can you explain why hunters would want to shorten gun season?

[Nomad]

I'd like to see a break down of the numer killed by date . How many are killed in the last week that we'd do away with ?  Most here say the woods are empty by then .

[WNYBuckHunter]

41 minutes ago, njg0621 said:

In Illinois you literally don't even need a doe tag as a resident you can just shoot does without a permit. 

Wrong.

Straight from the Ill DNR regulation book. They can take 2 bucks and unlimited does, but each doe requires a permit. People out there also have a way better handle on how they need to manage their local herds and their properties.

[Doewhacker]

17 hours ago, ccondid1 said:

The arguement is for improving the health of the whitetail deer herd

Unless deer are starving from over population or contract a disease that require more killed no season changes or AR have any effect on health. The deer are perfectly healthy through out most of the state that I know of.

What changing seasons does effect is the number of deer around for the next year and beyond.

A VERY large percentage of the take comes opening weekend so keep that in mind.

[moog5050]

22 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

 

For example, I could be hunting a stand and see 3 bucks chasing hard, does running around, the whole 9 yards. My buddy could be hunting the same property, at the same time, just a few hundred yards away and tell me that every deer on the farm has disappeared into a black hole because he hasnt seen a hair.

This was my season in a nutshell.  lol

[Doewhacker]

3 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

This was my season in a nutshell.  lol

Mine too lol

A good one was in my yard while I was at work last week during daylight. What a kick in the nuts

[Csk21]

7 minutes ago, Stay at home Nomad said:

I'd like to see a break down of the numer killed by date . How many are killed in the last week that we'd do away with ?  Most here say the woods are empty by then .

 

[moog5050]

7 minutes ago, Doewhacker said:

Mine too lol

A good one was in my yard while I was at work last week during daylight. What a kick in the nuts

Sad part is, if we switched stands, the deer left with my buddy.  haha  You can do everything possible to up the odds, but there ain't no guarantees in hunting.

[WNYBuckHunter]

12 minutes ago, njg0621 said:

I love to hunt and I hunt hard, unfortunately I can't afford to go away on a hunt every year...so no I don't have a choice I have to hunt here.  It's pretty simple just implement some of the laws from the top 5 whitetail states and we would grow bigger bucks.  They all allow the harvest of more does and less bucks.  I know that i live in 4C and there are 10 to 1 does to bucks in the area. I also need a preference point to shoot a does in 4C, does that make sense? I also know that whatever NY currently does isn't working! You can't argue that point at least, what we are doing is an epic fail so why not try something new? I will never win this argument here like I said but the numbers speak for themselves....We are the worst hunting state in the country...we must be doing it all right

Not necessarily. Most of the state doesnt have the soil and mineral conditions, let alone AG to even come close to competing with the mid west. The finger lakes region is an exception to that, but with some of the highest hunter densities in the nation, deer are heavily pressured. Also, the way the land is broken up into relatively small properties, lots of roads, etc compared to the mid west, keeps limits on what NY's potential is. Stop comparing it to Illinois, we will never get there with the exception of one or two regions.

[njg0621]

Not necessarily. Most of the state doesnt have the soil and mineral conditions, let alone AG to even come close to competing with the mid west. The finger lakes region is an exception to that, but with some of the highest hunter densities in the nation, deer are heavily pressured. Also, the way the land is broken up into relatively small properties, lots of roads, etc compared to the mid west, keeps limits on what NY's potential is. Stop comparing it to Illinois, we will never get there with the exception of one or two regions.

 

This is total BS IMO.  The reason I believe they have the bucks is because of the laws not the Agriculture and Land.  Have you ever hunted anywhere out west? If anything the deer have it worse because once all the crops are cut all you have is small parcels of woods with lots of large fields to shoot them on.

Listen we will never agree on this so I'm done.  Let me just ask you one thing though? What is the answer? NY is the worst State in the country, what do we do to make things better? Since it isn't shortening the gun season, allowing one antlered deer per season and opening up the doe restrictions to make the meat hunters happy...what is it? I bet if those 3 things were looked at you would see huge results but that's just me.

Edited November 15, 2017 by njg0621

[BigVal]

Guys shoot monsters every year here in NY. Some people may just need to change tactics to capitalize on big bucks if that's all it's about to you. I know people will say well we want more trophy bucks, I get it. But the opportunity for trophy deer is there, go for it instead of getting your panties in a bunch. Lol

[Culvercreek hunt club]

3 minutes ago, njg0621 said:

I love to hunt and I hunt hard, unfortunately I can't afford to go away on a hunt every year...so no I don't have a choice I have to hunt here.  It's pretty simple just implement some of the laws from the top 5 whitetail states and we would grow bigger bucks.  They all allow the harvest of more does and less bucks.  I know that i live in 4C and there are 10 to 1 does to bucks in the area. I also need a preference point to shoot a does in 4C, does that make sense? I also know that whatever NY currently does isn't working! You can't argue that point at least, what we are doing is an epic fail so why not try something new? I will never win this argument here like I said but the numbers speak for themselves....We are the worst hunting state in the country...we must be doing it all right

I don't know about the worst. I have had a terrible year for gettign out and I hunted up north one weekend with the muzzleloader.  For the bowhunting I have only been out 5 times. In those 5 sits I have seen 3 bucks that are over the 140 mark and at least 3.5 year olds and One I believe is 5.5 years old. Saturday Morning the chasing was crazy. 22 deer I saw within 75 yards of my stand and 11 of those were bucks. Pretty good sit for a crappy state. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

13 minutes ago, njg0621 said:

 

This is total BS IMO.  The reason I believe they have the bucks is because of the laws not the Agriculture and Land.  Have you ever hunted anywhere out west? If anything the deer have it worse because once all the crops are cut all you have is small parcels of woods with lots of large fields to shoot them on.

Listen we will never agree on this so I'm done.  Let me just ask you one thing though? What is the answer? NY is the worst State in the country, what do we do to make things better? Since it isn't shortening the gun season, allowing one antlered deer per season and opening up the doe restrictions to make the meat hunters happy...what is it? I bet if those 3 things were looked at you would see huge results but that's just me.

How many other areas of NY have you hunted besides the region 4 areas?

[WNYBuckHunter]

19 minutes ago, njg0621 said:

 

This is total BS IMO.  The reason I believe they have the bucks is because of the laws not the Agriculture and Land.  Have you ever hunted anywhere out west? If anything the deer have it worse because once all the crops are cut all you have is small parcels of woods with lots of large fields to shoot them on.

Listen we will never agree on this so I'm done.  Let me just ask you one thing though? What is the answer? NY is the worst State in the country, what do we do to make things better? Since it isn't shortening the gun season, allowing one antlered deer per season and opening up the doe restrictions to make the meat hunters happy...what is it? I bet if those 3 things were looked at you would see huge results but that's just me.

You can say its BS all you want, but you are wrong, and its been proven. You can take a look at mineral maps, then look at P&Y and B&C harvest maps. It all lines up. Ask farmers why crops grow so well in certain areas and not so well in others. Its not coincidence.

As for the open fields statement, what do you think happens out west when they harvest the crops? LMAO

Theres lots of room for improvement here in NY, but you need to be realistic in your expectations.

[njg0621]

8 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

How many other areas of NY have you hunted besides the region 4 areas?

Alot! And I have a lot of friends that hunt all over the state....

So are you guys really trying to make the argument that in a whole NY is a good state for killing mature bucks? I'm not even talking rack size because that takes out the Minerals, Crops, Agriculture and all that BS. I'm talking 3 1/2 + yr old deer I don't care if they are 60".  75% of the bucks harvested are yearlings.  

Culvert I've seen your pics in the past and you are very lucky to have the property you do but it doesn't represent the state fairly.  80% of guys don't see that in a season here!  I've shot several good bucks here and I pass tons every year....this place sucks! lol Sorry but it's the truth, compared to everyone else the amounts of mature bucks killed sucks.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

This isn't directed at anyone in particular but I can't help but sit back and giggle my a$$ off when I hear the doom and gloom about how bad the hunting is here in NY.  Should have walked in some of the older hunters shoes in NY through the 60's. 70's and early 80's. Then tell me how bad we have it. 

[njg0621]

14 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

You can say its BS all you want, but you are wrong, and its been proven. You can take a look at mineral maps, then look at P&Y and B&C harvest maps. It all lines up. Ask farmers why crops grow so well in certain areas and not so well in others. Its not coincidence.

As for the open fields statement, what do you think happens out west when they harvest the crops? LMAO

Theres lots of room for improvement here in NY, but you need to be realistic in your expectations.

Take Rack size out of it! It comes down to they shoot mature deer we shoot yearlings.  Rack size doesn't matter.

[WNYBuckHunter]

4 minutes ago, njg0621 said:

 75% of the bucks harvested are yearlings. 

Wrong again...

[njg0621]

4 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

This isn't directed at anyone in particular but I can't help but sit back and giggle my a$$ off when I hear the doom and gloom about how bad the hunting is here in NY.  Should have walked in some of the older hunters shoes in NY through the 60's. 70's and early 80's. Then tell me how bad we have it. 

State sucks...sorry.  Ask my buddy who had to move here from Ohio because he is in the military.  He is a die hard hunter and is losing it!

[Culvercreek hunt club]

3 minutes ago, njg0621 said:

Alot! And I have a lot of friends that hunt all over the state....

So are you guys really trying to make the argument that in a whole NY is a good state for killing mature bucks? I'm not even talking rack size because that takes out the Minerals, Crops, Agriculture and all that BS. I'm talking 3 1/2 + yr old deer I don't care if they are 60".  75% of the bucks harvested are yearlings.  

Culvert I've seen your pics in the past and you are very lucky to have the property you do but it doesn't represent the state fairly.  80% of guys don't see that in a season here!  I've shot several good bucks here and I pass tons every year....this place sucks! lol Sorry but it's the truth, compared to everyone else the amounts of mature bucks killed sucks.

Well the harvest data (for what it is) does not support your 75% yearling harvest numbers. Look at the yearling harvest trends for NY. 

I am lucky with some of the areas I have access to. but it isn't just near me. There are mature bucks taken all over the state. Sure they aren't behind every tree like some would like but it sure seems like every region posts them up each year. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

3 minutes ago, njg0621 said:

State sucks...sorry.  Ask my buddy who had to move here from Ohio because he is in the military.  He is a die hard hunter and is losing it!

How old are you?

[njg0621]

2 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Wrong again...

Im done playing this game.....Like I said we are doing everything perfect don't change a thing! Mature bucks everywhere! 

[njg0621]

36 going on 12 right now because you two are irritating the Sh*t out of me!

[WNYBuckHunter]

4 minutes ago, njg0621 said:

Take Rack size out of it! It comes down to they shoot mature deer we shoot yearlings.  Rack size doesn't matter.

Wrong answer...

[WNYBuckHunter]

3 minutes ago, njg0621 said:

Im done playing this game.....Like I said we are doing everything perfect don't change a thing! Mature bucks everywhere! 

Yep, youre done playing because you dont have a clue what you are talking about and Im posting facts....

[Culvercreek hunt club]

2 minutes ago, njg0621 said:

36 going on 12 right now because you two are irritating the Sh*t out of me!

It's difficult to take stock in what people assert when so much of their information is not born out by the facts. Yeah, NY could be a lot better but you lose all credibility when you toss out things like shooting all the does you want and harvest data that is NOT accurate. It' isn't personal so don't get riled. The reality is you are not old enough to know what NY was like to judge how far it has come.  NY has WAY more varied habitat than any of the other mid west states you are talking about. There will never ever be a one size fits all solution to deer management in NY. There can't be.