Why it’s high time to make peace with crossbow hunting

[Culvercreek hunt club]

8 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

Phew - you were the one I was particularly worried about!

He's a pretty darn good shot with a gun so i would think since the crossbow is a gun in many's view he would be just as good with the crossbow. lol

[Doewhacker]

34 minutes ago, Belo said:

So you called me butt hurt and challenged my hunting style remember? I didn't start the dick measuring contest. you did.

But thanks for partially answering my question. You stated that you do not hunt pressured land, so no sir you don't get what most of us who live near big cities have to deal with.

I do worry about me, I don't quit after the first week either, not sure where you got that from. I hunt all 3. But again, I was answering a question that was posed to the group, not just spouting off nonsense for no reason.

Finally, I have no doubt you're a good hunter even if you didn't answer one of my question. 

What? I stated I hunt land open to the public and that its not as bad as you make it out to be. How the hell would you know how bad it is if you don't hunt anywhere but the two posted parcels of land you do?

You are the one that said deer don't move which is incorrect, you seem to have an issue of stating an opinion and when someone corrects you, you argue which would mean you are the one in the measuring contest. I could care less what you believe or how or what you hunt with.

As for the quitting after one week..."Looking forward to laying on the couch and a week away from the woods. Burned out. "

 

Now back to crossbows being the end of the world, better go kill deer cause there won't be any left next year!

 

 

• Sunday at 09:28 AM

[steve863]

11 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

Phew - you were the one I was particularly worried about!

 

You should be!  I'm an equal opportunity deerslayer.  I don't discriminate on size, gender, sexual orientation, etc.  If I have a tag for it, it will get shot at!!  But I will stick to my gun and pass on the crossbow.

 

 

 

[Doewhacker]

40 minutes ago, Belo said:

Yes more hunters means less deer = disadvantage

Too bad the DEC has no way of controlling doe take, like a permit or something. That would be a good idea!

[Five Seasons]

13 minutes ago, Doewhacker said:

What? I stated I hunt land open to the public and that its not as bad as you make it out to be. How the hell would you know how bad it is if you don't hunt anywhere but the two posted parcels of land you do?

You are the one that said deer don't move which is incorrect, you seem to have an issue of stating an opinion and when someone corrects you, you argue which would mean you are the one in the measuring contest. I could care less what you believe or how or what you hunt with.

As for the quitting after one week..."Looking forward to laying on the couch and a week away from the woods. Burned out. "

 

Now back to crossbows being the end of the world, better go kill deer cause there won't be any left next year!

 

 

• Sunday at 09:28 AM

dude. You said you don't see other hunters. I don't care if it's owned by the queen of england or open to anyone with a drivers license. unpressured is unpressured. I am surrounded by pressure on a 30 acre plot, and my other piece of land is a 90 minute drive. I did it last weekend, but it's tough to get there with 3 kids. yeah woah is me. btw I too hunted public land and did well for myself, but it's a lot harder to hunt pressured land. Fact. 

Both these spots are instant kills during bow season. Nobody hunts then but dad and I.

Watching football Sunday afternoon after a morning hunt and working Monday through Friday is not quitting. I'll be out next weekend. Good day to you.

[Five Seasons]

18 minutes ago, Doewhacker said:

Too bad the DEC has no way of controlling doe take, like a permit or something. That would be a good idea!

this is a whole separate topic. One that everyone on this site knows is flawed based on land access. and we're not talking doe. we're talking those things with bones sticking out of their head.

[WNYBuckHunter]

59 minutes ago, Belo said:

ok, so moving on. The opinion comes in to question on how much it will affect the other hunters. I don't believe the sky is falling, but I do believe that more hunters does affect my hunt. It's a harder to pill to swallow if one believes (like me and others) if this new hunter is not playing by the same rules. To head off one of your questions. Would I would be ok with more compound bow hunters? The answer is not a simple yes, but the pill goes down smoother.

But you see, thats where your line of thinking hits a brick wall. You will be playing by the same rules. The same choice of weapons will be available to everyone. If you choose to limit yourself to a particular weapon, then thats your choice. Just like guys now that are shooting recurves are choosing to limit themselves.

[Doewhacker]

10 minutes ago, Belo said:

this is a whole separate topic. One that everyone on this site knows is flawed based on land access. and we're not talking doe. we're talking those things with bones sticking out of their head.

So you are saying you don’t want others to hunt bucks because they might kill one before you do. 

DMP are in fact the biggest tool the DEC uses to control deer populations. 

[Five Seasons]

18 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

But you see, thats where your line of thinking hits a brick wall. You will be playing by the same rules. The same choice of weapons will be available to everyone. If you choose to limit yourself to a particular weapon, then thats your choice. Just like guys now that are shooting recurves are choosing to limit themselves.

your point is correct. But I stick by my belief (we're no longer in the fact game), that archery was meant to be a challenge. It wasn't meant to be easy. It's my opinion that the crossbow lessens that challenge. No it's not the wondergun, but it's not the same as a compound.

13 minutes ago, Doewhacker said:

So you are saying you don’t want others to hunt bucks because they might kill one before you do. 

DMP are in fact the biggest tool the DEC uses to control deer populations. 

what? I'm saying I like the challenge and natural movement of deer during archery. More pressure disrupts something I value deeply. Obviously I wouldn't be so adamant if I didn't care. Think about the Bills playing in Toronto. Bills fans were pissed because it disrupted something they held near and dear to them. It changed a product many felt wasn't broken. 

the biggest tool does not mean it isn't flawed. Look at how vast 8f is. I see most roadkills in suburban unhuntable areas. Not near the huntable farms and wooded areas crawling with hunters. 

Edited November 28, 2017 by Belo

[airedale]

I put this idea forward in another thread and will throw it out again as a way to settle this unending argument.

Been watching this "FULL INCLUSION"  banter-rancor for years with all factions entrenched in their positions on the matter with no positions being changed. I say before making any laws the DEC should put forth something like a trial judged by a large panel of actual hunters, "our peers" not politicians who do not have a clue or any experience and whom we know will pass laws just to increase revenues.

This panel or group (The larger the number the better) would be comprised actual hunters that do not hunt with archery equipment or have any connection to archery so there will be no bias toward any one weapon. 

Let each faction (Traditional Bow, Compound Bow, Crossbow) present their position to that panel on what they believe the essence of hunting with archery equipment is and their give opinion on how fair for all archery seasons should be implemented for all. 

Each faction should lay it all out on the table giving a live in depth demonstration on how their equipment operates including firing arrows and bolts at target of various distances. Also I think it would be good for each member of the panel of hunters to give each weapon a try for themselves, nothing like first hand experience as it is always the best teacher.

After all factions make their best case for fairness let that large panel of hunters decide on resolving all this as to when each weapon's season should be allowed with fairness to all who participate with such weapons and let the chips fall where they may and abide by whatever their decision is and move on.

SO WHAT SAY YOU?

Al

[Doewhacker]

45 minutes ago, Doewhacker said:

Yes more hunters means less deer = disadvantage

This is what you said. ^

 

9 minutes ago, Belo said:

I'm saying I like the challenge and natural movement of deer during archery. More pressure disrupts something I value deeply. Obviously I wouldn't be so adamant if I didn't care

I'm not sure how you can try and dispute and twist what you said the first time around.  

Wouldn't less deer=more challenge? It does on this side of the state, I find it more enjoyable in fact.

The bottom line is you are gathering a state wide hunting pressure opinion based on two smaller sized parcels that you hunt. That's narrow vision.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I would guess gun hunters on the most are a lazy type. Not all by any means but i would guess most in the big picture. They are not going to go thru all the pain it takes to hunt with an Xbow just to get an extra deer. Some will yes. Most gun hunters are brown and down or meat hunters per say., Again in the bigger picture.

They really are a pain to hunt with this coming from a guy that only shoots bigger mature : Trophy: deer. Unless you have a blind you can sit in with shooting sticks they kinda suck. They are heavy, Get stuck on everything, A pain trying to get up into a tree and a real pain to carry with a stand on your back.Try to Recock one in a climber? Fun Time!  Add on top of that is once you cock the damn thing its like having a bear trap in your hands that if go off with your hand in the wrong spot will take off some fingers.  They are cool but not the easiest tool to harvest a deer with.

[Five Seasons]

37 minutes ago, Doewhacker said:

 

Wouldn't less deer=more challenge? It does on this side of the state, I find it more enjoyable in fact.

The bottom line is you are gathering a state wide hunting pressure opinion based on two smaller sized parcels that you hunt. That's narrow vision.

That's the seesaw that rocks back and forth with no facts backing either side. What level of challenge is acceptable? Nobody can say as we all hunt for different reasons, in different areas, with different physical capabilities and on different schedules. That's honestly I believe what fuels the debate and because no side can prove or disprove the other, it will never be settled.

Ultimately my stance has remained relatively unchanged. Make it easy for disabled and elderly, even if some people take advantage of it. But don't try and fix what ultimately isn't broken. Besides the disabled, who is really pushing crossbows? You're ignorant if you don't believe there isn't a multi million dollar industry behind it. 2 weeks of primetime crossbow really isn't that bad.

btw, I've been on this site long enough to know that my experience is not unique and is shared by the majority, not the minority.Not just a narrow vision.

[Doewhacker]

http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/hdrudeer10.pdf

Page 17 is the results page from this 2010 survey, I found it interesting because it counters what many of the doom and gloom types are afraid of.

 

[chas0218]

3 hours ago, Doewhacker said:

Wouldn't less deer=more challenge?

Not really, it means

more hunters=more deer pressure

more deer pressure=less deer movement.

 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

7 minutes ago, chas0218 said:

Not really, it means

more hunters=more deer pressure

more deer pressure=less deer movement.

 

Some of the best late season hunting I have had is on parcels that are hunted low impact surrounded by land that gets hunted hard all season. One reason why I love that late Muzzleloader week. And it doesn't have to be a big tract of land. Last year on the last Sunday of ML there was me an another on a 30 acre patch. The deer were on their feet during the day (except the 5 we took, well they were on their feet but not for long. )

[chas0218]

1 hour ago, Doewhacker said:

http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/hdrudeer10.pdf

Page 17 is the results page from this 2010 survey, I found it interesting because it counters what many of the doom and gloom types are afraid of.

 

Haha did you read the whole survey? Straight from the survey; 39% of big game hunters who do not hunt with a bow “definitely” or “probably” would use one. So that would mean 39% that don't bow hunt would buy a crossbow and head into the woods. That means 171,300 (using this past years license sale info.) more people will be in the woods. 

Below I also outlined some of the other opinions of hunters that the survey showed. So if we are taking it for gospel then we should do all of what the majority of hunters favored. You can't pick and choose what you want to use in an argument when stating statistics. If you did you would be no better than the liberal media.

That same survey has the following:

• Set mandatory antler restrictions to reduce harvest of yearling bucks during all deer hunting seasons (youth would be exempt) (57% good idea, 34% bad idea).
• Allow antlerless harvest only through the use of DMPs (45% good idea, 39% bad idea).
• Create a new muzzleloader season in the SZ that only allows harvest of antlerless deer (45% good idea, 41% bad idea).
• In WMUs where the deer population is too high, make part of archery and muzzleloader seasons antlerless-only (55% good idea, 27% bad idea).

[chas0218]

28 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Some of the best late season hunting I have had is on parcels that are hunted low impact surrounded by land that gets hunted hard all season. One reason why I love that late Muzzleloader week. And it doesn't have to be a big tract of land. Last year on the last Sunday of ML there was me an another on a 30 acre patch. The deer were on their feet during the day (except the 5 we took, well they were on their feet but not for long. )

But you proved the point, where you hunted with less pressure there was deer movement unlike where there was heavy pressure. In a state land situation where you don't have a choice then it would impact you more.

[Doewhacker]

1 hour ago, chas0218 said:

Not really, it means

more hunters=more deer pressure

more deer pressure=less deer movement.

 

Already covered all of that, re read it.

 

[Doewhacker]

37 minutes ago, chas0218 said:

Haha did you read the whole survey? Straight from the survey; 39% of big game hunters who do not hunt with a bow “definitely” or “probably” would use one. So that would mean 39% that don't bow hunt would buy a crossbow and head into the woods. That means 171,300 (using this past years license sale info.) more people will be in the woods. 

Below I also outlined some of the other opinions of hunters that the survey showed. So if we are taking it for gospel then we should do all of what the majority of hunters favored. You can't pick and choose what you want to use in an argument when stating statistics. If you did you would be no better than the liberal media.

That same survey has the following:

• Set mandatory antler restrictions to reduce harvest of yearling bucks during all deer hunting seasons (youth would be exempt) (57% good idea, 34% bad idea).
• Allow antlerless harvest only through the use of DMPs (45% good idea, 39% bad idea).
• Create a new muzzleloader season in the SZ that only allows harvest of antlerless deer (45% good idea, 41% bad idea).
• In WMUs where the deer population is too high, make part of archery and muzzleloader seasons antlerless-only (55% good idea, 27% bad idea).

Kind of a big assumption to go from probably to definitely across the board don't you think? lol

You might find a difference between a survey asking you would use one if legal and the number of people who actually do use them. But that doesn't matter because its not the end of the world.

This whole post was one big assumption. I provided a link I found interesting from a 2009 survey released in 2010 that countered the doom and gloom and then you kind of went off on a tangent.

[chas0218]

9 minutes ago, Doewhacker said:

Kind of a big assumption to go from probably to definitely across the board don't you think? lol

You might find a difference between a survey asking you would use one if legal and the number of people who actually do use them. But that doesn't matter because its not the end of the world.

This whole post was one big assumption. I provided a link I found interesting from a 2009 survey released in 2010 that countered the doom and gloom and then you kind of went off on a tangent.

No tangent I just used in the information within the survey you provided, all information pertinent being it validated or debunked (you be the judge) the argument that we should follow what the survey suggests because most were in favor. It just so happened that survey had other information in it that could provide information about the type of hunters that took the survey. I would be curious if they were to put out a survey again if the results would be similar. I took the survey and the questions gave you 5 answers to choose from if you choose definitely or probably that was above a "does not pertain",  "most likely not", or "definitely not". Take from it what you want but you have to look at more than 1 question in a survey to get an idea of what is going on. 

[fasteddie]

I get pics of deer on the trail cams early morning before light and in the PM after light . None of them are passing by the cameras during the daytime which to me means they aren't moving .

Three guys lease the property west of where I hunt and I have yet to see one of them out there . An older guy hunts & owns the property east of the land I hunt and he sits in his heated "Condo" and has deer and turkeys in his field during the day light hours . 

[nyantler]

8 hours ago, Belo said:

 

You're putting words in my mouth. Lets look at the line of questions and answers. You asked this question above. I responded about the range difference. It's simple fact. Not disputable that more hunters harvesting more deer will decrease the odds of others. There are a finite amount of deer. We all agree on this right?

ok, so moving on. The opinion comes in to question on how much it will affect the other hunters. I don't believe the sky is falling, but I do believe that more hunters does affect my hunt. It's a harder to pill to swallow if one believes (like me and others) if this new hunter is not playing by the same rules. To head off one of your questions. Would I would be ok with more compound bow hunters? The answer is not a simple yes, but the pill goes down smoother.

I'm an engineer so excuse me for thinking so logically, but simply put. Yes more hunters means less deer = disadvantage. We will all be just fine if full inclusion passes but I was simply trying to answer your question with fact, not opinion. 

Sorry but I fail to see the logic... and for the record there are a great many compound bow hunters that can shoot and do shoot 45 yards, some out to 60. Just because you drive a train doesn't mean you're logical

 

[airedale]

7 hours ago, airedale said:

I put this idea forward in another thread and will throw it out again as a way to settle this unending argument.

Been watching this "FULL INCLUSION"  banter-rancor for years with all factions entrenched in their positions on the matter with no positions being changed. I say before making any laws the DEC should put forth something like a trial judged by a large panel of actual hunters, "our peers" not politicians who do not have a clue or any experience and whom we know will pass laws just to increase revenues.

This panel or group (The larger the number the better) would be comprised actual hunters that do not hunt with archery equipment or have any connection to archery so there will be no bias toward any one weapon. 

Let each faction (Traditional Bow, Compound Bow, Crossbow) present their position to that panel on what they believe the essence of hunting with archery equipment is and their give opinion on how fair for all archery seasons should be implemented for all. 

Each faction should lay it all out on the table giving a live in depth demonstration on how their equipment operates including firing arrows and bolts at target of various distances. Also I think it would be good for each member of the panel of hunters to give each weapon a try for themselves, nothing like first hand experience as it is always the best teacher.

After all factions make their best case for fairness let that large panel of hunters decide on resolving all this as to when each weapon's season should be allowed with fairness to all who participate with such weapons and let the chips fall where they may and abide by whatever their decision is and move on.

SO WHAT SAY YOU?

Al

 THE SILENCE TO THIS PROPOSAL IS DEAFENING!

As for me I would be all for it win lose or draw.

Al

[nyantler]

6 hours ago, Belo said:

That's the seesaw that rocks back and forth with no facts backing either side. What level of challenge is acceptable? Nobody can say as we all hunt for different reasons, in different areas, with different physical capabilities and on different schedules. That's honestly I believe what fuels the debate and because no side can prove or disprove the other, it will never be settled.

Ultimately my stance has remained relatively unchanged. Make it easy for disabled and elderly, even if some people take advantage of it. But don't try and fix what ultimately isn't broken. Besides the disabled, who is really pushing crossbows? You're ignorant if you don't believe there isn't a multi million dollar industry behind it. 2 weeks of primetime crossbow really isn't that bad.

btw, I've been on this site long enough to know that my experience is not unique and is shared by the majority, not the minority.Not just a narrow vision.

There is a multi million dollar industry behind everything that has to do with hunting, so why pick on the crossbow. The same people that pushed compound bows, and inline muzzleloaders are pushing crossbows by your logic. The truth is that there can only be a multi-million dollar business if hunters are very interested in buying and using the item. Hunters seem to like the idea of a crossbow in NY