Why not close off some state land on a rotation to have better hunting for deer

[Hunter007]

Just wondering why they don't close some state land to hunting for let's say 1 or 2 years then reopen and do the same on a different section just randomally rotate them just to see if it improves things like the size of  bucks taken in those parks .

Has this been tried before?

I always got the impression lots of the state land is  way over hunted . Compared to private land . 

Edited November 19, 2017 by Storm914

[Robhuntandfish]

My guess is the state wouldn't want to fight that battle with PO'd people that were told they can't hunt. And then once it opened it would be like Walmart on black Friday. 

[loworange88]

Plus, its NYS, they'd screw it up somehow.

 

[NFA-ADK]

The private land owners would love that, less competition.  But the flak from closing land to someone who has hunted it for over 10 years would hit the fan.   Best bet is to let them go so they can grow.  You will never see a giant if you shoot every 2 year old and younger.   Many of us practice QDM on our own and it shows in those spots.  

[Freytown]

I agree with the reason listed, bad idea. Deer populations are control doe harvests but you can't have SF rules either. Another problem would be enforcement. If you know that certain area has low numbers, hunting somewhere else is probably your best bet.

We have the same issues in PA with the SGL system. 

[JALA RUT]

I think a better idea than closing different state lands rotationally would be to implement antler restrictions at some of the state lands that appear to have less than average quality of bucks, although on the flip side of that; I'm not really in agreement with a system that tells a hunter which quality of deer he can take to fill his tag. I choose to pass on smaller younger bucks waiting for what I consider to be a shooter buck to me but have no issues with others taking any legal deer that makes them happy.

[Hunter007]

Yes you all make great points but with so much state land around seems reasonable that they could rotate some of them just to see what happens but may be you guys are right they would probably mess it up anyway

[Buckmaster7600]

Until they start changing season dates if you want to hunt managed property break out the check book.


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[Core]

1 hour ago, NFA-ADK said:

The private land owners would love that, less competition.  But the flak from closing land to someone who has hunted it for over 10 years would hit the fan.   Best bet is to let them go so they can grow.  You will never see a giant if you shoot every 2 year old and younger.   Many of us practice QDM on our own and it shows in those spots.  

It may work like that on private land, but not on the public land I have hunted. I have hunted public land and if I have a tag for it I will go for it. Only exception is for tiny deer; but 4 points is as good as 10 on the public land I've been on. When the land is so devoid of deer you're getting one shot opportunity every dozen hunts (yeah really!), you can't afford to be picky!

[Core]

59 minutes ago, JALA RUT said:

I think a better idea than closing different state lands rotationally would be to implement antler restrictions at some of the state lands that appear to have less than average quality of bucks, although on the flip side of that; I'm not really in agreement with a system that tells a hunter which quality of deer he can take to fill his tag. I choose to pass on smaller younger bucks waiting for what I consider to be a shooter buck to me but have no issues with others taking any legal deer that makes them happy.

Again, some spots of land are low on bucks because the hunters there are fighting over scraps as it is. Many will be happy as a clam to even take a single doe, so more restrictions mean lowering their odds of a harvest even further. Now that this year I've been on private land and I have seen what it can be (see deer every time I hunt) it is shocking to me how hard the land I hunted prior two years was to pull deer out of.

[Hunter007]

19 minutes ago, Core said:

Again, some spots of land are low on bucks because the hunters there are fighting over scraps as it is. Many will be happy as a clam to even take a single doe, so more restrictions mean lowering their odds of a harvest even further. Now that this year I've been on private land and I have seen what it can be (see deer every time I hunt) it is shocking to me how hard the land I hunted prior two years was to pull deer out 

Had same experience 

[Core]

I like the thought, though. I wish something could be done about land. I live in the eastern rochester suburbs and the closest hunting land is about 40 min away and hunted pretty hard. I've gone to it many times and, on the way, I'm positive I drove past acre after acre of land privately owned that is not hunted and not because the private owners don't want it hunted but maybe because people haven't asked, or the owner wants a few bucks lease and can't find the people.  I'm surprised at how hard it is to find land to lease. 

When it's come up in the past private owners rightfully don't want more of their tax money going to subsidize people like me with the state giving money to private owners maybe to entice them to allow hunters. I do feel like there has to be a program the state could enact that helps encourage private owners to allow hunting. The current thing I see in the DEC guide about "ask before you hunt" is useless. I've never in my life seen such a sign on private land. 

I'm also willing to pay for land--up to $20/acre to hunt it, which seems a standard price. And I'm surrounded but farms and land here but I see no leases come up. I've not done the "knock on all the doors" thing yet but in the age of the internet there has to be a better way to hook hunters up with land. We have tons of land in NY and tons of deer (too many according to DEC). It should be easier than this.

[DarrenB]

Buddy of mine took a nice one down the road from me in delaware county.

[reeltime]

33 minutes ago, Core said:

I like the thought, though. I wish something could be done about land. I live in the eastern rochester suburbs and the closest hunting land is about 40 min away and hunted pretty hard. I've gone to it many times and, on the way, I'm positive I drove past acre after acre of land privately owned that is not hunted and not because the private owners don't want it hunted but maybe because people haven't asked, or the owner wants a few bucks lease and can't find the people.  I'm surprised at how hard it is to find land to lease. 

When it's come up in the past private owners rightfully don't want more of their tax money going to subsidize people like me with the state giving money to private owners maybe to entice them to allow hunters. I do feel like there has to be a program the state could enact that helps encourage private owners to allow hunting. The current thing I see in the DEC guide about "ask before you hunt" is useless. I've never in my life seen such a sign on private land. 

I'm also willing to pay for land--up to $20/acre to hunt it, which seems a standard price. And I'm surrounded but farms and land here but I see no leases come up. I've not done the "knock on all the doors" thing yet but in the age of the internet there has to be a better way to hook hunters up with land. We have tons of land in NY and tons of deer (too many according to DEC). It should be easier than this.

i can not ever see them shutting down state land to allow the herd to increase, its a double edge sword. First and foremost you are taking away available land from those that helped to PAY for that land. second of all you shut down one piece of property all those folks are going to a different piece of property and just adding more pressure there.

 

as far as all the private land goes and why some of it is off limits I would say here are a few reasons,,, and I am not saying folks on here are like this but from personal experience this is what I have seen.

First of all we live in different times, it is not like it was 30 years ago and this is what I mean by that;

a- people today are NOT very trusting towards strangers, and i guess for good reason. people are just not going to be very open to inviting a complete stranger onto their property knowing they are going to be carrying a gun or bow. lets face reality most of these people only know hunting from what they see on the morning or evening news and if that's all you ever see about hunting then all hunters are nothing more than unsafe slobs that either shoot houses or each other.  So put yourself in their shoes, if a complete stranger walked up to your door and asked you if they could hunt right next to your home would you just say yeah go ahead no problem.....

 

b- society has become a sue happy society and quite frankly people are afraid of getting sued whether there is any merit to those fears or not its a strong fear.

The older landowners have seen it all, dealt with it all, and they are just sick of dealing with the problems. If you don't or never have owned enough property in a hunting area then no disrespect but you can not even fathom the problems we have had and continue to have even with posters on every tree.

People have no respect for landowners or for other people in general, they walk right by the signs, when caught you wouldn't believe some of the stories you hear as an excuse.  driving on fields, shooting too close to our farm  animals, pushing down fences, leaving gates open, leaving trash behind, shooting towards and or hitting farm buildings or houses. Theft of the landowners stands, camera's, blinds.

We as a hunting society over the years have paved a road that is only getting harder for the next generation to navigate. maybe not us as individuals on this board but our fellow hunting fraternity as a whole is viewed as a whole and we all know the saying a few bad apples spoils the whole bushel.  

  As far as leasing or permissions go, yes they are out there, if you don't stop and ask you will never know if someone is hunting there, a lot of those properties ARE being hunted its just that people are more careful about where they park and how they enter and leave the property, visibility draws attention and sometimes too much attention.

 

 

[Buckmaster7600]

I like the thought, though. I wish something could be done about land. I live in the eastern rochester suburbs and the closest hunting land is about 40 min away and hunted pretty hard. I've gone to it many times and, on the way, I'm positive I drove past acre after acre of land privately owned that is not hunted and not because the private owners don't want it hunted but maybe because people haven't asked, or the owner wants a few bucks lease and can't find the people.  I'm surprised at how hard it is to find land to lease. 
When it's come up in the past private owners rightfully don't want more of their tax money going to subsidize people like me with the state giving money to private owners maybe to entice them to allow hunters. I do feel like there has to be a program the state could enact that helps encourage private owners to allow hunting. The current thing I see in the DEC guide about "ask before you hunt" is useless. I've never in my life seen such a sign on private land. 
I'm also willing to pay for land--up to $20/acre to hunt it, which seems a standard price. And I'm surrounded but farms and land here but I see no leases come up. I've not done the "knock on all the doors" thing yet but in the age of the internet there has to be a better way to hook hunters up with land. We have tons of land in NY and tons of deer (too many according to DEC). It should be easier than this.

Why should the state subsidize landowners? Where would the money come from? I know me personally it would need to be a substantial amount of money to allow someone to hunt my property. I would likely laugh in someone's face at the 20$ an acre offer.


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[SteveB]

4 hours ago, Storm914 said:

Yes you all make great points but with so much state land around seems reasonable that they could rotate some of them just to see what happens but may be you guys are right they would probably mess it up anyway

If there is so much around, why is the hunting seen as poor?

Close some and the rest gets hit harder - how does this help?

[Hunter007]

7 hours ago, Core said:

Again, some spots of land are low on bucks because the hunters there are fighting over scraps as it is. Many will be happy as a clam to even take a single doe, so more restrictions mean lowering their odds of a harvest even further. Now that this year I've been on private land and I have seen what it can be (see deer every time I hunt) it is shocking to me how hard the land I hunted prior two years was to pull deer out 

Had same experience 

Maybe they could do a lottery in some sections of state land like other states do .  Seems like they could do more for the  hunters that are willing to pay more but not on the level of going and buying there own land just for hunting . 

I think they have done a lottery thing In one local park in western ny if I'm not mistaken . Don't remember the name or details about it though .

But I remember reading  people saying they pulled out some big bucks out of there  when they did that . 

[Core]

21 hours ago, Storm914 said:

Maybe they could do a lottery in some sections of state land like other states do .  Seems like they could do more for the  hunters that are willing to pay more but not on the level of going and buying there own land just for hunting . 

I think they have done a lottery thing In one local park in western ny if I'm not mistaken . Don't remember the name or details about it though .

But I remember reading  people saying they pulled out some big bucks out of there  when they did that . 

I wouldn't mind if some local town-owned land allowed hunting. Fairport NY does, but I never see people parked at the spots and as they only allow town residents to get the permit, the rest of us just drive through unable to touch.

[Core]

On 11/19/2017 at 12:16 PM, Buckmaster7600 said:

Why should the state subsidize landowners? Where would the money come from? I know me personally it would need to be a substantial amount of money to allow someone to hunt my property. I would likely laugh in someone's face at the 20$ an acre offer.


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$20/acre is pretty fair. Your land may be worth more than that to you, but not on the market. State shouldn't subsidize. Merely act as a relationship maker in some capacity. Maybe a private entity could as well, there may be a market for it bigger than the current lease sites, which seem to never have land available at least not in my neck of the woods.

[Core]

On 11/19/2017 at 11:36 AM, reeltime said:

i can not ever see them shutting down state land to allow the herd to increase, its a double edge sword. First and foremost you are taking away available land from those that helped to PAY for that land. second of all you shut down one piece of property all those folks are going to a different piece of property and just adding more pressure there.

 

as far as all the private land goes and why some of it is off limits I would say here are a few reasons,,, and I am not saying folks on here are like this but from personal experience this is what I have seen.

First of all we live in different times, it is not like it was 30 years ago and this is what I mean by that;

a- people today are NOT very trusting towards strangers, and i guess for good reason. people are just not going to be very open to inviting a complete stranger onto their property knowing they are going to be carrying a gun or bow. lets face reality most of these people only know hunting from what they see on the morning or evening news and if that's all you ever see about hunting then all hunters are nothing more than unsafe slobs that either shoot houses or each other.  So put yourself in their shoes, if a complete stranger walked up to your door and asked you if they could hunt right next to your home would you just say yeah go ahead no problem.....

 

b- society has become a sue happy society and quite frankly people are afraid of getting sued whether there is any merit to those fears or not its a strong fear.

The older landowners have seen it all, dealt with it all, and they are just sick of dealing with the problems. If you don't or never have owned enough property in a hunting area then no disrespect but you can not even fathom the problems we have had and continue to have even with posters on every tree.

People have no respect for landowners or for other people in general, they walk right by the signs, when caught you wouldn't believe some of the stories you hear as an excuse.  driving on fields, shooting too close to our farm  animals, pushing down fences, leaving gates open, leaving trash behind, shooting towards and or hitting farm buildings or houses. Theft of the landowners stands, camera's, blinds.

We as a hunting society over the years have paved a road that is only getting harder for the next generation to navigate. maybe not us as individuals on this board but our fellow hunting fraternity as a whole is viewed as a whole and we all know the saying a few bad apples spoils the whole bushel.  

  As far as leasing or permissions go, yes they are out there, if you don't stop and ask you will never know if someone is hunting there, a lot of those properties ARE being hunted its just that people are more careful about where they park and how they enter and leave the property, visibility draws attention and sometimes too much attention.

 

 

I believe it. If I ever own land I will have trip wires and punji traps around the perimeter.

[LET EM GROW]

All they need to do is break out the heavy equipment and manage these forests like they should, and like other states do with there state lands. Have them farmed, managed and timbered etc.. Look at Missouri, they farm there state owned lands... I did notice the Naples location picked up some disks and tractor and such for ground working. Why cant there be a lottery system or draw of some sort for farmers to work those fallow fields on state lands free of charge. Between timber work and growing crops, the quality of hunting would increase incredibly..

[Hunter007]

5 hours ago, Core said:

$20/acre is pretty fair. Your land may be worth more than that to you, but not on the market. State shouldn't subsidize. Merely act as a relationship maker in some capacity. Maybe a private entity could as well, there may be a market for it bigger than the current lease sites, which seem to never have land available at least not in my neck of the woods.

I know it's free market but for me 20 /Acre is to high to  pay for a lease in the blind unless I new for sure there were some really big racks on that property. 

Especially since usually hunting  leases are always far away from me . 

Edited November 21, 2017 by Storm914

[Buckmaster7600]

$20/acre is pretty fair. Your land may be worth more than that to you, but not on the market. State shouldn't subsidize. Merely act as a relationship maker in some capacity. Maybe a private entity could as well, there may be a market for it bigger than the current lease sites, which seem to never have land available at least not in my neck of the woods.

20$ an acre may be fair but my point is 20$ an acre isn't near enough money to make it worth the hassle and I would be willing to bet that I'm not the only landowner that feels that way.


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[Hunter007]

1 hour ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

20$ an acre may be fair but my point is 20$ an acre isn't near enough money to make it worth the hassle and I would be willing to bet that I'm not the only landowner that feels that way.


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I think if  it's a,land that the landowner lives on he is not going to want strangers near his home hunting  even for $40 a acre  .

So that rules out a lot of land out there I think  I know near me its almost impossible to get a lease and the ones 

There are they want $$$$$ much more then $20 acre . 

[growalot]

Hunters did it to themselves...over 20 years of hassles,words,nasty phone calls...Oh and love this talking about it on here,a hunting site, and getting dumped on by more than a few on how I was the bad neighbor. Well last night after 20 + years and they FINALLY. made their first call to ask for permission to recover. What they got was an OK and another neighbors phone number. Now if they do ..because I'd planned on hunting there anyways this morning I'll offer to get the Gator to get the deer out. Should I see they found it. It's a hell of a drag up hill.....All it took was a simple call...20 years I have been saying it.....So when you act like idiots you get treated like one...Because of 20 + years...nearly being shot several time..daughter nearly shot...I would NEVER give permission for anyone to hunt my land...I actually don't like hunters,most talk out both sides of their faces..If nothing else the internet taught me that...just being honest....