IS THIS BAITING

[nyantler]

Lets see NYA...

so far you have lined "ppl " that plant plots up with Ted Bundy and not being "Hunters".....So I have what  the ethics of Ted Bundy when I'm in the woods where I have now 14 plots spread over 73 acres and the only one hunting and I'm not really a "hunter"?....

but when I'm at camp with no plots hunting ...I'm not akin to a sereil killer and in your eyes I'm a real " Hunter ".....Wow how Kind of you to make such a heady distinction....I bet you do sleep well at night...it takes a lot of work to think like that

PS....I sure ppl have many reasons for plotting...mine started out with buying a farm where the farmer plowed his fields...then retired....have never disced or dragged the furrows....after 4 years of rattling my internal organs every time I bush hogged the only open area left....all the rest of farm grew trees in the furrows...I decided it was time to improve the property...which became a hobby

  LOL .. I think you need to go back and read my posts a bit better... especially the part where i say that I don't think food plots are wrong.. just not my cup of tea.. ..and not what I personally call hunting... it is not an attack on people that plant food plots... and the Ted Bundy thing was directed at a post saying that you can't teach ethics and had nothing to do with food plots...  I never said food plots were unethical... I never said people that plant them are like Ted Bundy... I did however say that regardless of what you say about why you food plot... the general motivation by the vast majority that do food plot.. is to attract deer to harvest... and I stand by that statement... whether or not it is "hunting" to YOU... is up to YOU to decide... not me... for me personally it is not.. therefore I do not food plot. If it makes your deer hunting more enjoyable, then that is what you ought to do.

[nyantler]

[[[[[[[ld have put in a putting green..or anything else..but  being a hunter you decided to go with food plots..for what again? Oh yeah attracting deer..email]uemail]oemail]cemail] email]uemail]oemail]Y

Very good point Pat.. if one wanted to truly improve the property... one could plant acres of plush grass... or better yet myrtle... that is great ground cover and never has to be mowed...but.. like you said... motivated by hunting... one decides to plant food plots to attract deer for harvesting.. yet again proving my point as to motivation of food plots... thanks for the help

[growalot]

Not just to attract deer and I've been doing this for years....it's taken that long to smooth things out by my self....I started out putting in annuals ....because it takes years and years to de-rock the place...am I glad they bring in deer and turkey...grouse ...rabbits...pheasants and hawks ...you bet ....now for the guys that have known me from other sites ...well they heard me talk of this for years and years..not hiding any thing there ..

...We also have live stock and yes ...the sorghum I planted this year... I mentioned several times and several places...to suppliment the chicken feed.....the goats eat corn stalks and some of the turnips....as well as that and collard greens being Mr B. favorites...We make hard cider...can peaches and pears...make grape juice....ect...If I were doing this just for deer....it would be plain ole clover and Alfalfa....winter trical and rape seed...which is cheaper than turnips

One more thing...last time I was nearly shot out of a 16 ft tree stand...the DEC officer from region 8 said ..." You need to hunt a different area of your land"...really Chris....well then I'll be making that area a fun place to see wild life....So those plots weren't made just for me to Kill a deer...they are there to give  them a safe place tucked in the middle of my property....so I don't have to tax the DEC with little problems like coming out to ppl being shot at on their own land...for the 4th time....so I have many varied reasons that I plant plots...... you could say spite being one of them...openly admitted....By the way none to which I need to justify to any one

See I look at it this way ....If I shoot say a great buck to me ...no matter where ...and someone shows me a even better buck they shot....I don't have to think or justify my buck over theirs by saying  any of the following

1...Well he took his over a plot and I really hunted

2...every body shoots all the small buck and this is the best we have here

3..if I had his kind of money ...I could shoot one like that too

4...Better to be lucky than good

Well  you've heard them as well ...and if not ...this list just goes on and on : Sadly really.... some guys out there do have to justify what they have or haven't achieved while hunting to their peers and them selves

[Pat Rockets]

Whayever the reason..the point is the same...feeders or food plots..yer just attractin game..nothin wrong with it..just dont try to justify it by showing yer work..end result is the same..

[burmjohn]

Same goes for cutting shooting lanes, trimming tree's, bushes and everything else too.  Might as well lump tree stands, blinds, camo clothing, scent cover ups,  and anything else that may or may not help in with your hunt.  And don't forget scents / lures too.

[nyantler]

Not just to attract deer and I've been doing this for years....it's taken that long to smooth things out by my self....I started out putting in annuals ....because it takes years and years to de-rock the place...am I glad they bring in deer and turkey...grouse ...rabbits...pheasants and hawks ...you bet ....now for the guys that have known me from other sites ...well they heard me talk of this for years and years..not hiding any thing there ..

...We also have live stock and yes ...the sorghum I planted this year... I mentioned several times and several places...to suppliment the chicken feed.....the goats eat corn stalks and some of the turnips....as well as that and collard greens being Mr B. favorites...We make hard cider...can peaches and pears...make grape juice....ect...If I were doing this just for deer....it would be plain ole clover and Alfalfa....winter trical and rape seed...which is cheaper than turnips

One more thing...last time I was nearly shot out of a 16 ft tree stand...the DEC officer from region 8 said ..." You need to hunt a different area of your land"...really Chris....well then I'll be making that area a fun place to see wild life....So those plots weren't made just for me to Kill a deer...they are there to give  them a safe place tucked in the middle of my property....so I don't have to tax the DEC with little problems like coming out to ppl being shot at on their own land...for the 4th time....so I have many varied reasons that I plant plots...... you could say spite being one of them...openly admitted....By the way none to which I need to justify to any one

See I look at it this way ....If I shoot say a great buck to me ...no matter where ...and someone shows me a even better buck they shot....I don't have to think or justify my buck over theirs by saying  any of the following

1...Well he took his over a plot and I really hunted

2...every body shoots all the small buck and this is the best we have here

3..if I had his kind of money ...I could shoot one like that too

4...Better to be lucky than good

Well  you've heard them as well ...and if not ...this list just goes on and on : Sadly really.... some guys out there do have to justify what they have or haven't achieved while hunting to their peers and them selves

I must say I have seen your pics and what you have done looks great... to clarify a bit... some here think that when I give my opinion on a topic... that it has anything to do with what i think of how other choose to enjoy their hunting experience... not true... I really do not care how others hunt.. I just have opinions on topics based on my personal feelings on that subject... if I say I'm not into food plots.. that has nothing to do with how I feel about you being into them... my position on killing young bucks has nothing to do with me imposing my position on anyone else.. it is just my personal view on the subject... what others do in the way of hunting and the choices they make have nothing to do with me or my opinion on certain topics related to hunting... they are just my opinions... I can appreciate those that food plot, hunt out of a treestand, or shoot young bucks if thats what makes their hunting experience fun for them... they are just things I choose not to do and I have my own reasons for why I choose not to do them... in no way are any of my views intended to put down other hunting choices. If I reply negatively to a post on here it is most likely because the person is stretching the truth to make his or her point and isn't being honest about the real reason that they do what they do.. for example... if someone says that the reason they are against AR's is because they pay good money for a license and they should be able to take any buck they want.. I'm okay with that.. it's an honest answer... if they say it's because AR's don't work or they aren't interested in shooting bigger bucks... that is not honest in my opinion and deserves to be challenged. Other than that.. I just hunt... with no opinion about what you or anyone else does personally... I reserve my personal opinions to add to the forum for interesting and entertaining discussion and debate.. nothing more

[DIAMOND D]

"that it has anything to do with what i think of how other choose to enjoy their hunting experience... not true... I really do not care how others hunt.. "

There we go, finally the part that irked me is over with (the insinuation that hunting over, around, or utilizing food plots is "not hunting").

See it doesn't really matter if it's not "hunting" to you, that would be like me arguing that "TO ME" a Hyundai isn't a car. Simple facts and the very definition are against this statement.

Or I could just dispute this for page upon page of a thread. 

[nyantler]

not a good analogy.. a car is an object... hunting is an action... what one person considers hunting is not necessarily another persons hunting... yet a car is always a car... now if you said I don't consider a Hyundai a luxury car.. that would be your opinion... luxury to one is not the same to another... hence my statement that how I don't see killing deer over a food plot as hunting is my own perspective so I choose not to do so... if you think that it IS hunting then you will choose to do differently... it's really quite simple... and because it is subjective neither is right or wrong.

[bubba]

Whayever the reason..the point is the same...feeders or food plots..yer just attractin game..nothin wrong with it..just dont try to justify it by showing yer work..end result is the same..

there is a big difference between attracting game, and keeping game in the area, as well as allowing for a stronger herd.  My tract of land is between 2 farms with all the feed needed.  Mine has the woods and swamp that the deer stay in and go to the ag fields to feed.  They use my feed after the crops are harvested.  Big big differene there.  If anything, the deer live on my property and travel to adjoining properties to feed.  So by planting their crops, they are luring the deer away from my property, and baiting.  The majority of my plots are for late fall,and winter.  So they are doing the baiting, I am doing the sustaining. 

[DIAMOND D]

I really do not care how others hunt..

what others do in the way of hunting and the choices they make have nothing to do with me or my opinion on certain topics related to hunting...

they are just my opinions... I can appreciate those that food plot, hunt out of a treestand, or shoot young bucks if thats what makes their hunting experience fun for them...

in no way are any of my views intended to put down other hunting choices

Well you yourself have a difficult enough time seperating it from the definition of hunting (or a hunting activity) so I guess even as an activity it still has a DEFINITIVE definition

Following excerpt from Meriam-Webster Dictionary  (any disputes of their writings can be taken up with them)

¹hunt  verb \ˈhənt\Definition of HUNT  transitive verb  a  : to pursue for food or in sport <hunt buffalo>

  b  : to manage in the search for game <hunts a pack of dogs>

A more proper and slightly less confrontational statement would be-  its not the way I chose to hunt.

As opposed to-  its not hunting to me.

[Pat Rockets]

    ing, baiting, sustaining..all unnatural food sources..taking away from natural selection..agin..not against it..just calling it like i see it..>:(t >>:(t >>:(o >>:(l >>:(P >

[Localqdm]

Food plots make it "easier" sure;  but so do deer drives, deer tracks, 'natural' food sources (they make it a LOT easier since you don't have to do the work  ). 

Its all hunting.  And for those who only hunt limited amount of land like 50-100 acres (most of western ny small farms), tracking and drives are not an option, unless they want to run all the deer off their land and be done in 15 min.

[nyantler]

I really do not care how others hunt..

what others do in the way of hunting and the choices they make have nothing to do with me or my opinion on certain topics related to hunting...

they are just my opinions... I can appreciate those that food plot, hunt out of a treestand, or shoot young bucks if thats what makes their hunting experience fun for them...

in no way are any of my views intended to put down other hunting choices

Well you yourself have a difficult enough time seperating it from the definition of hunting (or a hunting activity) so I guess even as an activity it still has a DEFINITIVE definition

Following excerpt from Meriam-Webster Dictionary  (any disputes of their writings can be taken up with them)

¹hunt  verb \ˈhənt\Definition of HUNT  transitive verb  a  : to pursue for food or in sport <hunt buffalo>

  b  : to manage in the search for game <hunts a pack of dogs>

A more proper and slightly less confrontational statement would be-  its not the way I chose to hunt.

As opposed to-  its not hunting to me.

I'm not one for caring what people think about HOW I say what I mean... any hang-ups that people have with it is on them not me... the reason I choose to hunt the way I do is because I don't think hunting over food plots is hunting... it is waiting in my view... if you consider waiting to be pursuit according to Websters definition of hunting then I guess you have done a good job defending those that think it is hunting... I don't consider waiting to be pursuit... therefore waiting is not hunting to me... so I choose not to do it

[DIAMOND D]

I don't think hunting over food plotsis hunting...

?

Right, well all circular logic aside....  When your waiting with a rod and reel in hand I still call it fishing, when your trolling lines off the back of a boat moving at 5 knots I still call it fishing....

[DIAMOND D]

I don't think hunting over food plots is hunting... it is waiting in my view... if you consider waiting to be pursuit according to Websters definition of hunting then I guess you have done a good job defending those that think it is hunting...

See the second definition.....

Definition of PURSUEtransitive verb1  : to follow in order to overtake, capture, kill, or defeat 2  : to find or employ measures to obtain or accomplish : seek <pursue a goal>

(yeah, its Websters...)  ;D

[fasteddie]

author=nyantler link=topic=4923.msg60258#msg60258 date=1309018669]

I'm not one for caring what people think about HOW I say what I mean... any hang-ups that people have with it is on them not me... the reason I choose to hunt the way I do is because I don't think hunting over food plots is hunting... it is waiting in my view... if you consider waiting to be pursuit according to Websters definition of hunting then I guess you have done a good job defending those that think it is hunting... I don't consider waiting to be pursuit... therefore waiting is not hunting to me... so I choose not to do it

You must do a heck of a lot of walking / stalking to get your deer !

[Doc]

nyantler- It really doesn't matter how you define hunting. That is one of those personal opinions that everyone figures out for themselves. But I will point out that there are many ways to hunt that are completely valid and have universally been accepted for centuries by all kinds of people, cultures and traditions. The idea of taking game by having them come to you fits most anyone's definition of hunting just as well as the methods that require you to go to the game. I too have some rather specialized ideas when it comes to what I consider to be hunting, and they are pretty darn rigid. But I also have to recognize that other people have experiences, backgrounds and traditions that differ from me and form their way of hunting. That doesn't mean that at times I don't get downright vocal about such things, but in the end I do have to admit that their opinions about what constitutes hunting for them are just as valid as my own.

[nyantler]

nyantler- It really doesn't matter how you define hunting. That is one of those personal opinions that everyone figures out for themselves. But I will point out that there are many ways to hunt that are completely valid and have universally been accepted for centuries by all kinds of people, cultures and traditions. The idea of taking game by having them come to you fits most anyone's definition of hunting just as well as the methods that require you to go to the game. I too have some rather specialized ideas when it comes to what I consider to be hunting, and they are pretty darn rigid. But I also have to recognize that other people have experiences, backgrounds and traditions that differ from me and form their way of hunting. That doesn't mean that at times I don't get downright vocal about such things, but in the end I do have to admit that their opinions about what constitutes hunting for them are just as valid as my own.

Kinda what I've been trying to say... if someones own idea of hunting makes for a good hunting experience that great... I just .. like you.. have rigid ideas for myself when defining hunting... and don't expect others to have the same

[nyantler]

author=nyantler link=topic=4923.msg60258#msg60258 date=1309018669]

I'm not one for caring what people think about HOW I say what I mean... any hang-ups that people have with it is on them not me... the reason I choose to hunt the way I do is because I don't think hunting over food plots is hunting... it is waiting in my view... if you consider waiting to be pursuit according to Websters definition of hunting then I guess you have done a good job defending those that think it is hunting... I don't consider waiting to be pursuit... therefore waiting is not hunting to me... so I choose not to do it

You must do a heck of a lot of walking / stalking to get your deer !

That I do Eddie... I can do as much as 10 miles in a day sometimes if I'm looking hard for a buck... at the end of the day I am usually pretty whipped!! But I love it...

[nyantler]

I don't think hunting over food plotsis hunting...

?

Right, well all circular logic aside....  When your waiting with a rod and reel in hand I still call it fishing, when your trolling lines off the back of a boat moving at 5 knots I still call it fishing....

And you would be correct in calling both of them fishing... you might be waiting but your lure is not .. you are casting it or moving it through areas where you think there might be fish... when you are sitting in a treestand you are just waiting... no other real action except maybe eating a candy bar..

[G-Man]

Joe, the problem is this ..unless you want every hunter in the woods hunting with you in the "Dacks" where you hunt. one must realise that tracking/stalking game isnt possible legally in most areas of the state..lot of small properties and property lines posted everywhere.So creating an ambush site and waitng is the best form of hunting much of the state has. I'd love to follow the big track and catch up to my quarry..but land use restricts me to what i can do. And as much as i love to hunt going 300+ miles to hunt where i have the abilty to hunt like that(tracking,stalking)  isn't feasable or practical when i have game close by to get

[DIAMOND D]

Utilizing the provided definitions of "hunt" and "pursue," it is apparent that by definition utilizing a tree stand, food plot, or any other means with the end goal of having an opportunity to take a deer is in FACT hunting.

Not your style of hunting, below you, considering it not challenging enough, too much waiting = All statements that can be made without disputing FACT.

... when you are sitting in a treestand you are just waiting... no other real action except maybe eating a candy bar..

Lol but if your hunting bear eating that candy bar could be considered BAITING, and like that we are back on topic!

YAY 

[nyantler]

Except... I don't consider killing bear over bait "hunting" either...   Maybe I'm the only one that thinks that way, but I'm okay with standing alone... and I would bet that Webster wasn't a hunter so why would I care what his definition of hunting is?... Okay.. I'll be honest... even if Webster was a hunter.. I still wouldn't care what his definition of a hunter is.. I have my own... just like you. 

[burmjohn]

I bet nyantler has the biggest plot of all of us too, put my little 1 acre deal to shame

[fasteddie]

I think I saw him with his bow at the seneca park Zoo .  .. .. ;D .. ???