17 killed in shooting at high school in Parkland, Florida, authorities say

[chas0218]

1 hour ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I know 4 teachers with previous military experience. You are painting with a very general brush. I wonder how many have previous armed experience? I guess until we know that number and how many would be willing to do it, your comment are pure speculation? No?

I don't think armed teachers is the answer to the problem but an option. In the sense of who is armed I think all school buildings should have a minimum of 1 SRO (school resource officer-a police officer paid for by the district) and depending on size 2. These should also be paid by the federal government not the school district, so schools can not opt to not have one based on school funding.

The only way to stop a person with a gun is another person with a gun plain and simple.

If the federal government doesn't want to pay for an SRO create a federal program and division for protection of school districts where they would train specifically for school shooters and bomb threats. All the trainees would need a yearly refresher course and qualify with a multitude of weapons just like any cop would. I am sure any funding needed you could pull $2 more out of every paycheck and welfare check to fund the program and no one would complain (well maybe the welfare users would). Basically a federal ran school security branch. I am 100% sure this would deter future shootings knowing there were highly trained armed guards. We as a society can not protect people using signs and laws that are reactive there needs to be a proactive approach.

Edited February 23, 2018 by chas0218

[Adkhunter1590]

Armed teachers will never be the end all be all solution. But why should we tie their hands and force them to basically stand there and wait to be shot. If a teacher feels they are capable of carrying a concealed handgun, can pass some training courses, then why shouldn’t we give them the opportunity to stop these shooters if need be. SWAT and regular LEOs are great at what they do but they are still humans and can’t possibly cover every square inch of a school or make their response times seconds long instead of 5-8 mins. If a shooter somehow managed to slip by armed guards at the doorway, I’d feel a lot better with a few teachers being around that can use a weapon to put down the shooter quickly if they needed to.

Saw a report last night that a sheriffs dept in Ohio has opened up concealed carry courses for teachers. They maxed out the class at 300 teachers in less than 5 hours. They weren’t expecting to even get 40 people to sign up! Needless to say, there are a lot more teachers out there that have a solid back bone and are willing to put their money where their mouths are when it comes to truly protecting our kids.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Armed teachers will never be the end all be all solution. But why should we tie their hands and force them to basically stand there and wait to be shot. If a teacher feels they are capable of carrying a concealed handgun, can pass some training courses, then why shouldn’t we give them the opportunity to stop these shooters if need be. SWAT and regular LEOs are great at what they do but they are still humans and can’t possibly cover every square inch of a school or make their response times seconds long instead of 5-8 mins. If a shooter somehow managed to slip by armed guards at the doorway, I’d feel a lot better with a few teachers being around that can use a weapon to put down the shooter quickly if they needed to.

Saw a report last night that a sheriffs dept in Ohio has opened up concealed carry courses for teachers. They maxed out the class at 300 teachers in less than 5 hours. They weren’t expecting to even get 40 people to sign up! Needless to say, there are a lot more teachers out there that have a solid back bone and are willing to put their money where their mouths are when it comes to truly protecting our kids.

I he’s d a report the other night that Texas already had it.

[The_Field_Ager]

Sounds like the school's resource officer/deputy is in trouble for not going in while the shooter was active

[The_Field_Ager]

 

[philoshop]

I was arguing with a guy on another site who claimed that 'active shooter' situations were just like fire drills, and that we don't expect teachers to be putting out the fire but rather getting the students out of harm's way. The fire is generally a known point source, not a madman running around. There is an almost 100% chance of running away from a fire in a school, but it's about 50/50 that you might actually be running toward a shooter without knowing it.

The standard practice in an 'active shooter' situation is to shelter in place because the shooter's location is not known. Teachers aren't, and won't be, expected to chase down the bad guys in the halls. But if the gunman should enter that teacher's shelter space they should have the ability to adequately defend themselves and their charges. It's not about turning teachers into Rambo, but that's precisely the argument from the gun-grabbers.

[The_Field_Ager]

FBI Tip-Line Caller Said Nikolas Cruz ‘Is Going to Explode’

https://www.wsj.com/articles/fbi-tip-line-caller-said-nikolas-cruz-is-going-to-explode-1519415442?mod=searchresults&page=1&pos=1

Edited February 23, 2018 by Papist

[ADK Native]

If a teacher is armed they must be trained, capable of knowing enough hand to hand combat to repel some violent student from taking their weapon from them, AND most importantly they must be able to aim at and kill an armed assailant without hesitation. 

The last part where "they must be able to aim at and kill an armed assailant without hesitation" is the most critical.  Anyone who had the displeasure of using deadly force in combat, law enforcement or self defense knows it is a dark feeling to kill another human being even though it was necessary.  

[Rattler]

56 minutes ago, Wilderness said:

If a teacher is armed they must be trained, capable of knowing enough hand to hand combat to repel some violent student from taking their weapon from them, AND most importantly they must be able to aim at and kill an armed assailant without hesitation. 

The last part where "they must be able to aim at and kill an armed assailant without hesitation" is the most critical.  Anyone who had the displeasure of using deadly force in combat, law enforcement or self defense knows it is a dark feeling to kill another human being even though it was necessary.  

Israel has done this and it works.  If they can do it, so can we.  To say we leave the schools defenseless, or not allow teachers to defend themselves and their kids, is the height of denial.  No amount of gun bans is going to stop this from happening.  The shooter must fear his prey.

https://www.westernjournal.com/israel-2-school-attacks-44-years-heres-make-sure-kids-safe/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=westernjournalism&utm_content=2018-02-21&utm_campaign=manualpost

[The_Field_Ager]

 

[The_Field_Ager]

"Shocked And Outraged": Four Broward Deputies Waited Outside School As Children Were Massacred

 

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-02-23/shocked-and-outraged-four-broward-deputies-waited-outside-school-children-were

[Rattler]

I can recall only one active shooter scene where a police officer went in right away.  In most every mass shooting I can recall, the police didn't enter the area until they had massed outside and had SWAT with them.  That takes time and people die.  The police are mainly concerned with protecting their own.

All the more reason to be able to protect yourself if you need to.

 

[Steve D]

1 hour ago, Rattler said:

the police didn't enter the area until they had massed outside and had SWAT with them. 

Can't say that I blame them...I would not want to take someone on with an AR if I only had a pistol. While you might get lucky the odds are definitely against you.

[Rattler]

If you take the pay, you better be able to play.  Dereliction of duty is supposed to be a crime.  Not to mention the shooter is a kid with no training, experience or survival skills.

 

 

Edited February 24, 2018 by Rattler

[The_Field_Ager]

1 hour ago, Steve D said:

Can't say that I blame them...I would not want to take someone on with an AR if I only had a pistol. While you might get lucky the odds are definitely against you.

'serve and protect'.

A Buffalo police officer was interviewed yesterday. He says any cops or deputies on site who are armed should absolutely go in and do all they can, even if it just means temporarily drawing fire aware from children and onto themselves. Might make all the difference for some people in terms of survival

[ncountry]

Imo. If you are armed and on site you best be confronting the problem imediately or go back to the office and turn in your badge.

[Hunter007]

22 hours ago, Wilderness said:

If a teacher is armed they must be trained, capable of knowing enough hand to hand combat to repel some violent student from taking their weapon from them, AND most importantly they must be able to aim at and kill an armed assailant without hesitation. 

The last part where "they must be able to aim at and kill an armed assailant without hesitation" is the most critical.  Anyone who had the displeasure of using deadly force in combat, law enforcement or self defense knows it is a dark feeling to kill another human being even though it was necessary.  

They could carry conceal with out letting the students know would be smarter .

This way if a bad guy or  shooter comes in he will not know who  is armed and who is not . That also could have a deterrent Factor  also, these crazy don't want to go to a place where they can get shot. Think about it how many police stations get hit by these nut jobs  none . They want easy targets for maximum kills . 

Edited February 24, 2018 by Storm914

[Steve D]

5 hours ago, Rattler said:

If you take the pay, you better be able to play.  Dereliction of duty is supposed to be a crime.  Not to mention the shooter is a kid with no training, experience or survival skills.

 

4 hours ago, Papist said:

'serve and protect'.

A Buffalo police officer was interviewed yesterday. He says any cops or deputies on site who are armed should absolutely go in and do all they can, even if it just means temporarily drawing fire aware from children and onto themselves. Might make all the difference for some people in terms of survival

I agree one should do all they can but unless you have had the experience of receiving fire you would have no idea how bad the odds are stacked against you with only a hand gun. Unless you get lucky your odds of survival are minimum.

[Rattler]

27 minutes ago, Steve D said:

 

I agree one should do all they can but unless you have had the experience of receiving fire you would have no idea how bad the odds are stacked against you with only a hand gun. Unless you get lucky your odds of survival are minimum.

No disrespect meant, but that's what the job requires.  It's different if you are risking your life without any purpose, but kids are being shot.  You have to try, even if you die.  If somebody isn't willing to put their life on the line to save others, they best not become a cop or firefighter.  Stick to the sanitation department.

 

[Hunter007]

1 hour ago, Rattler said:

No disrespect meant, but that's what the job requires.  It's different if you are risking your life without any purpose, but kids are being shot.  You have to try, even if you die.  If somebody isn't willing to put their life on the line to save others, they best not become a cop or firefighter.  Stick to the sanitation department.

 

Yea I find it hard to believe this cop just stood there outside watching  kids running out bleeding and did nothing  not at least slowly enter the building to see if he could sneak up on him and get a shot off  . You would here the gun shots and see which way the kids were running out to get a good idea where he was at ,  Not saying the guy has to go on a suicide mission but not even entering the building seems Beyond cowardly.  Btw don't cops usally carry long guns like shotguns or ARs In the trunk  of there cars down in Florida ? 

But anyway he had a gun he probably had a bullet proof vest not that it will stop a 223 at close range i dont think but it will at least help do less damage if you do get hit . 

If you got no balls you should not be a cop in the first place lets be real,  guy like that had no business going into that line of work  in the first place . May as  well not have cops if there like that guy .

 

Edited February 25, 2018 by Storm914

[First-light]

Got a buddy down there that is a PO. He said the Sherifs there at the scene would not go in to confront the shooter. How can they live with themselves after this.....

[First-light]

My friends post......

Numerous friends and family have been asking about the tragic incident and the police response to Stoneman Douglas. It's very complicated.I can remember when I took the physical test in 1980 for the NJSP. One part of the test was boxing. You put on 12oz boxing gloves and fought like hell with whomever they put in front of you. I found out later they didn't care how you fought they just wanted to see when you got hit bad if there was any surrender in you. If you never stopped fighting and never gave up you passed. There was no time limit and if you were a good fighter they would throw 3 or four other guys at you till you got beat down so they could judge. I'm sure it wasn't perfect but some people undoubtedly got weeded out that wouldn't get into a battle if need be. Needless to say the screening process isn't like that anymore. Basically now
your courage isn't tested till the shit hits the fan. Some lucky ones will never have their courage tested. This is either by avoidance or sheer luck.I have had fellow officers stand by and not jump in when I was in a knock down drag out fight. They froze either out of fear or inability to process what was going on. Like one of my best friends who is a K9 handler stated perfectly " There may be a time when you pin on this badge, you may HAVE to go out in a blaze of glory". Well I believe hearing children scream while they are being slaughtered is that time...

[Hunter007]

2 hours ago, First-light said:

My friends post......

Numerous friends and family have been asking about the tragic incident and the police response to Stoneman Douglas. It's very complicated.I can remember when I took the physical test in 1980 for the NJSP. One part of the test was boxing. You put on 12oz boxing gloves and fought like hell with whomever they put in front of you. I found out later they didn't care how you fought they just wanted to see when you got hit bad if there was any surrender in you. If you never stopped fighting and never gave up you passed. There was no time limit and if you were a good fighter they would throw 3 or four other guys at you till you got beat down so they could judge. I'm sure it wasn't perfect but some people undoubtedly got weeded out that wouldn't get into a battle if need be. Needless to say the screening process isn't like that anymore. Basically now
your courage isn't tested till the shit hits the fan. Some lucky ones will never have their courage tested. This is either by avoidance or sheer luck.I have had fellow officers stand by and not jump in when I was in a knock down drag out fight. They froze either out of fear or inability to process what was going on. Like one of my best friends who is a K9 handler stated perfectly " There may be a time when you pin on this badge, you may HAVE to go out in a blaze of glory". Well I believe hearing children scream while they are being slaughtered is that time...

Yes they definitely need to test them harder like they  use to if that is what we are getting now .

O and btw just heard Trump say there were actually 4 cops

AT that school and they did not bother to go in .

That is ridiculous .

[philoshop]

It's all about politics in Broward county. Here's a good overview, but if you want to get deeper into it I would recommend reading consevativetreehouse.com for all the background.

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/02/exposing_the_deep_rot_in_the_deep_state.html

[chas0218]

With the loadout the officers have in their cars in ny there is no reason 1 cop can't stop the shooting. They have the bullet proof vests, pistols, shotgun, and some cases an AR. No reason with all that gear a police officer can't go in and neutralize the threat.

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