Pistol cartridge for Black Bear

[Culvercreek hunt club]

2 hours ago, rob-c said:

Lots of assumptions  being thrown out, so I went to buffalo bore and checked the numbers for their heavy outdoorsman loads( buffalo bore is known to have accurate data on their loads ) 

357 - 180 grain hardcast  out off a 3 inch s&w j frame 1302 FPS 

10 mm - 220 grain hardcast from a 4.6 inch barrel Glock 20 1140 FPS

and from a para ordinance 1911 with 5 inch barrel 1201 FPS 

41 mag - 230 grain Keith bullet from 4.5 barrel s&w mountain gun  1310 FPS 

Padre 86 were do u live one of  us guys might  be close enough to let you shoot one of our 357,44 or 10mm’s

Did they give you the energy values as well on those?

 

[Padre86]

Padre 86 were do u live one of  us guys might  be close enough to let you shoot one of our 357,44 or 10mm’s

Rochester area. I checked out the firing pin range but they don’t seem to have too much in the way of magnum cartridges.


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[Culvercreek hunt club]

44 minutes ago, Padre86 said:

 

Rochester area. I checked out the firing pin range but they don’t seem to have too much in the way of magnum cartridges.


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Plenty of us around you. I have 2-  357's a 6" and a 4" barrel.  I don't know anyone close with a 10 or 44mag

[turkeyfeathers]

12 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Plenty of us around you. I have 2-  357's a 6" and a 4" barrel.  I don't know anyone close with a 10 or 44mag

I’ll drive from Buffalo and meet up if that helps. Super Blackhawk 7” barrel .44 along with 

Imo this .44 is a pussy cat to shoot. My Sig sauer 2340 jumps more than the push of the .44. 

[The_Real_TCIII]

Believe it or not the last bear I shot was hit in the liver and I crawled into a thicket after him with a bow. He was about 75 yards in, dead. I'm not some tough guy, it was pretty stupid but I had a moose tag too and really wanted to recover the bear that night and not waste the next morning

[rob-c]

3 hours ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Did they give you the energy values as well on those?

 

357 -  678 foot lbs 

10mm - 635 and 705 foot lbs 

41 mag - 1016 foot lbs 

Edited March 20, 2018 by rob-c

[rob-c]

2 hours ago, Padre86 said:

 

Rochester area. I checked out the firing pin range but they don’t seem to have too much in the way of magnum cartridges.


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I am outside of Corning about hour and half from you, I have a gp-100 and a ruger Black hawk in 357 and a super redhawk in 44 you can shoot.. 

[Padre86]

357 -  678 foot lbs 
10mm - 635 and 705 foot lbs 
41 mag - 1016 foot lbs 

There are buffalo bore .357 loads producing 780-800 foot lbs (according to the website).

Does 10mm have something comparable?


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[rob-c]

Right , i went with the 3 inch barrel length and 180 grain bullet for or a packable gun . But  you have to look at bullet weight  and barrel length, both will play a roll in velocity . What I did was I went to beartooth bullets and they have a page of calculators , you type in bullet weight and FPS and it gives you the ft lbs of energy. 

I still vote for 357 and a heavy bullet.. 

Edited March 21, 2018 by rob-c

[TACC]

Rob, I agree with those numbers, if they produce.

The numbers on underwood ammo do produce what they advertise, no I don't work for them, but I have seen the teams and terminal damage they produce.

Let's just say that I believe in them enough that I have enough for my son and grandson, and great grandson to shoot when I'm dead and gone. They are that good.

I think one box is like 20 bucks for 25 shells, but they do what they were designed to do.

When whomever I'd interested and has some time here is a link.

https://underwoodammo.com/product/handgun-ammo/10mm-auto-220-grain-hard-cast-flat-nose/

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[Padre86]

On 3/21/2018 at 6:28 AM, rob-c said:

I still vote for 357 and a heavy bullet.. 

After a lot of consideration, I'm leaning this way too.

10mm seems to offer slightly heavier bullet options, but .357 offers loads with somewhat higher energy figures and as well the bullets, though a little bit smaller in diameter and lighter in weight, offer somewhat better sectional density.

I really like some of the newer 10mm platforms that are coming onto the market.  The new 1911 offerings in particular have caught my eye.  But:

-10mm is somewhat more expensive and not as common.

-I've heard of reliability issues with some 10mm platforms (especially with the hotter hunting loads).

-10mm platforms, at least the newer ones, seem more expensive compared .357 revolvers, perhaps excluding the Glock which I have absolutely zero interest in.

 

I've heavily considered a semi-light .357 platform like the S&W TRR8: 8 shot capacity, scandium frame to help keep the weight down, decent ergonomics and sights.  I think it's based on the S&W 327 platform, but with a longer 5" barrel.  Anyone have experience with that revolver?

I think 10mm and .357 offer performance capabilities that are roughly in the same ballpark; either one should get the job done.  I just think the logistics and flexibility of a traditional .357 revolver make more sense for my intended uses.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Padre86

[turkeyfeathers]

Trr8. Not sure that one is legal to hunt with the capacity May need a duck plug 

[moog5050]

On 3/20/2018 at 4:34 PM, The_Real_TCIII said:

Believe it or not the last bear I shot was hit in the liver and I crawled into a thicket after him with a bow. He was about 75 yards in, dead. I'm not some tough guy, it was pretty stupid but I had a moose tag too and really wanted to recover the bear that night and not waste the next morning

Im not frightened of most things but crawling in a thicket after a wounded bear would concern me just a bit!

[Padre86]

1 hour ago, turkeyfeathers said:

Trr8. Not sure that one is legal to hunt with the capacity May need a duck plug 

I don't think that magazine restriction applies to the TRR8 as it is a revolver, not an auto-loading firearm, and its barrel is less than 8".

[rob-c]

8 hours ago, Padre86 said:

After a lot of consideration, I'm leaning this way too.

10mm seems to offer slightly heavier bullet options, but .357 offers loads with somewhat higher energy figures and as well the bullets, though a little bit smaller in diameter and lighter in weight, offer somewhat better sectional density.

I really like some of the newer 10mm platforms that are coming onto the market.  The new 1911 offerings in particular have caught my eye.  But:

-10mm is somewhat more expensive and not as common.

-I've heard of reliability issues with some 10mm platforms (especially with the hotter hunting loads).

-10mm platforms, at least the newer ones, seem more expensive compared .357 revolvers, perhaps excluding the Glock which I have absolutely zero interest in.

 

I've heavily considered a semi-light .357 platform like the S&W TRR8: 8 shot capacity, scandium frame to help keep the weight down, decent ergonomics and sights.  I think it's based on the S&W 327 platform, but with a longer 5" barrel.  Anyone have experience with that revolver?

I think 10mm and .357 offer performance capabilities that are roughly in the same ballpark; either one should get the job done.  I just think the logistics and flexibility of a traditional .357 revolver make more sense for my intended uses.

Just remember the lighter the gun the more recoil your going to get, especially with hot loads .. 

[eagle rider]

as a primary 45 Long Colt with 250's or a 44 Mag with 240's.  I have had them both in Blackhawks and Redhawks.  They are great guns.  

[The_Real_TCIII]

Im not frightened of most things but crawling in a thicket after a wounded bear would concern me just a bit!

The alternative was a couple more one hour boat rides, cutting into my drinking time! Actually I had a moose tag so I didn’t want to burn the next morning recovering the bear


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[turkeyfeathers]

5 minutes ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

The alternative was a couple more one hour boat rides, cutting into my drinking time! Actually I had a moose tag so I didn’t want to burn the next morning recovering the bear


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Apparently this was before you watched the bear scene in The Renevant 

[The_Real_TCIII]

2 hours ago, turkeyfeathers said:

Apparently this was before you watched the bear scene in The Renevant 

That turned out ok though! But theres not a Jim Bridger among the jabronies I hunt with

[Padre86]

5 hours ago, rob-c said:

Just remember the lighter the gun the more recoil your going to get, especially with hot loads .. 

It still comes in at 34-35oz, only 3-4oz less than the all steel framed 5" 686.  

 

There might be a little bit more felt recoil, but not much.  It's a balancing act between having a portable weapon and having enough mass to tame the recoil.  

[Salmon_Run]

I utilize my retired duty weapon of a Ruger "security six" .357 with a chest holster as my revolver of choice.

I have .40, .45 and a 9mm pistols but like the weight of the revolver and choices of ammo available for purchase. There are lots of round choices and even # 4 shot on the market if one chooses. I carry it trapping and fishing with the chest holster and it's never in the way of pack or belt straps and readily available if needed.

Just my .02 cents worth.....

[rob-c]

16 minutes ago, Padre86 said:

It still comes in at 34-35oz, only 3-4oz less than the all steel framed 5" 686.  

 

There might be a little bit more felt recoil, but not much.  It's a balancing act between having a portable weapon and having enough mass to tame the recoil.  

I just went and checked out the smith, that is a nice revolver. If you do get it post up some photos.. 

[airedale]

I am in the market for a compact 357 revolver myself, I am leaning toward the Ruger SP 101 Match Champion and will will be taking the plunge soon.

Al

[turkeyfeathers]

18 minutes ago, airedale said:

I am in the market for a compact 357 revolver myself, I am leaning toward the Ruger SP 101 Match Champion and will will be taking the plunge soon.

Al

Would you switch out the grips to packmire or similar? 

[Padre86]

38 minutes ago, Salmon_Run said:

I utilize my retired duty weapon of a Ruger "security six" .357 with a chest holster as my revolver of choice.

I have .40, .45 and a 9mm pistols but like the weight of the revolver and choices of ammo available for purchase. There are lots of round choices and even # 4 shot on the market if one chooses. I carry it trapping and fishing with the chest holster and it's never in the way of pack or belt straps and readily available if needed.

Just my .02 cents worth.....

I am of a similar mindset.  The magnum cartridges seem much more flexible; it's easier to find dedicated hunting loads.  Whereas the traditional self-defense cartridges seem more focused on, well, self-defense....not that you can't find any hunting loads.

 

33 minutes ago, rob-c said:

I just went and checked out the smith, that is a nice revolver. If you do get it post up some photos.. 

Will do.