DEC new Regulations Buck only

[Doc]

As long as we are rearranging the whole system....wouldn't it make more sense to move the valid license dates? Why have the new license year on October 1st. Heck...make it June or July to coincide with the federal duck stamps....lol. then I don't have to carry multiple pieces of paper while duck hunting. It would give plenty of time to evaluate last years take....set quotas.....and issue licenses and have a second Doe Permit drawing....all in time for the NZ bow opener.

Seems logical to me. But that isn't in the 5-year plan. Maybe that's because it's too logical..... ;D

[hunter]

What doesn't make sense is having early seasons only for those who didn't fill last year's tag like early bear and NZ archery before Oct. 1. Plus you have to carry last year's lic to small game up to Oct 1.

[WNYBuckHunter]

It was tongue in cheek.

I wasnt playing any "dictionary game", a lottery simply is not a competition, and I get a bit testy when I hear people making hunting into any type of competition. Its 100% unnecessary.

Sorry, but that is exactly what any game of chance that involves winners and losers is.... competition. You don't have to like it but then it wasn't me that devised the system that turns DMP issuance into a game of chance where all hunters compete for for the right to hunt does.

Look, if you want to keep going with this, fine. Competition has nothing to do with a game of chance. Lottery has nothing to do with competition.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lottery

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/competition?show=0&t=1312378207

There is no opinion in those definitions, they are what they are.

In my opinion, hunting is not, and should never become a competition. If thats how you look at it, you are missing what hunting is really about. People making it into a competition are the ones ruining it for the rest of us by turning deer hunting into a greed filled money game where people lose all respect for themselves and others in their quest to out-do everyone they know and claim the self imposed title of the best hunter around.

[WNYBuckHunter]

As far as changing the closing date for the lottery, that probably won't be happening.

If all seasons go to the DMP system, they would have to change the dates to allow early season hunters (Bow) to get their DMPs in time for opening day. Why wouldnt they change the dates?

[G-Man]

doe tags are given out immediatly and have been vaild for the entire bow season for a few years now. so i dont see a problem there. the second lottery is usually for undersuscribed areas like 9f? around buffalo(my area never has extra after theh application process). as i apply when i buy my licence i am getting it the sametime as all other bow hunters would anyway. the only people that should be having a problem with this are those that buy a supersportsman, nothing has been said as to what 3 tags will be issued.. yes 1 buck for bow 1 for reg season but what for mzloder? now is an anterless only... seems everyone forgot this and is worried about either sex tag going(i usually hold out for a decent buck in bow anyway). but the 3rd tag was alway anterless valid anywhere bow or mz, now what are they going to do issue a 3rd buck tag? i have read and reread the proposal and do not see the answer for what the 3rd tag will be.....

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I read it and didn't see it. I think that was by design. I believe you will be getting one regular season buck tag and one buck tag valid for the special permits you buy....."Thank you very much for your donation"

If I didn't hunt up in NZ in the early ML I would have to look at not buying the ML tag until I saw how I did during the SZ bow season. I think we will only be getting 2 tags with the super sportsman

[WNYBuckHunter]

doe tags are given out immediatly and have been vaild for the entire bow season for a few years now. so i dont see a problem there. the second lottery is usually for undersuscribed areas like 9f? around buffalo(my area never has extra after theh application process). as i apply when i buy my licence i am getting it the sametime as all other bow hunters would anyway. the only people that should be having a problem with this are those that buy a supersportsman, nothing has been said as to what 3 tags will be issued.. yes 1 buck for bow 1 for reg season but what for mzloder? now is an anterless only... seems everyone forgot this and is worried about either sex tag going(i usually hold out for a decent buck in bow anyway). but the 3rd tag was alway anterless valid anywhere bow or mz, now what are they going to do issue a 3rd buck tag? i have read and reread the proposal and do not see the answer for what the 3rd tag will be.....

Again, as it is now, there is 1 buck tag for regular season and 1 buck tag that you can use either in bow or ML. If you use your buck tag in bow season, all you have left for ML is antlerless. Why would it be any different under the new proposed system?

[WNYBuckHunter]

I read it and didn't see it. I think that was by design. I believe you will be getting one regular season buck tag and one buck tag valid for the special permits you buy....."Thank you very much for your donation"

If I didn't hunt up in NZ in the early ML I would have to look at not buying the ML tag until I saw how I did during the SZ bow season. I think we will only be getting 2 tags with the super sportsman

Isnt it cheaper to buy them all in the same tag (super sportsman) than to separate them out?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

might be I will be looking at that. I may buy a sportsman and a bow and then the ML IF I need it. If I tag out by then...why bother.

[WNYBuckHunter]

So here goes...

Super sportsman - $88

Sportsman + Bow - $68 ($47 + $21)

Sportsman + Bow + ML - $89 ($47 + $21 + $21)

Do you still want your turkey tags? Thats another $10 that you wouldnt spend with the Super sportsman.

[G-Man]

the propoasl is for all ANTERLESS TAGS TO BE DMPS!! YES that includes your either sex tag!  so what does that do to your anterless only tag you get now eliminate it??

[WNYBuckHunter]

the propoasl is for all ANTERLESS TAGS TO BE DMPS!! YES that includes your either sex tag!  so what does that do to your anterless only tag you get now eliminate it??

Yep, it gets thrown into the DMP system, giving you a good chance at getting it through the DMP system. The bottom line is, some areas need the extra regulation on antlerless that the DMP system provides. If there arent enough does in a particular area, you shouldnt be shooting them, you are just helping to ruin your future hunting. Whats wrong with letting the herd recover from the mistakes of the past? Sure it would be great if the mistakes werent made to begin with, but continuing with the current system sure as hell isnt helping anything to become better.

[G-Man]

so again what is your 3rd tag for a supersportsman?? they will take your money but no tag just a chance of a dmp? if all anterless tags are to be dmps, unlike the current system of 3 tags. buck,either sex,

and anterless.(not dpm) plus chance for 2 dmp. the new system will be buck , buck, ????, chance for 2 dmp? your getting ripped off as mz (if you buy all your tags) is an anterless now and what will it be replaced with under the  new proposal???

[G-Man]

I self regulate my deer population within the dec allowed rules. i need to take 10 doe  a year from my property, this is done thru the either sex and anterless only tags provided with your supersportsman. the dmps are iffy in my area and we as a group would not get enough tags to do this. yes 10 doe seem like a lot but we have been doing this since 1995 and it works for us.

[WNYBuckHunter]

so again what is your 3rd tag for a supersportsman?? they will take your money but no tag just a chance of a dmp? if all anterless tags are to be dmps, unlike the current system of 3 tags. buck,either sex,

and anterless.(not dpm) plus chance for 2 dmp. the new system will be buck , buck, ??? ?, chance for 2 dmp? your getting ripped off as mz (if you buy all your tags) is an anterless now and what will it be replaced with under the  new proposal???

You dont get a 3rd buck tag, you enter into the DMP lottery and get your DMPs. Say I went and got my Regular season license and my Archery license (as things stand now), what additional tag would I get if I then bought my ML license later?

You need to look at it like you are buying a license to hunt with whatever weapon that license allows you to use, not a tag.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I self regulate my deer population within the dec allowed rules. i need to take 10 doe  a year from my property, this is done thru the either sex and anterless only tags provided with your supersportsman. the dmps are iffy in my area and we as a group would not get enough tags to do this. yes 10 doe seem like a lot but we have been doing this since 1995 and it works for us.

How do you know how many tags your group would get under the proposed system? Per the DEC, the number of available DMPs in your area would go up under the new system. Need more doe gone? Get more guys that have tags in there with the stipulation that its doe only.

[G-Man]

my area is at medium with no chance for a second permit. i have 10 people hunting. there have been quite a few years that it took till mz season to get the 10 doe. to get 10 doe tag your talking high and high for second permit. the increase will be there but i dont see it getting up that high.

As for buying a licence for the right to hunt with that weapon.. many $$ will be lost to the state, guys want a tag for their $ and face it its all about $$.    i just dont think it was thought all the way through by the dec.

[otis2]

I’ll definitely retire the muzzle loader if (when) this happens.  It isn’t worth the extra cash to me just to be able to hunt with a different firearm.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Ok, can someone please tell me what other tags you get right now if you buy a Bow/Regular Season license now and a ML later. What other tags do you get with the ML purchase?

BTW, look at what the DEC says you are paying for currently with each license purchase...

http://www.dec.ny.gov/permits/6395.html

...PRIVLIDGE, not tags. 

[burmjohn]

I think you get an extra tag to be honest, I want to say its a doe tag?  With bow you get an either sex tag, then with the addition of muzzle you get a doe? I have to check or see what I get this year.  It is a little confusing.... Maybe I can look tonight at my old tags.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

If you get sportsman and bow you get buck and an either sex......if you buy sportsman and ml....you get buck and either sex......go buy the bow with it or after.......you get an antlerless only

[burmjohn]

Yeah that sounds right, I got my MZ tag after everything else last year and I received an antlerless tag.

[nyantler]

With all the concern with how many tags there might or might not be I'm surprised anyone still hunted back when you only got a buck tag and possibly an antlerless party permit. Guys get way to rapped up in "how many" instead of "how much fun".

If I paid the same as I do now (about $100) and they only issued me one tag... I would still hunt and have a great time doing it with any weapon they allowed... I know a lot of you that don't see it that way and I feel sorry for you... Although I have reservations about how the DEC decides bag limits and seasons... I don't.. and won't... let the decisions they make affect my hunting experience. If they said I could only hunt one day a year with just a doe only tag and a spoon.. I'd be out on that day looking to take my first whitetail with a spoon... now that would be a challenge!

[SteveB]

Joe - it's a little hard to understand the concern for how many when only something like 1 in 3 hunters take even 1 deer/yr?

[nyantler]

Joe - it's a little hard to understand the concern for how many when only something like 1 in 3 hunters take even 1 deer/yr?

Yeah that is baffling... guys that have trouble killing one deer want 4-5 tags and get pissed if they don't get them... I would think they would be more concerned about their method of hunting or ways to obtain more hunting land than how many tags the DEC will be giving them.