17 killed in shooting at high school in Parkland, Florida, authorities say

[Culvercreek hunt club]

9 minutes ago, jjb4900 said:

not sure what your logic is, but here's mine.....for your average normal person, an AR is just another gun, for the wacko it's a means of destruction..no thought just shoot away, don't have to be a gun person or marksmen at all. Personally, and I'm sure for a lot of gun people, we could cause the same amount of damage with a Ruger 10/22 and a few magazines or any other number of guns...sounds odd, but probably pretty accurate.

Not to put ideas in any heads but I can't honestly believe that any of these wackos hasn't opted to a 12 gauge.  I know it is ammo demanding but I've see #4 buck out of a short barrel cylinder bore give about 12-15" pattern at 10 yards (30') I think the #4 (25 caliber)? is 25-27 pellets at over 1300 fps.  I know what the smarter pick would be if someone needed to just "shoot away" 

[jjb4900]

38 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Not to put ideas in any heads but I can't honestly believe that any of these wackos hasn't opted to a 12 gauge.  I know it is ammo demanding but I've see #4 buck out of a short barrel cylinder bore give about 12-15" pattern at 10 yards (30') I think the #4 (25 caliber)? is 25-27 pellets at over 1300 fps.  I know what the smarter pick would be if someone needed to just "shoot away" 

right, I'm not calling on an AR ban...but it's obvious how that type of weapon plays into the mind of someone who's off.

[First-light]

1 hour ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

which is?

Let them have it. See the forest beyond the trees.  

[First-light]

1 hour ago, jjb4900 said:

not sure what your logic is, but here's mine.....for your average normal person, an AR is just another gun, for the wacko it's a means of destruction..no thought just shoot away, don't have to be a gun person or marksmen at all. Personally, and I'm sure for a lot of gun people, we could cause the same amount of damage with a Ruger 10/22 and a few magazines or any other number of guns...sounds odd, but probably pretty accurate.

Nope Ar 15 is magical to them got to have it......

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Let them have it. See the forest beyond the trees.  

Do you own any semi automatic rifles?

[jjb4900]

30 minutes ago, First-light said:

Nope Ar 15 is magical to them got to have it......

yes, exactly

 

[First-light]

59 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Do you own any semi automatic rifles?

We all had to give up some freedoms post 911. It's 2018 the NRA needs to give up something. I own a semi automatic shotgun. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

We all had to give up some freedoms post 911. It's 2018 the NRA needs to give up something. I own a semi automatic shotgun. 

I think you are in the minority of gun owners caving like that.

[Rattler]

Firearm owners have been giving up a lot since the Gun Control Act of 1968 and with each decade incidences of firearm tragedies have gotten progressively worse.  Maybe that's what they mean when they call themselves "Progressives".

With each further encroachment on 2nd Amendment rights, gun owners are forced to give up more and more.  If people can't see the end goal is total disarmament, they are not looking for the truth to the anti's agenda.

Just look at the way these things came to pass in Australia and you will see each step is never enough.  The anti's always want more.  I just wonder how much American gun owners are willing to give up before they come to realize they have been robbed of an inalienable right that they willingly gave up.

Rights taken by force can always be regained.  Rights given away voluntarily can never be regained.  Better think long and hard before you agree to do it.

[First-light]

1 hour ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I think you are in the minority of gun owners caving like that.

Please don't describe my opinion. My opinion you have yours live with it. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Please don't describe my opinion. My opinion you have yours live with it. 

You have every right to your opinion no matter how misguided it is. Neat thing is I am also allowed to have the opinion that you are misguided. You are willing to cave on the AR’s and from the sound of it all semi’s. What is the next category you want to give away when nothing changes?pumps? Pistols? Bolts?

[Doc]

Wait until these kids (and other wack-os) start thinking about pipe bombs and such. According to what terrorists have taught us it is only a matter of time before more destructive methods become the weapon of choice. Death and mayhem gets even more destructive once the assault rifles are outlawed. The thing is that bombs, trucks and such are each more destructive than any rifle ever could be. Are we going to continue eradicating everything that can be mis-used as a weapon? Isn't it time to start getting serious about what the real causes are for these incidents?

You know, it occurred to me that semi-autos have been around since forever. 60 some years ago when I was in high school I had a buddy that had a .22 semi-auto. I'm sure they were available to a whole lot of other kids too. And yet school massacres never occurred then or many of the years since. So other than appearance, those very same semi-autos have not changed a bit in terms of function. So to those that think assault weapons (Also known as semi auto rifles) are what's driving our kids nuts and making them shoot up schools, I guess I have to ask, "Other than making everybody artificially feel good, how does outlawing them really get at the root of the problem?". Has anyone ever spent more than a half a second actually thinking about such things as the root of the problem. I know it is a whole lot easier to take the easy way out and intellectually lazy approach of thinking anything is really solved by going after an inanimate item. But apparently no one is actually concerned about doing anything effective and are content to simply ban the next in a whole unlimited supply of implements that can be used lethally.

[Robhuntandfish]

whether we like it or not or think we are in the right - the majority in this country would prob be for more gun restrictions.  What is considered right is the majority.  Within most of our lifetimes i think we will see any semi auto with a magazine will have to be registered (long guns) .  The fact is that gun laws will never be lessened and always be restricted more.  With the change in society and the we must do something just to say something was done - gun rights will continue to be restricted.  Further legislation will pass soon as this has wheels and fire to it after this terrible shooting.  Just wish those kids were pushing for a more secure school and metal detectors and a full time police officer.  Cause it would prob be passed. There are more people in the country that do not hunt and they want something to be done - unfortunatley we are not going to like it. And guess what they dont care if we do, if it makes them feel better about their kids being at school.  

[Steve D]

37 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

With the change in society and the we must do something just to say something was done - gun rights will continue to be restricted.  Further legislation will pass soon as this has wheels and fire to it after this terrible shooting.  Just wish those kids were pushing for a more secure school and metal detectors and a full time police officer. 

"We" do not have to do a thing. It will be done for us. These "kids" are the future lawmakers and politicians of this country and they are tired of being shot. With a bitter taste in their mouth THEY will be the ones deciding who and if anyone is this country will be owning guns and the type of guns that will be allowed if any.

The movement is under way in the form of the newly formed "never again movement" https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/how-the-survivors-of-parkland-began-the-never-again-movement

and they aren't likely to give up until our right to own guns is seriously restricted.

[Robhuntandfish]

4 minutes ago, Steve D said:

"We" do not have to do a thing. It will be done for us. These "kids" are the future lawmakers and politicians of this country and they are tired of being shot. With a bitter taste in their mouth THEY will be the ones deciding who and if anyone is this country will be owning guns and the type of guns that will be allowed if any.

The movement is under way in the form of the newly formed "never again movement" https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/how-the-survivors-of-parkland-began-the-never-again-movement

and they aren't likely to give up until our right to own guns is seriously restricted.

couldnt agree more.  This movement is going to have one hell of a head of steam.  And because we want to shoot a deer or plink with an AR is probably just a speedbump.  There will be some sort of legislation from the Feds and then expect more from the states.  

[Culvercreek hunt club]

If you guys shrug this off and take the "oh well" approach you are in for a rude awakening. Take a read at the current gun regulations in detail that Australia has in place and see where this is going.  I know many don't have AR's or any of those other evil guns but if you think for one minute it will stop there you are nuts. The proof is in these other countries. The reason it won't stop there is becasue even if they get step one through it WON'T make any difference. That will be justification that another step is needed.  (For the record I don't even have any of the weapons that they are having a hissy Fit over) . 

So sit there with you semi "hunting" rifle, your semi shotgun, all you pumps, bolt guns, pistols and revolvers and see which ones will be next. I have stated earlier I think there is ground we could give up on in terms of determining who can have through mandatory background checks (even though that won't change anything either) but you had better think twice before caving on the banning of a category of firearm. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

19 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

couldnt agree more.  This movement is going to have one hell of a head of steam.  And because we want to shoot a deer or plink with an AR is probably just a speedbump.  There will be some sort of legislation from the Feds and then expect more from the states.  

And there in lies the real problem. 

[Steve D]

20 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

There will be some sort of legislation from the Feds and then expect more from the states.  

Prime example: The NY Safe Act

[Culvercreek hunt club]

1 hour ago, Robhuntandfish said:

whether we like it or not or think we are in the right - the majority in this country would prob be for more gun restrictions.  What is considered right is the majority.    

If we were a Democracy that would be true. But we aren't. We are a Constitutional Republic and that is a long way from a Democracy. Mob rule was known and that is why we have the system we do. There is a process to change or modify the Constitution. It isn't by backroom deals or giving in to Mob rule or even passing a law like the old Assault weapon ban. I certainly would not be happy but would have more respect for the other side if they make the effort to modify the Constitution to remove gun ownership. There is a reason they haven't though. Know why that is? 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

6 minutes ago, Steve D said:

Prime example: The NY Safe Act

And that is why electing Trump was so important. I have my fingers crossed for Ginsburg and Breyer to fold up. Two more would change the make up of the court where some of thes crap laws could be challenged on their Constitutional basis. 

[Robhuntandfish]

7 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

If we were a Democracy that would be true. But we aren't. We are a Constitutional Republic and that is a long way from a Democracy. Mob rule was known and that is why we have the system we do. There is a process to change or modify the Constitution. It isn't by backroom deals or giving in to Mob rule or even passing a law like the old Assault weapon ban. I certainly would not be happy but would have more respect for the other side if they make the effort to modify the Constitution to remove gun ownership. There is a reason they haven't though. Know why that is? 

we used to be........  now everyone reacts with Legislation and govt to fix everything.  

[Culvercreek hunt club]

4 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

we used to be........  now everyone reacts with Legislation and govt to fix everything.  

But do you know why they haven't tried to modify the Constitution to remove gun ownership?

[Robhuntandfish]

12 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

But do you know why they haven't tried to modify the Constitution to remove gun ownership?

thats not going to pass.  We wont see that in our lifetime.  - cause "Merica"  

But the states themselves will be passing legislation post haste right now.  Its a gradient not a cliff.  Cuomo is going to say i told you so to the rest of the states -  safe act .   

Edited February 20, 2018 by Robhuntandfish

[dbHunterNY]

On 2/15/2018 at 11:23 AM, G-Man said:

Just look up experiments with kids and guns there are many with videos..one has gun in toy box .1st group of kids enter and open box pull out gun and shoot each other with it..(not loaded of course) 2nd group enters same set up kids find real gun in toy box and immediately tell adult in room with out touching it..  amazing what education can do

the only things those kids not exposed to real guns know is video games and movies were violence is glorified. i'm hard pressed to watch a movie with guns and either matt damon or liam nesson. both have suggested our 2nd amendment rights be capped at the knees. yet both have made gun violence in movies their bread and butter legacy.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

27 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

thats not going to pass.  We wont see that in our lifetime.  - cause "Merica"  

But the states themselves will be passing legislation post haste right now.  Its a gradient not a cliff.  Cuomo is going to say i told you so to the rest of the states -  safe act .   

It  drives the left crazy. The Liberal mega states want to rule becasue of their population and feel that the majority should rule. In reality the tiny less populated states have the same stature when trying to ratify a modification to the constitution.  38 states need to ratify the amendment.  Since we aren't using Obama's listing of 57 states, that would mean only 13 states would be needed to stop any ratification.  I can think of 18 off the top of my head that  I don't think would ever vote to ratify. 

Alabama

Alaska

Arizona

Arkansas

Georgia

Idaho

Kansas

Kentucky

Mississippi

Missouri

Montana

North Dakota

Oklahoma

South Dakota

Texas

Utah

West Virginia

Wyoming