Argument Over Shortening Gun Season

[Doc]

I have to laugh when those arguments start about shortening the gun season (or not). Things have gone nearly completely quiet around here for the last couple of weeks. State parking lots are nearly deserted. Very few cars parked along side of the road. And almost no shooting at all going on. The whole argument is a joke from both sides. We are arguing over is a period deer hunting time that is virtually unused. The handful of deer that are taken in the later times of deer season, are not even significant. I wish that one year, the DEC would publish exact numbers per date. I think hunters on both sides of the issue of season length would see that the whole controversy means nothing at all.

[NFA-ADK]

It does if you are one of the hunters who likes to go in late when other hunters have given up, or if you are one of the hunters like the many trackers upstate that only hunt when snow is on the ground.  A short season may give you no snow and no chance at tracking which is how many get there deer who use tracking to hunt. 

[IRL]

The usual frustrated hunters that are not seeing the deer they think they should be seeing. Blame the DEC, coyotes, insurance companies, not enough logging, doe permits, hippies, bigfoot ...


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[wolc123]

I saw more deer action on the last (3rd weekend) of Southern zone gun season than I did on all the days prior combined.   There must be something to that "second rut".   

[Four Season Whitetail's]

6 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

I saw more deer action on the last (3rd weekend) of Southern zone gun season than I did on all the days prior combined.   There must be something to that "second rut".   

Really?  When was the last weekend of the south deer season?

[Four Season Whitetail's]

3 hours ago, Doc said:

I have to laugh when those arguments start about shortening the gun season (or not). Things have gone nearly completely quiet around here for the last couple of weeks. State parking lots are nearly deserted. Very few cars parked along side of the road. And almost no shooting at all going on. The whole argument is a joke from both sides. We are arguing over is a period deer hunting time that is virtually unused. The handful of deer that are taken in the later times of deer season, are not even significant. I wish that one year, the DEC would publish exact numbers per date. I think hunters on both sides of the issue of season length would see that the whole controversy means nothing at all.

The North needs a season like the South. 8-9-10 weeks of Gun season is way to much. People dont hunt later in the season because the deer disappear after heavy pressure the first few weeks.

[Hunter007]

Strange argument if you dont get crap in 3 weeks making  it one week not going to help  I would think .

[Jdubs]

Everyone will have their own perspective considering the size of the state.  In my case, I'm still in the woods with tags to fill.  God hates a quitter!

[Hunter007]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

I have to laugh when those arguments start about shortening the gun season (or not). Things have gone nearly completely quiet around here for the last couple of weeks. State parking lots are nearly deserted. Very few cars parked along side of the road. And almost no shooting at all going on. The whole argument is a joke from both sides. We are arguing over is a period deer hunting time that is virtually unused. The handful of deer that are taken in the later times of deer season, are not even significant. I wish that one year, the DEC would publish exact numbers per date. I think hunters on both sides of the issue of season length would see that the whole controversy means nothing at all.

Well the thing I alway here from hunters at least  that I know is well if you dont go the first 3 days it' over your not going to see or get anything .

 

[G-Man]

It would be nice to split up the season.. 10 days. A week off and 5 days.. Most game is taken on opening day. And 22nd day..then thanksgiving weekend. Close season let it alone for a full week and then reopen it.. Would be like a second opening day.. ... Personally 2 weeks of hunting with gun it way more than enough.. I put my true efforts into bow and I tagged out.. Hunting now is just an excuse to go out.. But I could do that for small game .. 

[gjs4]

Even when you look (and believe?) DEC data- it’s so evident the show about stops after the weekend following thanksgiving.


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[Larry]

The season (gun) is long enough and doesn’t need to be shortening or lengthen. I have killed more than one nice buck at the end of the gun season. The last weekend was 12/9-10 you can also say 12/16-17 or the last weekend in January if you hunt long island or the first weekend in December if you hunt up north. need I say more on last weekends. With as you say the show about stopped after the second weekend then why shorten the season if nothing is happening anyway. (They could end gun after the second weekend and move up the late bow ML season and have everything done by the first week in December.) sarcasm

Edited December 25, 2017 by Larry

[Four Season Whitetail's]

6 minutes ago, Larry said:

The season (gun) is long enough and doesn’t need to be shortening or lengthen. I have killed more than one nice buck at the end of the gun season. The last weekend was 12/9-10 you can also say 12/16-17 or the last weekend in January if you hunt long island or the first weekend in December if you hunt up north. need I say more on last weekends. With as you say the show about stopped after the second weekend then why shorten the season if nothing is happening anyway. They could end gun after the second weekend and move up the late bow ML season and have everything done by the first week in December.

The gun season downstate is fine with a month of gun season. The North does not 2 months of gun season.. One could argue about the more deer in some areas or no deer in the Dak's  but all in all 4 weeks of gun should be plenty.

Myself i would rather see the seasons changed so there would be no gun's in the Rut which would do wonders for the herd.   

A guy can dream right?

 

[Doc]

The point of this post is to note that those that have a problem with the gun season lengths in MYS are barking up the wrong tree if you want to change harvest quantities or quality with deer season lengths (shorter or longer). There seems to be a situation here in this state where season lengths reach a point of diminishing returns. Longer seasons do not automatically lead to higher harvests or hunter participation.

[Hunter007]

I think most guys give up after a few first days then you have the woods almost to your self seems like, but by that time most deer are spooked and only come out at night or find a place most hunter can not  get to . 

I don' t think shorten season will do anything except piss people off that dont have the time to hunt certain days  of the season .

 

[Robhuntandfish]

This just still perplexes me as well.  Leave the season alone. We have it good.  If you think it's too long dont hunt, but don't take it away from those who do want to or haven't filled the freezer for the family yet. Not every hunter is like us and has time set aside to go.  There are young guys with 2 jobs and a family that could really use the time to get a chance to go out.  A longer season doesn't effect you so why take it away from others.  Can never understand what a hunter would want to limit their own opportunities. Makes no sense.

[phade]

On ‎12‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 3:52 PM, Doc said:

I have to laugh when those arguments start about shortening the gun season (or not). Things have gone nearly completely quiet around here for the last couple of weeks. State parking lots are nearly deserted. Very few cars parked along side of the road. And almost no shooting at all going on. The whole argument is a joke from both sides. We are arguing over is a period deer hunting time that is virtually unused. The handful of deer that are taken in the later times of deer season, are not even significant. I wish that one year, the DEC would publish exact numbers per date. I think hunters on both sides of the issue of season length would see that the whole controversy means nothing at all.

The DEC does publish the take by date on a chart. I've seen it a handful of times. It's out there if you search for it. And by exact, I mean according to their "exact." But they do publish it.

[phade]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

The point of this post is to note that those that have a problem with the gun season lengths in MYS are barking up the wrong tree if you want to change harvest quantities or quality with deer season lengths (shorter or longer). There seems to be a situation here in this state where season lengths reach a point of diminishing returns. Longer seasons do not automatically lead to higher harvests or hunter participation.

Can you elaborate? Each day the season is open, the total harvest count for that season rises. It may not rise to your satisfaction or as high as at the start of the season, but it most certainly rises.

[Robhuntandfish]

And why does the harvest numbers need to be the only drive for the season length? Because the hunting gets tougher it needs to close?  Last I knew most of us hunt cause we love to. If it was just for the take only, I would just buy meat in cellophane.  It drives me nuts when people want to make laws that aren't needed.  There doesn't need to be a law to shorten season cause someone is sick of hunting it's ridiculous. 

[phade]

Here is the chart for 2016.

Considering that many states around NY have gun seasons that are a fraction, the data in the image has some insightful details.

What is important is that when seasons are condensed, most harvest totals do not take on as big of a hit as people think. There is limited data on this but it has been consistent. Condensing to a 7 or 9 day season here would likely result in very similar or ballpark harvest totals as our super long season. The true benefit to this is more geared around pressure and the impact on these deer from a winter mortality and herd health perspective. Our DEC will never shorten the season unless a force acts upon it IMO.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 26, 2017 by phade

[phade]

And for the record, outside of access issues/solutions, I think the single best move the DEC could make would be to run a regular season starting the Saturday after Thanksgiving for nine consecutive days or for seven consecutive and then run a two day Saturday/Sunday two weekends after the opening day.

Harvest total counts will still be very similar to final numbers in current state, pull the gun season out of the peak of the breeding, and minimize the amount of significant pressure and displacement of deer at a critical refueling time where deer need to pack on calories lost during the rut to date.

Yes I bow hunt, I gun hunt, and I MZ hunt.

[Hunter007]

53 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

This just still perplexes me as well.  Leave the season alone. We have it good.  If you think it's too long dont hunt, but don't take it away from those who do want to or haven't filled the freezer for the family yet. Not every hunter is like us and has time set aside to go.  There are young guys with 2 jobs and a family that could really use the time to get a chance to go out.  A longer season doesn't effect you so why take it away from others.  Can never understand what a hunter would want to limit their own opportunities. Makes no sense.

Exactly if you like hunting why would you want less time doing it .

For what .

For a easier chance at a bigger buck .

To those who think that  way. how about you just spent more time becoming a better Hunter/tracker  there is know guarantee that just because the season is shorter you're going to get that bigger Buck anyway .

 

 

[phade]

1 hour ago, Storm914 said:

Exactly if you like hunting why would you want less time doing it .

For what .

For a easier chance at a bigger buck .

To those who think that  way. how about you just spent more time becoming a better Hunter/tracker  there is know guarantee that just because the season is shorter you're going to get that bigger Buck anyway .

 

 

I'm not going to be all high and mighty or anything, but I think you'd be surprised that it is the opposite. The people who most want the shorter season in my experience are those who do kill good bucks or believe the state could employ better strategies to help the health of the herd. In large, the DEC has a disconnect with hunter sentiment and responsibility (they define their goals different than from what some hunters would). I don't like to generalize, but I think most supporters would fall into those two buckets (sometimes they are the same bucket). My guess is those against it don't spend a lot of time diving into the management component or are fine with the recreational nature of hunting. Neither POV is wrong.

As for evidence to my first two sentences above, the people supporting in this thread likely killed bucks in the top 5-10% of all bucks killed on this site this year or in the state this year from an age/score perspective.

 

[Hunter007]

1 hour ago, phade said:

I'm not going to be all high and mighty or anything, but I think you'd be surprised that it is the opposite. The people who most want the shorter season in my experience are those who do kill good bucks or believe the state could employ better strategies to help the health of the herd. In large, the DEC has a disconnect with hunter sentiment and responsibility (they define their goals different than from what some hunters would). I don't like to generalize, but I think most supporters would fall into those two buckets (sometimes they are the same bucket). My guess is those against it don't spend a lot of time diving into the management component or are fine with the recreational nature of hunting. Neither POV is wrong.

As for evidence to my first two sentences above, the people supporting in this thread likely killed bucks in the top 5-10% of all bucks killed on this site this year or in the state this year from an age/score perspective.

 

Well if those guys are so fanatic about horn hunting they can just high fence there property and only shoot the big ones in it if horn is all they are looking for with out limiting other Hunters season  .

I don't buy the idea that guys that are shooting big bucks now would want a shorter season unless they  are shooting fenced deer and think a shorter season is going to some how make the wild deer grow into the fenced deer you see in some of those hunting shows . More then likely the guys who think like that are still going to be disappointed. Even if you shorten the season I would be willing to bet.

[gjs4]

It is astounding to note the disconnect between people on this forum and the rest of the world. Most fall in the “I’m going to do what I’m going to do and that’s my business and it’s legal“. That does affect other people. Lots of them. I loved the line about filling freezers for their families. This isn’t grocery shopping and that entitlement is why there is a polarized hatred between us. The last one.... my favorite if you will....is this big buck hunting group reference. People who don’t consistently kill big bucks hang out on this forum in tit for tat dialogue. The post above couldn’t be more incorrect. Until NY hunters realize every time they pressure deer, shoot at deer, kill deer, break game laws or even just use every legal tag they have is where the problem truly lies; no one will be happy bedsides the license selling entity.


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