DMP permitting = BS!!!!

[thphtm]

On 9/9/2017 at 9:02 AM, steve863 said:

The Catskills region is honestly a waste of time to hunt during gun season.  Between antler restrictions and the lack of doe tags there isn't much left that is legal to shoot at.

Unless you know where to hunt, there were some pretty nice bucks taken the last few years because of AR's , It's not like the 70's 80's up here any more , the woods are over grown and little brouse for them to eat so they move to where the food is. Most of the area by me is either DEP land or property owned by weekenders who come up and sit on there buts watching the trees grow and grow then complain ,where have all of the wildlife gone. Glad to see the DEC finally  wised up and stopped handing out so many DMP'S and found out that there were not as many deer around that they thought there were.

[steve863]

14 minutes ago, thphtm said:

Unless you know where to hunt, there were some pretty nice bucks taken the last few years because of AR's , It's not like the 70's 80's up here any more , the woods are over grown and little brouse for them to eat so they move to where the food is. Most of the area by me is either DEP land or property owned by weekenders who come up and sit on there buts watching the trees grow and grow then complain ,where have all of the wildlife gone. Glad to see the DEC finally  wised up and stopped handing out so many DMP'S and found out that there were not as many deer around that they thought there were.

What were they doing to the woods in the 70's and 80's that they aren't doing now?  When has there been a lot of logging in the Catskills?

The DEC has been reducing the amount of DMP's in the area for a number of years now.  The amount they give out gets lower every year.  I can't believe that the deer numbers haven't increased in this region no matter if the woods are overgrown or not.  I would think things should have started to move in the right direction as far as deer numbers without DMP's being issued.  Add to this the AR restrictions and the fact that fewer hunters in general our out hunting compared to the 70's and 80's, there should be more deer running around than ever before.

[eagle rider]

Maybe the DEC is content with all the 4 legged coyote feed or having so many CDW possibilities running through the woods.


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[silent death]

3 hours ago, Doewhacker said:

That is what everyone said when AR's went in but there has been no increase in DMP. One of our spots in 4S is exactly the same, tons of doe and no permits for years now. So much so that I have stopped hunting there, I don't hunt there for the bucks. There are bucks sure but for the most part its not what I am looking for and the farmer is looking for doe taken out. He has to get damage permits if he wants that done or fence it all in.

Had 3 preference points last year for 4s and got denied I gave up

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I can see how a maturing forest (little browse and food for the deer) and increase in broken up land by development could concentrate populations in areas with AG or fringe cover. That puts the population where it can be seen easily and in many case not hunted easily. 

[Padre86]

On 9/10/2017 at 9:29 PM, Larry said:

How can anyone go into get a DMP and not know how many are being issued and the odds for the WMU’s you’re applying for. You should be looking at the hunting forecast for that WMU. The DEC puts out the hunting forecast for the states WMU’s every year. The DEC has to manage the whole WMU not just your little part of deer heaven.

Agreed.  I'm not familiar with the deer situation in and around the catskills, but are there not WMU's nearby that have a high probability of getting a DMP?

 

I know for the ADK's, where I hunt, DMP's aren't even an option for rifle season (muzzleloader and archery might be different).  That's just something that I accept going into every season.  DEC DMP Regions

[Culvercreek hunt club]

14 minutes ago, Padre86 said:

I know for the ADK's, where I hunt, DMP's aren't even an option for rifle season (muzzleloader and archery might be different).  That's just something that I accept going into every season.  DEC DMP Regions

That is one reason why I am a huge proponent of all antlerless take being through the permit system. No more antlerless bow or ML. Get your antlered tag and then apply where you want to get an antlerless. If you draw an antlerless tag for the area you decide what weapon and season you want to fill it in. gun hunters, bow hunter and ML should have the same draw opportunity. Even in the DAKS

[Padre86]

7 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

That is one reason why I am a huge proponent of all antlerless take being through the permit system. No more antlerless bow or ML. Get your antlered tag and then apply where you want to get an antlerless. If you draw an antlerless tag for the area you decide what weapon and season you want to fill it in. gun hunters, bow hunter and ML should have the same draw opportunity. Even in the DAKS

Don't quote me on ADK archery and muzzleloader....I'll have to doublecheck, but I think DMP's may be restricted or even unavailable for those seasons in some WMU's up there.

[steve863]

19 minutes ago, Padre86 said:

Agreed.  I'm not familiar with the deer situation in and around the catskills, but are there not WMU's nearby that have a high probability of getting a DMP?

 

I know for the ADK's, where I hunt, DMP's aren't even an option for rifle season (muzzleloader and archery might be different).  That's just something that I accept going into every season.  DEC DMP Regions

Good luck trying to find access in some of these units.  Also, some of these units are bow only which will not help those who hunt with gun only.  We shouldn't forget that the majority of hunters out there are still the gun hunters.  Seems like the bowhunters get more of the perks these days with the longer season, can legally take a deer of either sex, etc., while the gun hunter seems to be getting less and less for his hunting license dollar.  Not exactly fair in my opinion, but I doubt the DEC will listen to me.

 

 

 

 

[G-Man]

The problem is the habitat sucks in the Catskills as well as Hunter per as mile being very high.. So does are everywhere being seen but there has to be bucks to breed them... Thick nasty areas. Are few and far between from what I've seen Who it turkey hunting there.. 

I suggest you save a few bucks and drive to wny and hunt for a week.. Lots of doe tags and lots of. Deer

[Padre86]

10 minutes ago, G-Man said:

The problem is the habitat sucks in the Catskills as well as Hunter per as mile being very high.. So does are everywhere being seen but there has to be bucks to breed them... Thick nasty areas. Are few and far between from what I've seen Who it turkey hunting there.. 

I suggest you save a few bucks and drive to wny and hunt for a week.. Lots of doe tags and lots of. Deer

Lots of doe tags for sure, but the hunter per mile is still very high, especially on public land here in the western part of the state.  Your best bet is to lease or find that special place that few other hunters know about.

[steve863]

15 minutes ago, G-Man said:

The problem is the habitat sucks in the Catskills as well as Hunter per as mile being very high.. So does are everywhere being seen but there has to be bucks to breed them... Thick nasty areas. Are few and far between from what I've seen Who it turkey hunting there.. 

I suggest you save a few bucks and drive to wny and hunt for a week.. Lots of doe tags and lots of. Deer

I would agree that the habitat isn't great, but there surely aren't nearly as many hunters in this area as there used to be.  Not even close.  In fact it's pretty much a ghost town after the first weekend in the area I hunted.   And the decrease in hunters already started 5-10 years or more ago, so I can't imagine things have gotten any better.  We know that the bowhunters don't kill too many deer, and since there are less hunters in general, I just can't see how the DEC justifies giving out even LESS doe tags with every passing year in this area.

 

 

Edited September 14, 2017 by steve863

[Culvercreek hunt club]

24 minutes ago, Padre86 said:

Don't quote me on ADK archery and muzzleloader....I'll have to doublecheck, but I think DMP's may be restricted or even unavailable for those seasons in some WMU's up there.

restricted in a very few areas. most of the NZ that does not allow antlerless permits, allow for taking antlerless with the bow and ML. I go up and do it every October during the NZ ML opener. It's our quick hit camp meat for the coming deer season. 

[G-Man]

1 hour ago, Padre86 said:

Lots of doe tags for sure, but the hunter per mile is still very high, especially on public land here in the western part of the state.  Your best bet is to lease or find that special place that few other hunters know about.

There are pieces of stateland that are small 50acres or so and they are empty.. As well as many larger area that are empty.. I can go by 5000 acres of state land and see 3 or 4 cars or trucks.. Just advoid the parcels closest to metropolitan areas.. 30 min extra drive and your alone except for maybe a group of locals ...

[Grizz1219]

They have ZERO clue about deer herd #'s.... I run 6 cameras 6 months of the year... see 10-15 does per buck every year... nothing changes... idiots.... 

[Grizz1219]

Oh... I hunt 4Y and 4Z.... by the way.. 

 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

5 minutes ago, Grizz1219 said:

Oh... I hunt 4Y and 4Z.... by the way.. 

 

how much of 4Y and 4Z do you hunt or run cameras on?

[catskillkid]

I hunt in 4O in the Catskills. No shortage of deer here. I received my landowner dmp as usual. However, my friend who is a non-resident received one also. the state website says that there is no chance of a non-resident getting one, this has been the case for years now. So how did he get it? Weird things are happening

[land 1]

well last yr in 7M only could get 1 dmp and non residents couldnt get any, this yr everyone has a high chance for 1st and if your a resident low on second chance and non resident no second,,, seems like a big bump up,,,, really dont see why they made the increase ... I will say this they do alot of cutting of trees on state land in the area and i think that improves habitat... 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

1 hour ago, catskillkid said:

I hunt in 4O in the Catskills. No shortage of deer here. I received my landowner dmp as usual. However, my friend who is a non-resident received one also. the state website says that there is no chance of a non-resident getting one, this has been the case for years now. So how did he get it? Weird things are happening

was he ever a resident of NY and by any chance did he have a lifetime NYS license?

[chas0218]

Yup 8W where we just bought land is PP req'd. I have seen a ton of doe on my property but no permit unless I have 50 acres or more or a pref. point. or more.

[catskillkid]

No, he was never a NY resident and has no lifetime license.

Edited September 14, 2017 by catskillkid

[Culvercreek hunt club]

7 minutes ago, catskillkid said:

No, he was never a NY resident and has no lifetime license.

Was wondering because I know a few that have claimed to have gotten through the cracks that way. 

[Grizz1219]

5 hours ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

how much of 4Y and 4Z do you hunt or run cameras on?

True... it is just a few farms.. but I can't be the only one seeing this.. 

 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

5 minutes ago, Grizz1219 said:

True... it is just a few farms.. but I can't be the only one seeing this.. 

 

I hear ya. Seems like there are similar and conflicting stories in about every WMU. Those two WMU's are pushing around 270,000 acres. Seems like all the units have habitat and densities that vary. I think it is time they redistrict them IMO