Showing a DEC officer a gut pile?

[Burrr]

Having heard that several of the top deer in the Sullivan County Democrat's annual big buck contest have been disqualified for being taken over bait, I've been wondering what law/regulation requires a hunter show a DEC officer where they shot a deer if said deer is already off-site and legally tagged? I often read in the DEC officer highlights the officers ask suspected poachers/baiters to show the kill spot or gut pile - what would happen if you said no?

[Chef]

Having heard that several of the top deer in the Sullivan County Democrat's annual big buck contest have been disqualified for being taken over bait, I've been wondering what law/regulation requires a hunter show a DEC officer where they shot a deer if said deer is already off-site and legally tagged? I often read in the DEC officer highlights the officers ask suspected poachers/baiters to show the kill spot or gut pile - what would happen if you said no?

As someone who hunts in Sullivan I’m curious how they could even tell this if the deer was already gutted when they brought it in


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[cbyzerman]

Nothing...........   You dont have to show them anything........  tell them to beat it..............   Plus you do not have to gut the deer where it died you just have to tag it there..........

[wooly]

12 minutes ago, cbyzerman said:

Nothing...........   You dont have to show them anything........  tell them to beat it..............   Plus you do not have to gut the deer where it died you just have to tag it there..........

LOL- yeah, get lost Mr. DEC officer. If you want incriminating evidence against me go find it for yourself!

Mr. DEC officer hangs his head in shame and heads out to investigate another NY mountain lion sighting and you never hear from him again,lol

If he's asking you to show him where you killed your deer, he probably already knows, and is giving you a chance to come clean and cooperate, and maybe even cut you some kind of break unless you turn into some kind of un-cooperative guilt ridden ass wipe.

[BizCT]

I’ve heard it of happening at a local butcher. DEC is there time to time and when deer come in they check the teeth. If they see a bunch of corn or say red colored powder, they have the hunter show them the kill spot and then they find bait piles.

I wish baiting violations would mean lifetime ban.


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[Steuben Jerry]

7 minutes ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

red colored powder

What's the red colored powder?

[grampy]

4 minutes ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

I’ve heard it of happening at a local butcher. DEC is there time to time and when deer come in they check the teeth. If they see a bunch of corn or say red colored powder, they have the hunter show them the kill spot and then they find bait piles.

I wish baiting violations would mean lifetime ban.


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But what if the deer was shot in a corn field?  Not sure how anyone could tell if the deer was taken over bait, after it has been cleaned up and transported?

 

And I agree with you. If convicted of baiting or poaching, no more licence.
 

[BizCT]

What's the red colored powder?

I was just making a reference to some sort of odd colored bait/powder that a DEC officer would recognize as not being something around this area (like Corn)


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[BizCT]

But what if the deer was shot in a corn field?  Not sure how anyone could tell if the deer was taken over bait, after it has been cleaned up and transported?
 
And I agree with you. If convicted of baiting or poaching, no more licence.
 

No corn fields around here.


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[Burrr]

15 minutes ago, wooly said:

LOL- yeah, get lost Mr. DEC officer. If you want incriminating evidence against me go find it for yourself!

Mr. DEC officer hangs his head in shame and heads out to investigate another NY mountain lion sighting and you never hear from him again,lol

If he's asking you to show him where you killed your deer, he probably already knows, and is giving you a chance to come clean and cooperate, and maybe even cut you some kind of break unless you turn into some kind of un-cooperative guilt ridden ass wipe.

If the officer already knows,  you would think he'd have the ticket written and wouldn't bother going on a detour to see where a deer was shot - and if he is willing to take that detour I would assume he is looking for more wrong-doings to charge you with.

[GreenDrake]

Like most law enforcement officers, they prefer some sort of confession or corroboration for whatever evidence they may already have to ensure conviction of the alleged offender if it should proceed yo a trial. 

[G-Man]

Actually that is how they got a guy in ohio that killed a huge buck that frequented our rail yard. Gut pile and blood on. Railroad property, matched DNA to buck he shot ..huge fine in all the magazines.. 

 

[wooly]

2 minutes ago, Burrr said:

If the officer already knows,  you would think he'd have the ticket written and wouldn't bother going on a detour to see where a deer was shot - and if he is willing to take that detour I would assume he is looking for more wrong-doings to charge you with.

Most poachers get turned in on a tip, or in this case, a butcher shop discovery.

The officers usually investigate the scene first to determine if they have a case... then to collect as much un-tampered evidence as they can and then compare it to the suspects story to see what matches up and what doesn't. These officers aren't the stumbling, bumbling fools some guys make them out to be.

 

[Steuben Jerry]

I'm pretty much of the mindset that I'm going to be as cooperative as I can when approached by the DEC or any other LEO. Then again, I've got nothing to hide. Why tick 'em off? No good can come out of that. 

[Steuben Jerry]

6 minutes ago, wooly said:

These officers aren't the stumbling, bumbling fools some guys make them out to be.

One of our sons in law is a game warden in another state. Well, up until two weeks ago when he got a new job with his local police force. He had to take a course in deer forensics a while back. Pretty cool to hear how he can put the pieces of the puzzle together. Agreed, they're not dummies.

[Burrr]

6 minutes ago, Steuben Jerry said:

I'm pretty much of the mindset that I'm going to be as cooperative as I can when approached by the DEC or any other LEO. Then again, I've got nothing to hide. Why tick 'em off? No good can come out of that. 

of course if you're innocent you you would cooperate. But when you read the DEC officer highlights it seems an awful lot of guilty poeple tend to cooperate as well, and while the brief write-ups of incidents leave out 99% of the story, it doesn't appear that the officers cut any slack for cooperation (based on the citations).

I didn't start the thread as an instructional how-to on baiting deer and getting away with it, I was just curious if there was a legal or regulatory requirement that said you HAVE to show where you killed a legally tagged deer.

[WNYBuckHunter]

50 minutes ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

I’ve heard it of happening at a local butcher. DEC is there time to time and when deer come in they check the teeth. If they see a bunch of corn or say red colored powder, they have the hunter show them the kill spot and then they find bait piles.

I wish baiting violations would mean lifetime ban.


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So all you master baiters out there, remember to brush your deer's teeth before taking it to the processor....

[Steuben Jerry]

17 minutes ago, Burrr said:

I didn't start the thread as an instructional how-to on baiting deer and getting away with it, I was just curious if there was a legal or regulatory requirement that said you HAVE to show where you killed a legally tagged deer.

No worries Burrr, I never thought about it before, but reading your post got me curious about it too. Good post!

[Four Season Whitetail's]

14 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

So all you master baiters out there, remember to brush your deer's teeth before taking it to the processor....

Or just dont buy the corn with the pic of the big buck on it.

[Al Bundy]

The answer is NO you do not have to show him your gut pile. He is asking your permission as he has no legal right to go onto your property, unless he sees a violation.  In which case he wont be asking.....

If you tell him no, I THINK what would happen next is he would attempt to get a warrant.  But if you tell him no and land is all legally posted and gated, he cannot go out there.

 

 

[CapDistPatriot]

1 hour ago, Steuben Jerry said:

What's the red colored powder?

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Wildgame-Innovations-Apple-Crush-Deer-Attractant-Power-Powder-5-lb-Bag/22985100?athcpid=22985100&athpgid=athenaItemPage&athcgid=null&athznid=PWVUB&athieid=v0&athstid=CS020&athguid=582b1460-228-1677ef0422344d&athena=true

[dbHunterNY]

1 hour ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

 

No corn fields around here.


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in a whietail buck's home range of 600 acres or more, plus any excursion it could be doing from say several miles away. there's no way of knowing some joe hunter didn't plant a corn food plot for deer that the deer in question happened to walk by.  i fully believe wooly when they already have most of the pieces to make you guilty enough but they're giving you a chance to be honest and come clean, not to get out of it it all but maybe they're contemplating writing more than one.

[BizCT]

in a whietail buck's home range of 600 acres or more, plus any excursion it could be doing from say several miles away. there's no way of knowing some joe hunter didn't plant a corn food plot for deer that the deer in question happened to walk by.  i fully believe wooly when they already have most of the pieces to make you guilty enough but they're giving you a chance to be honest and come clean, not to get out of it it all but maybe they're contemplating writing more than one.

There’s no corn in the entire county!


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[mlammerhirt]

There’s no corn in the entire county!


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Not that I don't believe you....but someone has to be growing corn in a backyard garden for the fun of it.

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[Al Bundy]

2 hours ago, dbHunterNY said:

in a whietail buck's home range of 600 acres or more, plus any excursion it could be doing from say several miles away. there's no way of knowing some joe hunter didn't plant a corn food plot for deer that the deer in question happened to walk by.  i fully believe wooly when they already have most of the pieces to make you guilty enough but they're giving you a chance to be honest and come clean, not to get out of it it all but maybe they're contemplating writing more than one.

Wrong answer...   They are asking you to help prove a case, not cut you a break on some possible other ticket.  You have no legal obligation to allow them out on your property, hence why you are ASKED if its OK to go out.