Argument Over Shortening Gun Season

[stubborn1VT]

  

8 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

But look at the bright side   In 35 years of hunting I  see less and less hunters every year it seems like   . So the deer are going to get older here more then likely with out doing anything . 

So why would the state that already is losing money because of less hunting licenses being sold make the season sorter ?

Is that going to help license sales I doubt it.

I don't think most hunters are worried about license sales. 

Your observations are subjective, just like everyone else's.  You "think" you see less hunters.  Believe it or not, that is not true everywhere. 

Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont all have shorter regular seasons.  None of those states "make a living on trophy hunting".  

I can see both sides when it comes to shortening the season.  It would put less stress on the deer herd, but that's not the concern of many hunters.  It would also reduce the opportunity for some hunters to get out and fill tags.  New York is fairly unique because of the varying climate, topography, deer/hunter density, agriculture etc.  I wouldn't want to try to manage its deer herd.  

I don't know what has you so fired up Storm, but take a breath and enjoy your holidays!

[Hunter007]

4 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

Always good to check facts before assuming (second time recommended on this thread):

http://www.dec.ny.gov/permits/26368.html

Hunting license sales are up not down over the past 10 years.  

And since you asked, no I don’t think crossbow inclusion will have any significant impact on the number of mature bucks in NY.  Just my opinion. 

Your  not reading the data right the data shows  there close to flat in the last 10 years  .

Even though the population has grown in the last 10 years which means there down overall same with fishing licenses.

 

[Hunter007]

3 minutes ago, stubborn1VT said:

  

I don't think most hunters are worried about license sales. 

Your observations are subjective, just like everyone else's.  You "think" you see less hunters.  Believe it or not, that is not true everywhere. 

Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont all have shorter regular seasons.  None of those states "make a living on trophy hunting".  

I can see both sides when it comes to shortening the season.  It would put less stress on the deer herd, but that's not the concern of many hunters.  It would also reduce the opportunity for some hunters to get out and fill tags.  New York is fairly unique because of the varying climate, topography, deer/hunter density, agriculture etc.  I wouldn't want to try to manage its deer herd.  

I don't know what has you so fired up Storm, but take a breath and enjoy your holidays!

Ok shorten the season what you want me to say lol 

I don't think it will make a difference. One way or the other except inconvenience some Hunters.

 

[stubborn1VT]

Actually, I don't want you to say/type anything.  If it wont' make a difference, then just let it go...

[moog5050]

4 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

Your  not reading the data right the data shows  there close to flat in the last 10 years  .

Even though the population has grown in the last 10 years which means there down overall same with fishing licenses.

 

“So why would the state that already is losing money because of less hunting licenses being sold make the season shorter “

your statement is wrong.  There are NOT less hunting licenses being sold.  Once again, you lose credibility when you try to defend a patently incorrect statement.  I can read the table just fine.  

And for what it’s worth, NYS population has not grown.  See https://www.health.ny.gov/statistics/vital_statistics/2015/#population

So your attempt to recast your first statement would still be incorrect.  Any other inaccurate assumptions you want to make Storm.  Lol. 

[Robhuntandfish]

If we cancel the gun season then there will be huge Boone and crocket bucks everywhere, you'll be tripping over them, swatting them away like flies, like seagulls at the beach.  

Maybe we should shorten the season, have ARs of 5 points on one side, can only hunt with traditional bows, outlaw doe urine and set the hunting time to only a half hour after sunriae and before sunset.

That should do it.....lol. Huge bucks for everyone that still hunts. 

Edited December 27, 2017 by Robhuntandfish

[Hunter007]

1 minute ago, moog5050 said:

“So why would the state that already is losing money because of less hunting licenses being sold make the season shorter “

your statement is wrong.  There are NOT less hunting licenses being sold.  Once again, you lose credibility when you try to defend a patently incorrect statement.  I can read the table just fine.  

And for what it’s worth, NYS population has not grown.  See https://www.health.ny.gov/statistics/vital_statistics/2015/#population

So your attempt to recast your first statement would still be incorrect.  Any other inaccurate assumptions you want to make Storm.  Lol. 

Some  one here actually said they're selling more licenses but it's actually to none hunters  people cheeting the system   getting their kids and wives to buy hunting licenses even though they don't hunt  so they can hunt more themselfs 

You should probably argue with him I think it was Four seasons maybe but I don't remember for sure .

I can tell you opening day you see a lot less cars on the side of the road on public land then you use  to 30 years ago

[moog5050]

Yeah .... OK Storm.  

[Hunter007]

2 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

Yeah .... OK Storm.  

You don't think so?

 

[Dom]

17 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

If we cancel the gun season then there will be huge Boone and crocket bucks everywhere, you'll be tripping over them, swatting them away like flies, like seagulls at the beach.  

Maybe we should shorten the season, have ARs of 5 points on one side, can only hunt with traditional bows, outlaw doe urine and set the hunting time to only a half hour after sunriae and before sunset.

That should do it.....lol. Huge bucks for everyone that still hunts. 

Cancel the Buck hunting for a season and only Does can be hunted/taken.Again another thread turned wrong.

[ADK Native]

Hunters who want a shorter season have the right to limited the season as they see fit.  They can limit their hunting to the first five days, the last five days or anything in between.  

[gjs4]

Storm if you’re going to huff aerosol paint- make it blaze orange to keep some safety with your bias.


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[Hunter007]

11 minutes ago, gjs4 said:

Storm if you’re going to huff aerosol paint- make it blaze orange to keep some safety with your bias.


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I have no bias yea I'm sure less hunting time will equal more big deer but at the same time less opportunity for hunters to  get those deer . It's a double-edged sword don't you think. 

Of course if your main thing is not gun hunting  then it is definitely good for you.

 

 

[Bowshotmuzzleloader]

Im still trying to figure out whats wrong with the seasons we have..

 

[Hunter007]

3 minutes ago, Bowshotmuzzleloader said:

Im still trying to figure out whats wrong with the seasons we have..

 

They don't want to gun hunt as much I guess 

[ELMER J. FUDD]

3 hours ago, moog5050 said:

“So why would the state that already is losing money because of less hunting licenses being sold make the season shorter “

your statement is wrong.  There are NOT less hunting licenses being sold.  Once again, you lose credibility when you try to defend a patently incorrect statement.  I can read the table just fine.  

And for what it’s worth, NYS population has not grown.  See https://www.health.ny.gov/statistics/vital_statistics/2015/#population

So your attempt to recast your first statement would still be incorrect.  Any other inaccurate assumptions you want to make Storm.  Lol. 

There's a mug for situations like this. Lol!

 

[Doc]

16 hours ago, phade said:

Can you elaborate? Each day the season is open, the total harvest count for that season rises. It may not rise to your satisfaction or as high as at the start of the season, but it most certainly rises.

Yes, I am talking about harvests of any meaningful significance. I am sure that at any point in the season, some guy, somewhere does get a deer. But in reality it is almost statistically insignificant in terms of what those that would shorten seasons would like to accomplish.

[Doc]

16 hours ago, phade said:

Here is the chart for 2016.

Considering that many states around NY have gun seasons that are a fraction, the data in the image has some insightful details.

What is important is that when seasons are condensed, most harvest totals do not take on as big of a hit as people think. There is limited data on this but it has been consistent. Condensing to a 7 or 9 day season here would likely result in very similar or ballpark harvest totals as our super long season. The true benefit to this is more geared around pressure and the impact on these deer from a winter mortality and herd health perspective. Our DEC will never shorten the season unless a force acts upon it IMO.

This graph of the southern zone illustrates exactly my point of how the significance of extended seasons quickly reaches a point of diminishing returns. So that all tells us that those who would shorten seasons, or those that would extend them really are not impacting the take significantly as many think. I am just trying to put into perspective this whole idea of regulating herd populations and content by messing with season lengths. The numbers seem to indicate that when people start to think that they have these brainstorms about how they can solve the state's hunting problems by some adjustment of season length, season length does not really seem to be that significant a factor.

I have to point out that I am zeroing in on the southern zone with my observations as I have never hunted the Northern Zone. And, as the graph bears out, I have noticed that after a couple of days of gun season have passed, harvests and activity drop off significantly. So my conclusion is that season lengths are not as big an impact as many think (either positively or negatively).

[Hunter007]

3 hours ago, Doc said:

This graph of the southern zone illustrates exactly my point of how the significance of extended seasons quickly reaches a point of diminishing returns. So that all tells us that those who would shorten seasons, or those that would extend them really are not impacting the take significantly as many think. I am just trying to put into perspective this whole idea of regulating herd populations and content by messing with season lengths. The numbers seem to indicate that when people start to think that they have these brainstorms about how they can solve the state's hunting problems by some adjustment of season length, season length does not really seem to be that significant a factor.

I have to point out that I am zeroing in on the southern zone with my observations as I have never hunted the Northern Zone. And, as the graph bears out, I have noticed that after a couple of days of gun season have passed, harvests and activity drop off significantly. So my conclusion is that season lengths are not as big an impact as many think (either positively or negatively).

Yep you don't need to do anything  most people after they hunt a few first  days get tired of it and don't bother hunting until maybe the last day I noticed .  The  guys that hunt during the rest of the season lot of times are guys for what ever reason did not hunt the beginning of the season.  Plus the deer get harder and harder to hunt as the season goes on . That is  another  reason why you have diminishing returns. The dumb and young deer already got killed opening weekend. The ones left figure out how to avoid humans all together .

 

 

Edited December 27, 2017 by Storm914

[Doc]

That is one reason why I don't pay a lot of attention to license sales to figure out the diminishing level of hunting these days. It looks like there may be a lot of people buying licenses without any intentions of using them beyond opening weekend. I think the level of enthusiasm is also diminishing, which does not bode well for the future.

[Hunter007]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

That is one reason why I don't pay a lot of attention to license sales to figure out the diminishing level of hunting these days. It looks like there may be a lot of people buying licenses without any intentions of using them beyond opening weekend. I think the level of enthusiasm is also diminishing, which does not bode well for the future.

Yep  and even with the  hunting industry doing  its best to promote hunting on tv on the internet I still don't see the younger generation really getting into it like they us to  maybe they watch some show and see some guy shoot some giant buck and think wow that is cool . Go buy a license  buy a gun ,Then once they get out there a few times and don't get that kind of deer I think most don't go or go very little, There are so many more options for Hobbies for kids to do these days  then there us to be that  is a big reason , Kids are more into video gaming and the internet and the 600 chnnel tv stations they have now .

When's the last time you saw a kids play ball in a park on there own .

Unless it was organized by there school . 

You don't anymore .

Don't get me wrong hunting not going away anytime soon  it's just now there are more distractions other things that hunting has to compete with that did not exist before.

 

[phade]

This site. Either of you take a kid out hunting this year? Just curious.


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[Doc]

12 minutes ago, phade said:

This site. Either of you take a kid out hunting this year? Just curious.

The last time I brought up the subject to a kid of going out hunting, I was laughed at. It's a different world out there with a brand new culture. I am sure that somewhere there is a kid just begging their parents to go hunting, but I have not seen it. I always seem to get that, "Are you nuts? ......You're interrupting my game" look when I ask if there is any interest.

But of course that is a whole other subject that doesn't really have anything to do with the effects of gun season lengths.

Edited December 27, 2017 by Doc

[phade]

It does when you bring up the doom and gloom of hunting future state. Followed up by another laundry list of reasons why kids won’t get involved.

 

All I heard were more excuses in the same vein as complaining with no real suggestions to move forward.

 

Like I said.

 

*Edit and yes I’m aware that you Doc have done stuff in the past. My comment is on the here and now. You know as well as I do that engagement is more important than ever before.

 

 

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[nyantler]

15 hours ago, Four Season Whitetails said:

Nah..own 900 acres but never step foot on it.  The snow excuse is weak at best as we hardly ever get any amount until December anyways and gun has already been open for 6-7 weeks by then.  Shorter season would help the herds in many ways with stress just being one of them.

If it takes a guy 6-7 weeks to fill a couple tags they need to either find another hunting area or take up golf.

Doesn't surprise me that hunting season is strictly just filling tags with any deer for some... just not for others.