Antler Restriction Results

[Canis Latrans]

I was wondering what your experiences with antler restrictions has been. Are you seeing more larger bucks than before? What WMU are you in with AR, how long has it been in place and what has been your experiences? Thanks. 

[Rattler]

We've had it for 6 years now (I think) in the Catskills and I'm seeing fewer deer every year since we've had it.  I used to see a spike or 4 point every year and every few years a good 8 point or better.  I have not seen a 6 point or better in at least 4 years.

Not sure if the AR's are the reason, as there are many other factors involved here, but not being able to shoot smaller bucks, and having less chance for a doe permit as well, makes it near impossible to put venison in the freezer each year.

I think the biggest problem with AR's is exempting young hunters from the rule.  Seems all the young bucks are still being taken (or worse yet, wounded) by youth in hunting groups.  They all get to tag a small buck, even if it was shot by an adult in their group.  Either the area is AR or it is not, there is no benefit if there are exceptions.

There are far fewer hunters around here each year as well, which has a negative impact on the local economy during hunting season.  Many hunters just want to shoot a deer and bring home meat, so they choose not to hunt in the AR zones.

I had high hopes for AR's when they first took effect and was willing to give it time to work.  At this point I've decided they are not working and are probably hurting.  Not sure why that is but the evidence is mounting against the idea every year.  Time to face facts and admit it's been a failure.  Either it gets fixed, or it gets scrapped.  It has not had a positive impact on deer hunting in the Catskills as far as I'm concerned.

 

[steve863]

Some of us were predicting failure from the beginning.  Plenty of lively debates on this forum over AR's, especially a few years ago.  The main reason AR's were implemented was because of a few vocal "sportsman" groups who were lobbying the DEC to implement them.  The every day Joe Hunter sure as hell wasn't for them.  I hope these "sportsman" groups got what they wanted.  They helped make the Catskills a ghost town for hunters, so hopefully they can now enjoy the entire Catskill region all to themselves.

 

 

 

[Chef]

I have mixed feelings about AR’s, last year was a great year on my land in 3H. I did not harvest a big buck but I had some trail camera pictures of some real beasts. This year has been the complete opposite, I have not had any “Big” bucks on cam at all. So do they work, who knows. I would like to see more doe tags alongside them.




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[Five Seasons]

33 minutes ago, steve863 said:

Some of us were predicting failure from the beginning.  Plenty of lively debates on this forum over AR's, especially a few years ago.  The main reason AR's were implemented was because of a few vocal "sportsman" groups who were lobbying the DEC to implement them.  The every day Joe Hunter sure as hell wasn't for them.  I hope these "sportsman" groups got what they wanted.  They helped make the Catskills a ghost town for hunters, so hopefully they can now enjoy the entire Catskill region all to themselves.

 

 

 

the thing about predicting the results is that many other states already have them. It's the same discussion every time we bitch about crossbows or season lengths, shooting times. There are many other northern states we can look to for results.

I have never made my mind up on ARs. A few years ago I'd probably be all for it. But then I get a weird year like last year and the only deer I had  a shot at during archery was a 4 point. Not even a doe. And it wasn't for lack of stand time.

Ultimately I tend to subscribe to small government and less regulations and I also believe a lot of hunters are not exactly saints with all game laws. Lets be honest, if you can cutup your own deer and can refrain from sharing on social media there is a very small chance you ever get caught with anything on private land. Which is most of our southern zone.

 

[cbyzerman]

From what I am told the results have been incredible in ulster and orange counties...........

[dbHunterNY]

i'm mostly in WMU 4C that's traditionally been "if it's brown it's down". we're a lot of ag ground but can't compare to western NY and southern tier when it comes to antlers. handful of years we alone on about 300 acres tried 3 points on a side. nobody else around us really did despite we told them what we were doing and someone on us every so often would break that rule.  we definitely saw more 2.5+ yr old bucks but we'd still never see anything 3.5 yrs old with just us doing it. a couple neighbors then somewhat followed 3 points to a side and that helped even more. now we'd have a 3.5+ yr old each year taken on any given property. results still weren't really there. i mean you were guaranteed an opportunity at a respectable rack buck but not filling the wall with shoulder mounts.

fast foward to last handful of years. we formed multiple QDM co-ops in the area with voluntary ARs more than what would be implemented by regulation or law. each with their own set of voluntary ARs based on their own standards for age structure though. ours has min 3 pts on each side and a 15" outside spread (just within ear tip to tip). it protects all yearlings and many 2.5 yr olds. after that they aren't so ignorant and hunting is hunting. new hunters youth or otherwise can shoot whatever. we've gotten bucks 4.5+ yrs old. every year multiple people mount their best buck to date.  rutting activity is insane compared to trickle of activity it was before. some years still better than others. co-ops have boomed around here. about 20,000 acres here in northern rensselaer county now and another 20,000 acres across the boarder in washington county.  that's a lot of hunters that very in skill level and hunting interest. ARs flatten the learning curve versus trying to age a deer and everyone can count pts. still can equate to building an age structure though.

[Chef]

From what I am told the results have been incredible in ulster and orange counties...........

Orange doesn’t have AR’s


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[ApexerER]

5 minutes ago, dbHunterNY said:

i'm mostly in WMU 4C that's traditionally been "if it's brown it's down". we're a lot of ag ground but can't compare to western NY and southern tier when it comes to antlers. handful of years we alone on about 300 acres tried 3 points on a side. nobody else around us really did despite we told them what we were doing and someone on us every so often would break that rule.  we definitely saw more 2.5+ yr old bucks but we'd still never see anything 3.5 yrs old with just us doing it. a couple neighbors then somewhat followed 3 points to a side and that helped even more. now we'd have a 3.5+ yr old each year taken on any given property. results still weren't really there. i mean you were guaranteed an opportunity at a respectable rack buck but not filling the wall with shoulder mounts.

fast foward to last handful of years. we formed multiple QDM co-ops in the area with voluntary ARs more than what would be implemented by regulation or law. each with their own set of voluntary ARs based on their own standards for age structure though. ours has min 3 pts on each side and a 15" outside spread (just within ear tip to tip). it protects all yearlings and many 2.5 yr olds. after that they aren't so ignorant and hunting is hunting. new hunters youth or otherwise can shoot whatever. we've gotten bucks 4.5+ yrs old. every year multiple people mount their best buck to date.  rutting activity is insane compared to trickle of activity it was before. some years still better than others. co-ops have boomed around here. about 20,000 acres here in northern rensselaer county now and another 20,000 acres across the boarder in washington county.  that's a lot of hunters that very in skill level and hunting interest. ARs flatten the learning curve versus trying to age a deer and everyone can count pts. still can equate to building an age structure though.

Our lease is in Rensselaer County and we follow these same rules. Someone always kills a beauty and we get a couple of nice 8's every year. Glad to know there are others around us doing the same. 

[hconn2018]

If one was allowed to bait in NY do you think we would see more of the mature bucks showing up on cameras which would maybe prove that antler restrictions do work?

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[phade]

9 minutes ago, hconn2018 said:

If one was allowed to bait in NY do you think we would see more of the mature bucks showing up on cameras which would maybe prove that antler restrictions do work?

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And, there's the gas on the fire.

I get the purpose of asking but it's an off-season topic IMO. Time to go hunt (if you aren't at work or family responsibilities).

[Chef]

And, there's the gas on the fire.
I get the purpose of asking but it's an off-season topic IMO. Time to go hunt (if you aren't at work or family responsibilities).

I’ll extinguish that fire right now, I hunt 3h aka Sullivan county. The law is different there then in any part of the state as it is the only county where off season feeding is legal... I know people that feed and run cams all summer till late September. 3h is also in a AR zone. No the baiting makes no difference in what he sees and what I see! Fire out


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[hconn2018]

I’ll extinguish that fire right now, I hunt 3h aka Sullivan county. The law is different there then in any part of the state as it is the only county where off season feeding is legal... I know people that feed and run cams all summer till late September. 3h is also in a AR zone. No the baiting makes no difference in what he sees and what I see! Fire out


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What you don't see is the mature bucks that show up during the season on camera when they are chasing the does you fed all summer

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[Chef]

What you don't see is the mature bucks that show up during the season on camera when they are chasing the does you fed all summer

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Mature bucks are much easier to pattern on their summer patterns my friend nice try. Now can we get back to a decent thread and not poison it with your crap


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[hconn2018]

Mature bucks are much easier to pattern on their summer patterns my friend nice try. Now can we get back to a decent thread and not poison it with your crap


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I am not saying they are not easier to pattern in the summer. What I am saying is you will see many new bucks this week and the first week in November that you never saw before which may prove to someone that the antler restrictions are working

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[Eric J]

My friend has property in 3H... the AR have worked well... We used to get only "Scrub Bucks"... pencil sized antlers.. the past couple years... nice Eight's have come off that property.

[Dinsdale]

I know a few long time local taxidermists who are impressed at the size of bucks being taken and number.

I've never really seen the big deal; shooting a one side fork horn with a 1" nub brow tine qualifies for 3 on one side.  I hunt AR areas that have always been tough hunting, deer never have come easy and DMP's were party permits or limited(or non existent) for 30 years.

[steve863]

Why does it seem that in every AR thread we get these guys with 3 total posts to their name here telling us how great AR's work?    These dudes must be from those "sportsman" clubs that bamboozled the DEC to implement AR's.

[hconn2018]

Why does it seem that in every AR thread we get these guys with 3 total posts to their name here telling us how great AR's work?    These dudes must be from those "sportsman" clubs that bamboozled the DEC to implement AR's.

Yet not one person has actually answered my original question

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[steve863]

18 minutes ago, hconn2018 said:

Yet not one person has actually answered my original question

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Your question was about baiting and how it would prove that AR's work.  Baiting is ILLEGAL in NYS, so your question is irrelevant to the discussion.

[hconn2018]

Your question was about baiting and how it would prove that AR's work.  Baiting is ILLEGAL in NYS, so your question is irrelevant to the discussion.

No it's really not

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[Canis Latrans]

I've created a new thread with a poll. Please go and answer the poll. Please discuss in that thread. Mods please close or merge threads. 

 

 

Edited October 30, 2018 by Canis Latrans

[dbHunterNY]

1 hour ago, steve863 said:

Why does it seem that in every AR thread we get these guys with 3 total posts to their name here telling us how great AR's work?    These dudes must be from those "sportsman" clubs that bamboozled the DEC to implement AR's.

no they all have more than 3 posts now so their comments are now totally legit and acceptable. 

 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

1 hour ago, hconn2018 said:

Yet not one person has actually answered my original question

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So you are running multiple accounts on this forum?

[ny hunter]

Been hunting 3h for 20 years .... Havd taken nice deer and leg plenty walk...Can not say AR is working or not..