Poaching Legislation Almost Passed!

[dbHunterNY]

Bills out right now to amend current environmental conservation law, increasing fines for shooting deer out of season or basically jacking them at night.  NYS assembly A556 and NYS senate S387.  the bills were reintroduced from last session where it almost made it to the senate floor to complete pass, but simply ran out of time.  It already passed in the assembly (again) but seems to be stalling in the senate (again).  to date counting all sessions it's only gotten a single no vote.  it's in the senate environmental committee now.  

O'Mara is the chair to get it out of committee.  Feel free to call his office to show your support 518-455-2091 (albany office) and 607-735-9671 (local office).  Lets get this passed before hunting season.  Screw a poacher by telling friends.

[DirtTime]

Just read this, looks good on paper. One of biggest issues with the fines for poaching any animal be it trapping or shooting are the judges. One judge might pass a max penalty, while the next might just do a "Case Dismissed" verdict.

Will make the calls in the morning. 

[dbHunterNY]

Thank you for calling. I've yet to hear of an actual event where a judge has done that. Only rumors. No worries though. Remind them theyre elected and spread the word it happened and it won't happen again. Especially since we're talking local judges. Word travels quick and bad PR is not something that wins local elections.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Rebel Darling]

db:

I think you said - on another thread - you wanted a vote tally from last year on the Senate bill.  This is the committee vote from Senate EnCon:

 

Bill Number: SB 4727 (NY-15R) Caption: By Robach, Joseph E.. Relates to the illegal taking of deer. Vote: S- 7501 First report Date: 06/01/16

AYES - 12

Addabbo, Jr., Joseph P.(D); Avella, Tony(D); Espaillat, Adriano(D); Funke, Rich(R); Hoylman, Brad M.(D); Kaminsky, Todd(D); LaValle, Kenneth P.(R); Latimer, George S.(D); Marcellino, Carl L.(R); O'Mara, Thomas F.(R); Ortt, Robert G.(R); Young, Catharine M.(R)

AYE W/O RECOMMENDATION - 1

Little, Elizabeth O'C.(R)

NAYS - 0 PRESENT-NOT-VOTING - 0 ABSENT - 0 SUBSTITUTED - 0

 

Democrat Republican Votes % Votes % Yes: 6 100 7 100 No: 0 0 0 0

[dbHunterNY]

db:
I think you said - on another thread - you wanted a vote tally from last year on the Senate bill.  This is the committee vote from Senate EnCon:
 

Bill Number: SB 4727 (NY-15R) Caption: By Robach, Joseph E.. Relates to the illegal taking of deer. Vote: S- 7501 First report Date: 06/01/16

AYES - 12

Addabbo, Jr., Joseph P.

(D)

; Avella, Tony

(D)

; Espaillat, Adriano

(D)

; Funke, Rich

®

; Hoylman, Brad M.

(D)

; Kaminsky, Todd

(D)

; LaValle, Kenneth P.

®

; Latimer, George S.

(D)

; Marcellino, Carl L.

®

; O'Mara, Thomas F.

®

; Ortt, Robert G.

®

; Young, Catharine M.

®

AYE W/O RECOMMENDATION - 1

Little, Elizabeth O'C.

®

NAYS - 0 PRESENT-NOT-VOTING - 0 ABSENT - 0 SUBSTITUTED - 0  

Democrat Republican Votes % Votes % Yes: 6 100 7 100 No: 0 0 0 0

Great info. This year passing in the assembly one legislator voted nay. I was curious who did.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Rebel Darling]

Christopher Friend, R - District 124.  Parts of Tioga and Chemung.

[Einsamer Krieger]

Great news, Thank you    Just what we need.  I have witnessed judges dismissing cases or lowering fines down and it's true all judges are not on the same level.

[growalot]

Here is a quote  from a DEC officer..." You have to wonder ,Why bother when you go to these small town justices and everyone is related to everyone. Then your made to look like an ass for doing your job by the time you leave the court"

[DirtTime]

On 3/23/2017 at 6:54 PM, dbHunterNY said:

Thank you for calling. I've yet to hear of an actual event where a judge has done that. Only rumors. No worries though. Remind them theyre elected and spread the word it happened and it won't happen again. Especially since we're talking local judges. Word travels quick and bad PR is not something that wins local elections.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

 

There have been cases, many if you look around. Seldom are the maximum penalties given. As for PR, there are more anti-hunters out there then hunters these days, so if they are only interested in keeping their "seat" they will go by the side of what will keep them popular for re-election.

 

In all reality, it won't matter if this passes. The slimy poachers will still poach, trespass, and just do what ever they want. There are no factual statics to look up regarding poachers, because most of them never get caught.

I am all for this Bill to get passed! But, I also look at the world in a very realistic manner, it will not stop poachers from doing what they do. Look at the drug trade, you think laws stop them? There will always be people who violate the regulations and laws of hunting, I won't go into to morality issue.

Pond scum will always be pond scum. No turning it into daisies. 

[dbHunterNY]

There will always be poachers. Make fines higher and some won't take the risk. Fewer cases to track or look into. Other states are far more serious about poachers. This targets the boldest offenders. It's a small step but a good one.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[DirtTime]

31 minutes ago, dbHunterNY said:

There will always be poachers. Make fines higher and some won't take the risk. Fewer cases to track or look into. Other states are far more serious about poachers. This targets the boldest offenders. It's a small step but a good one.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

I agree. Higher fines, I would say loss of license - but I'm sure many a poacher doesn't even have a hunting license, confiscate weapons where they do not get them back if found guilty, and mandatory jail time after a second offense.

Another issue are the poachers who own land, don't bother with a license, and kill game all year. They are out there. Very few if any of these morons get busted.

 

Would love too see poachers get the hammer thrown at them.

[dbHunterNY]

I agree. Higher fines, I would say loss of license - but I'm sure many a poacher doesn't even have a hunting license, confiscate weapons where they do not get them back if found guilty, and mandatory jail time after a second offense.
Another issue are the poachers who own land, don't bother with a license, and kill game all year. They are out there. Very few if any of these morons get busted.
 
Would love too see poachers get the hammer thrown at them.

There is possible loss of license and jail time with this bill. Until we start passing stuff like this to get people taking poaching seriously, serious hammers won't be thrown. Right now they're tossed. Time for change is now. Our ECOs need the help to fight poaching too.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Not even close to enough ECO's out there to even make this bill a good thing. Yes it will hurt the few that get caught but most will carry on without much fear. I know around here we dont have to worry to much about their showing up. Just never see them except maybe riding around on the Snow Scooter checking tip up's.  

Must do Check Stations and returning tags would go further in stopping xtra deer getting shot.

[growalot]

I am nearly shot by a guy shooting opening day 20  mins before opener and the DEC officer had to be shamed into even getting out of his car to investigate...refused to go to the person I believed did it and even question him,Saying " No I won't go talk to him,you know he's just going to lie anyways."

Then to add insult to injury says" You don't want to he the land gustople(sp?) Do you?"

Some regions will need better training and attitudes for any new laws to have teeth....let us remember the 40 or so minutes before and after dawn /dusk shots reported every gun season... I absolutely know without a doubt it happens even more during bow..I report one such shot an hour into dark..he was seen with a full moon back lighting him...No one showed for over an hour....The problem needs more addressed  than  just laws and stiffer fines alone.

[coonhunter]

I hunt all over 4F and several of the 7 units. I am almost 50 years old. Back when I first started hunting I would have several encounters with game wardens  small game hunting, coon hunting, and deer hunting. That all ended in the early 90's. The only encounters I have had with game wardens while hunting in the last 20+ years are when I have stopped in the Brookfield Stateland just to talk to a parked officer. They are close to non-exhistant around me.  The game laws seem to be pretty much on the honor system around here when it comes to land animals. By the same token, the first day of trout season, the game wardens come out of the woodwork to check fishing licences. I just don't see any changes having much of an impact around me.  

[dbHunterNY]

Right now the minimum fine is $250. You're expecting an ECO with a complaint to approach someone who is knowly armed while breaking the law with reckless abandon and some of you wonder why they give out more fishing tickets? Just south of here ECO Davey just got shot in the pelvis with a deer rifle by poacher he had a call on to investigate. How is that fair to ECOs and their families? Time to put effort to pony up the penalties to make the juice more worth the squeeze. You're either against poaching or you're a poacher.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[The_Real_TCIII]

I've never been checked while deer hunting, only fishing and duck hunting (at the ramp). I'd gladly pay double for my license to get more out there. Especially the third shift


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grampy]

20 minutes ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

I've never been checked while deer hunting, only fishing and duck hunting (at the ramp). I'd gladly pay double for my license to get more out there. Especially the third shift


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree 100% with this. I'd be more than happy to pay more for my tags, if it put more ECO boots on the ground. I really think the ECO's do great work! There's just not enough of them. The area's assigned to each officer, is usually 100's of square miles. I think, before more legislation is passed, in the form of AR's or Crossbow, and any number of other proposals that are currently being talked about. It would make more sense to recruit more ECO's to enforce those laws. The green line is way to thin. We need to shore up that line, before adding more laws to enforce.

[stubby68]

I've been hunting about 35 years and have only seen 2 Eco while hunting. Other then the ones I hunt with. Neither of the ones did any more then wave at me. However I have seen as many as 4 all sitting together down town shooting the breeze. Even the ones I hunt with do more hunting then work. However if the get a call they respond.  In my area it decently is more then one for 100 square miles. More like one for 10 miles. Just isn't a big problem in some areas. We also have lots of forest rangers here never seen any of them at all. One time I saw on parked at some state land. I went to pick up a buddy who had gotten a doe. The officer never got out of hiss truck. After we loaded the doe he said congrats and we left. Never a question or check of anything. Tag want even on deer it was in buddies pocket. Not saying they don't do there job just that in some areas they know there isn't a big problem. Maybe they should move some of the ones in non problem areas to high problem areas. On opening day of trout season though they are all over checking people. Go figure.

 

10 hours ago, dbHunterNY said:

Right now the minimum fine is $250. You're expecting an ECO with a complaint to approach someone who is knowly armed while breaking the law with reckless abandon and some of you wonder why they give out more fishing tickets? Just south of here ECO Davey just got shot in the pelvis with a deer rifle by poacher he had a call on to investigate. How is that fair to ECOs and their families? Time to put effort to pony up the penalties to make the juice more worth the squeeze. You're either against poaching or you're a poacher.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

         It is there job. They knew they might get calls like this when they took the job. If they don't want to do what they were hired for then they should get a different job. That's like a police officer saying I'm not going to a robbery call because the per might have a gun. What good are they if they are afraid to do there job. There job requires dealing with people who are more than likely armed and they knew this when they applied for the job. Yet you think they shouldn't be required to do there job. The fine handed out or punishment should not determine if they do there job. That's like saying speeding tickets do not have a big enough fine so do not enforce the law because the person in the car might have a gun.

[dbHunterNY]

7 hours ago, stubby68 said:

I've been hunting about 35 years and have only seen 2 Eco while hunting. Other then the ones I hunt with. Neither of the ones did any more then wave at me. However I have seen as many as 4 all sitting together down town shooting the breeze. Even the ones I hunt with do more hunting then work. However if the get a call they respond.  In my area it decently is more then one for 100 square miles. More like one for 10 miles. Just isn't a big problem in some areas. We also have lots of forest rangers here never seen any of them at all. One time I saw on parked at some state land. I went to pick up a buddy who had gotten a doe. The officer never got out of hiss truck. After we loaded the doe he said congrats and we left. Never a question or check of anything. Tag want even on deer it was in buddies pocket. Not saying they don't do there job just that in some areas they know there isn't a big problem. Maybe they should move some of the ones in non problem areas to high problem areas. On opening day of trout season though they are all over checking people. Go figure.

 

         It is there job. They knew they might get calls like this when they took the job. If they don't want to do what they were hired for then they should get a different job. That's like a police officer saying I'm not going to a robbery call because the per might have a gun. What good are they if they are afraid to do there job. There job requires dealing with people who are more than likely armed and they knew this when they applied for the job. Yet you think they shouldn't be required to do there job. The fine handed out or punishment should not determine if they do there job. That's like saying speeding tickets do not have a big enough fine so do not enforce the law because the person in the car might have a gun.

i'm not implying they shouldn't do their job or are afraid to do so.  they do and will continue to do their job knowing very well the situation i'd think or like you said get a different one.  add that many people treat them with disdain, because "they won't let me hunt without writing me a ticket". i mean heck you just outed your ECO buddies saying they hunt more than they work.  your analogies kind of suck.  not so sure that many commit a robbery with a firearm and then end up going to local court to pay a $250 or so ticket before they go home.  many seem to think this will help, but not completely solve the problem.  i agree.  i also believe if it'll help than why not.  maybe some added income pays for a temporary shuffle of ECOs to where they're needed in relatively close proximity to where they already are and at key times of the year.  maybe i should've just done a poll; are you (anyone participating) for or against reducing poaching?

[dbHunterNY]

8 hours ago, grampy said:

I agree 100% with this. I'd be more than happy to pay more for my tags, if it put more ECO boots on the ground. I really think the ECO's do great work! There's just not enough of them. The area's assigned to each officer, is usually 100's of square miles. I think, before more legislation is passed, in the form of AR's or Crossbow, and any number of other proposals that are currently being talked about. It would make more sense to recruit more ECO's to enforce those laws. The green line is way to thin. We need to shore up that line, before adding more laws to enforce.

the sweet thing about this is that it's not adding to legislation already there.  it's changing it.  no new laws.  only the outcome that when a poacher is caught they get their hand slapped harder and the message that goes along with that is spread.  it very well could pull in more funding to pay for more ECOs.  how that fine money gets distributed is determined a lot by the specific case and what went down.

[coonhunter]

That's just it. I don't believe the state has any plans of adding game wardens. It's all just another feel good measure to make it look like the state is doing something to help out the legal hunters. The ECO's hands are tied. They have way to much ground to cover and way too many complaints. The state does not take the hunting industry seriously like most states.

Another point I would like to point out, and I may be alone in this opinion, is that I do not feel a poaching penalty should be harsher than a DWI, assault, or most crimes that involve people being injured or put at risk. You can call me a poacher all you want just because I don't agree with your views, but I am a hunter that usually shoots a couple deer a year, and most of the time they are both does because big bucks don't give up opportunities every year. Like others mention, I also get frustrated sitting in a stand during bow season and hearing the single rifle shots first thing in the morning, or just around dark. But, with one game warden for the area, what can he do? He can't be everywhere. 

[dbHunterNY]

coonhunter... i think we agree that ECOs are spread thin.  from what i've read and been told by ECOs is poaching seems to be an act from repeat offenders.  they most definitely have their work cut out for them.  if the repeat poachers are paying whatever current fine and it didn't deter them from doing it again then apparently the penalties were a joke and didn't do what they're meant to do.  multiple cases around have shown poachers jacking deer at night or out of season.  they basically cut the head off or made a poor shot and left the body there.  i mean these aren't cases of a hunter feed family it's just wonton waste when others are eating tag soup doing it the right way or a resource not going at least to a food closet to feed those really in need.  i can't imagine in every case of jacking deer at night the poacher knows the lay of the land their firing bullets into the darkness.  also i know many cases day or night where they speed away as to not get caught whether with the deer or not.  multiple people i know have seen it, including myself, while trying to get a plate # or any other ID info.  fortunately i, friends, or family haven't had a wrong place wrong time incident that lead to injury.  i have seen and heard of damage to personal property from crop damage, to run over mailboxes, to bullet holes in equipment and/or buildings.  even then i can't imagine these minimum penalties are harsher than DWI, assault, or other violent crimes.  they do get a bit higher for frequent repeat offenders.  don't know if "you" meant me, but i wouldn't call you in seriousness call you poacher unless i knew you to be one.

[stubby68]

2 hours ago, dbHunterNY said:

i'm not implying they shouldn't do their job or are afraid to do so.  they do and will continue to do their job knowing very well the situation i'd think or like you said get a different one.  add that many people treat them with disdain, because "they won't let me hunt without writing me a ticket". i mean heck you just outed your ECO buddies saying they hunt more than they work.  your analogies kind of suck.  not so sure that many commit a robbery with a firearm and then end up going to local court to pay a $250 or so ticket before they go home.  many seem to think this will help, but not completely solve the problem.  i agree.  i also believe if it'll help than why not.  maybe some added income pays for a temporary shuffle of ECOs to where they're needed in relatively close proximity to where they already are and at key times of the year.  maybe i should've just done a poll; are you (anyone participating) for or against reducing poaching?

               My example with my buddies was mentioned to point to the fact that in my areas there is not a big problem with poaching as was the example of others e c os  sitting down town shooting the breeze, or the forest ranger who never got out of his truck or even asked any questioned. There are officers galore in areas where nothing or very little is happening yet in areas where poaching is a problem there are very few. Maybe they need to just move them from lower problem areas to higher problem areas.

[turkeyfeathers]

I still get a kick out of the roadblock the DEC and troopers had set up at 20A and Rte 77 on second day of gun season last year. Easily 6/7 DEC vehicles and the same of trooper vehicles. Pulling every vehicle over to check if they saw orange or camo. Total BS imo. No Bills home game and that's the route they'd normally set a DWI check at. Money grab. Empty deer carrier and he asks "any luck today", "pull over so we can check your license and make sure your gun is unloaded"  I felt like being assumed guilty before innocent.   So they sat there for most of the day with nobody out in the field ? ! I have gotten checked once at Burt dam fishing 25 years ago.