. I made a nice casserole the other night pretty easy and didn't take long. Only reason I try different recipes is because meatloaf monday gets old all winter.

      Thanks. I'm willing to try anything . post it or send in pm I will try some.

[growalot]

CHAS , IF you have a link for something or have seen ,in this Senca herd, please post it for me. I have searched using every word combo I could think of . Nothing has come up. Any help would be appreclated,as I stated in another thread.

[moog5050]

On ‎12‎/‎3‎/‎2016 at 11:33 PM, stubby68 said:

               All but one were aged by biologist as being 3 1/2 or older. no special skills needed. None of them were targeted. They were known to be there and happened to be the only buck seen as season came to a clIse.They were shot to make sure a tag did not go unused. None are huge yet they are all what most hunters look for when wanting older bigger bucks. Shot your old nasty bucks and continue to add special flavors to them all you want. I will stick to eating nice tasty tender meat.

 

Considering that you prefer to shoot younger deer and are not a trophy hunter (in fact prefer young bucks), why keep the photos (or the head and cape)?  Do you take photos of the little guys you target?  Are these your bucks or bucks from your group?  Serious questions.  Seems odd that someone that is so anti-trophy hunting keeps photos of the bigger bucks that they had no choice but to shoot so as not to waste a tag.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

16 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

Considering that you prefer to shoot younger deer and are not a trophy hunter (in fact prefer young bucks), why keep the photos (or the head and cape)?  Do you take photos of the little guys you target?  Are these your bucks or bucks from your group?  Serious questions.  Seems odd that someone that is so anti-trophy hunting keeps photos of the bigger bucks that they had no choice but to shoot so as not to waste a tag.

Bingo!   Some of these pics were put up in the past on another post about bigger deer i believe!

[chrisw]

Wonder if he has any shoulder mounts or Euro's?... That buck in the box is definitely caped out. I was going g to bring up the very thing mentioned above, if he's so anti trophy and gives away all antlers then why does he have so many pictures? I also find it hard to believe that these were the only bucks he could find to fill a buck tag on, in areas I hunt I'd see 15 little bucks before something of those deer's caliber. I will advise, debating with him is a lost cause....

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

[Buckstopshere]

6 hours ago, chas0218 said:

Nice deer, I'll post up the cookbook I use. No special meat flavoring just fresh ingredients and good recipes. I made a nice casserole the other night pretty easy and didn't take long. Only reason I try different recipes is because meatloaf monday gets old all winter.

Nice bucks...and that is sincere! But they are junkyard bucks...I love the one on the tailgate with the busted up left beam...my kind of Western NY buck! Even the short-tined buck with the stunted G2 and G3 on the right beam is a good one to get out of the gene pool. Beautiful 10 pt. I have never seen one with such elegant slender tines. A lover not a fighter!  What did he score? I bet low for a 10! Unique. A beauty. And three nice 8's. I would be happy to shoot any of them because even if they had more age, they probably wouldn't amount to much. They were about all they would be.

[Trial153]

Nice bucks...and that is sincere! But they are junkyard bucks...I love the one on the tailgate with the busted up left beam...my kind of Western NY buck! Even the short-tined buck with the stunted G2 and G3 on the right beam is a good one to get out of the gene pool. Beautiful 10 pt. I have never seen one with such elegant slender tines. A lover not a fighter!  What did he score? I bet low for a 10! Unique. A beauty. And three nice 8's. I would be happy to shoot any of them because even if they had more age, they probably wouldn't amount to much. They were about all they would be.

He was doing his part to prevent high grading .....

[gjs4]

              Must be in the past tense because you sucked at it? Good degree if you can age them better by a picture then the state biolgest who had them in his hands and took there bottom jaws. You probably use to be a gourmetc chef too right? Venison does not taste the same from all deer just as beef does not taste the same from all cattle.

Gr8 pointz. Ewe shod me the lite.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dbHunterNY]

I'm a little confused by this... I don't recall ever stating I cared about antler size... I'm more of a herd management kind of fellow than "everything needs to be 180 inches" and I believe maturity is one of the answers.

Sorry. It was sarcasm. Most hunters are more than happy with age and whatever associated antler size comes with it.