Viral video of a-holes torturing buck in Pennsylvania

[Nomad]

2 hours ago, NFA-ADK said:

Now you know where they get it from if the MOM is a possum stomping crazy lady that thinks everyone tortures animals.  

I’ve read that , that person is not the Mom of one of them  or even related to him . But who knows it’s hard to sort out all the posts, and many of the FB pages are of course down .

One kids step Dad IS a local chief of police , and I read that he turned them in, which would largely be just trying to get ahead of things as they were already on to them . The other family owns a BBQ joint in Brookville , which I suspect will see a sudden downturn in business.

Ive heard there’s other videos , of them crushing a chipmunk with a 4X4, and beating a groundhog to death and throwing it into a river after .

Chipmunk , groundhog , deer ....... hum what would have been next ?

Edited December 2, 2019 by Nomad

[left field]

Yeah, I just read that. Sorry, I jumped the gun before verifying the quote. Too late to remove it. 

Edited December 2, 2019 by left field

[Elmo]

I only stomp on cats and kill possums so I'm in the other 50%.  J/K.

It's is well documented that pretty much every serial killer had tortured animals in their youth.  That's how I see it.  Two future serial killers in the making that needs to be addressed.  If you don't stop them young, it'll be harder to stop them when they're older.

[Elmo]

The dude, Bob Chase, in the article didn't do a very good job responding either.  He only focused on the negative attention hunters will receive as oppose to stating that hunters are appalled by this act as well.

[Nomad]

4 minutes ago, Elmo said:

The dude, Bob Chase, in the article didn't do a very good job responding either.  He only focused on the negative attention hunters will receive as oppose to stating that hunters are appalled by this act as well.

I agree , but we don’t know everything he said ,just what they printed .

But yes , we should just be outraged over these sick individuals, and not concerned that it may make hunters look bad .

 

[hunterdan44]

Depraved individuals for sure. They need to be locked away from society. They will be in the news again for sure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Culvercreek hunt club]

On 12/2/2019 at 11:28 AM, chrisw said:

These two are perfect candidates for Trump's new law on animal cruelty being a federal offense and now considered a felony. Although the bill is said to not apply to hunting, fishing or trapping, I think every hunter out there can agree that this is not hunting or a representative of any form of hunting. We'll see... Sadly I bet they get off with a slap on the wrist.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk
 

Almost every animal cruelty law has an exemption for hunting, trapping and fishing (including the new Federal law). Unfortunately this was conducted while in the act of hunting from a legal perspective. These are some sick demented a holes and I'd bet future serial killers so don't get me wrong on that point. Here is my concern and I may be accused of wearing a tin foil hat. With something this depraved I am certain that the hunting, fishing and trapping communities as a whole would rally squarely behind opposing this behavior. SO we actually are on the same side as the animal rights groups and push for a legal action. (I can't seem to find anyone that can tell me what law would have been actually broken though).  SO this gets resolved and we fast forward. I see many making fun of the opossum stomping comment. How many know of how many trappers dispatch the animals they catch?   I am CERTAIN that many on here would really be set back to see the common practices. I've seen guys on this forum and other hunting forums talking about going up to a wounded deer and slitting it's throat as opposed to shooting it again.  Dozens and dozens of activities that many of us utilize in hunting, fishing and trapping would be viewed by non participants as cruel. That is why these laws have had the exemptions. As depraved as we all think these actions were, we had better be careful hollering side by side with the anti's for legal action. They have proven how adept and willing they are bringing outcry against us. 

[dbHunterNY]

On 12/2/2019 at 2:11 PM, Nomad said:

I’ve read that , that person is not the Mom of one of them  or even related to him . But who knows it’s hard to sort out all the posts, and many of the FB pages are of course down .

One kids step Dad IS a local chief of police , and I read that he turned them in, which would largely be just trying to get ahead of things as they were already on to them . The other family owns a BBQ joint in Brookville , which I suspect will see a sudden downturn in business.

Ive heard there’s other videos , of them crushing a chipmunk with a 4X4, and beating a groundhog to death and throwing it into a river after .

Chipmunk , groundhog , deer ....... hum what would have been next ?

those are true. caught the tail end of the woodchuck vid. the chipmunk was just more disgusting than the deer.

[chrisw]

Almost every animal cruelty law has an exemption for hunting, trapping and fishing (including the new Federal law). Unfortunately this was conducted while in the act of hunting from a legal perspective. These are some sick demented a holes and I'd bet future serial killers so don't get me wrong on that point. Here is my concern and I may be accused of wearing a tin foil hat. With something this depraved I am certain that the hunting, fishing and trapping communities as a whole would rally squarely behind opposing this behavior. SO we actually are on the same side as the animal rights groups and push for a legal action. (I can't seem to find anyone that can tell me what law would have been actually broken though).  SO this gets resolved and we fast forward. I see many making fun of the opossum stomping comment. How many know of how many trappers dispatch the animals they catch?   I am CERTAIN that many on here would really be set back to see the common practices. I've seen guys on this forum and other hunting forums talking about going up to a wounded deer and slitting it's throat as opposed to shooting it again.  Dozens and dozens of activities that many of us utilize in hunting, fishing and trapping would be viewed by non participants as cruel. That is why these laws have had the exemptions. As depraved as we all think these actions were, we had better be careful hollering side by side with the anti's for legal action. They have proven how adept and willing they are bringing outcry against us. 

I've thought about that also, it can be a slippery slope. The difference I see is, these kids were not doing this in an attempt to dispatch the animal. This was done simply for amusement as seen in the video. I am not big into trapping myself, I have done it, wasn't a big fan. I actually ended letting up almost all of the animals go after they were caught because to me the sport ended at me catching them. That being said I am in no way against trapping but I have known trappers who in my opinion inhumanely kill animals on the regular. Now you can say well they are both forms of cruelty, to an anti I'm sure it looks that way. The difference again to me is that these trappers were trying to dispatch the animal, not beat it for amusement. While I choose not to pay attention to trapping customs because I can see light on both sides of the argument I simply cannot look away from this type of behavior in the video. It truly angers me beyond rational thought. This was simple evil. And there are hunting customs out there that I'm more on the anti side of than hunting side at times, I have a deeper respect for almost any animal than most humans. I fully get what you are saying and I agree. But there has to be a line somewhere and this is way over it for me.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[left field]

1 hour ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Almost every animal cruelty law has an exemption for hunting, trapping and fishing (including the new Federal law). Unfortunately this was conducted while in the act of hunting from a legal perspective. These are some sick demented a holes and I'd bet future serial killers so don't get me wrong on that point. Here is my concern and I may be accused of wearing a tin foil hat. With something this depraved I am certain that the hunting, fishing and trapping communities as a whole would rally squarely behind opposing this behavior. SO we actually are on the same side as the animal rights groups and push for a legal action. (I can't seem to find anyone that can tell me what law would have been actually broken though).  SO this gets resolved and we fast forward. I see many making fun of the opossum stomping comment. How many know of how many trappers dispatch the animals they catch?   I am CERTAIN that many on here would really be set back to see the common practices. I've seen guys on this forum and other hunting forums talking about going up to a wounded deer and slitting it's throat as opposed to shooting it again.  Dozens and dozens of activities that many of us utilize in hunting, fishing and trapping would be viewed by non participants as cruel. That is why these laws have had the exemptions. As depraved as we all think these actions were, we had better be careful hollering side by side with the anti's for legal action. They have proven how adept and willing they are bringing outcry against us. 

I have no qualms punishing these "hunters" or others who breaks the law or ethical standards (in as much as the latter is legally punishable.)  

My guess is that ethical trappers kill their animals as quickly as they can. And slitting a downed deer's throat, however tough, is a damn sight better than laughingly kicking it in the head and then posting the video.  

This isn't an us (pro) or them (anti) situation. Frankly there are a lot of hunters that I disagree with.

 

[chrisw]

I have no qualms punishing these "hunters" or others who breaks the law or ethical standards (in as much as the latter is legally punishable.)  
My guess is that ethical trappers kill their animals as quickly as they can. And slitting a downed deer's throat, however tough, is a damn sight better than laughingly kicking it in the head and then posting the video.  
This isn't an us (pro) or them (anti) situation. Frankly there are a lot of hunters that I disagree with.
 

That's basically what I was getting at. Just because I'm a hunter doesn't mean I'm always going to stand side by side with someone because they're a hunter also. I'm not anti hunting obviously but I can see validity in some arguments put forth by them (rarely but it has happened). I'm also pro gun but maybe not as much as some people out there, there are exceptions to everything and everyone draws lines somewhere. The difference is I don't want to be present when certain methods are used to dispatch animals so I avoid them, I don't advocate against them audibly. This instance I will audibly object whether I agree with an anti or not. I'll never not stand for hunting in the grand scheme of things, but this instance is not hunting and something needs to happen. What if nothing were to happen and suddenly this is the new "tide pods challenge" for people? Do we look the other way because it was done under the hunting "blanket." Sorry for the longwinded responses, I just feel passionately about this topic.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[Culvercreek hunt club]

13 minutes ago, left field said:

I have no qualms punishing these "hunters" or others who breaks the law or ethical standards (in as much as the latter is legally punishable.)  

My guess is that ethical trappers kill their animals as quickly as they can. And slitting a downed deer's throat, however tough, is a damn sight better than laughingly kicking it in the head and then posting the video.  

This isn't an us (pro) or them (anti) situation. Frankly there are a lot of hunters that I disagree with.

 

I get it, i do. Maybe you can answer the question I have asked many. This video makes me want to puke but what law did they break? I haven't gotten an answer yet other than there should be a law against their actions. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

1 minute ago, chrisw said:

That's basically what I was getting at. Just because I'm a hunter doesn't mean I'm always going to stand side by side with someone because they're a hunter also. I'm not anti hunting obviously but I can see validity in some arguments put forth by them (rarely but it has happened). I'm also pro gun but maybe not as much as some people out there, there are exceptions to everything and everyone draws lines somewhere. The difference is I don't want to be present when certain methods are used to dispatch animals so I avoid them, I don't advocate against them audibly. This instance I will audibly object whether I agree with an anti or not. I'll never not stand for hunting in the grand scheme of things, but this instance is not hunting and something needs to happen. What if nothing were to happen and suddenly this is the new "tide pods challenge" for people? Do we look the other way because it was done under the hunting "blanket." Sorry for the longwinded responses, I just feel passionately about this topic.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk
 

I agree they need to be dealt with and I can see just what you said about the tide pod challenge. Seems like this new generation is good with attention whether it is positive or negative attention. I am just expressing caution on how quickly we cuddle up with the anti's in a rush to pass a law or change a law. I have never seen a law yet that was any good when crafted by emotion. 

[left field]

4 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I get it, i do. Maybe you can answer the question I have asked many. This video makes me want to puke but what law did they break? I haven't gotten an answer yet other than there should be a law against their actions. 

I don't know. F&G seem to have broad powers and there may be state or local animal cruelty laws that can be applied. My guess is that there are a lot if people looking at it. 

[chrisw]

I see people wondering what law was broken and understand it's complicated by hunting clauses to the law. To me this is the simplest answer. ANIMAL CRUELTY. Does anyone even know if these kids were actively hunting during this video? I never saw a weapon? They were dressed like hunters I know but...? What would you guys consider the law broken if they hit this deer with their car and then did what they did in the video? Would it then be animal cruelty? Again I don't know for sure, but if this didn't break a single law but I can't have more than 10rds in my magazine then shame on society...

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[avg. joe]

Big thread on this at HuntingPA.com.

https://www.huntingpa.com/forums/20-general-hunting-forum/302441-animal-abuse.html

[left field]

32 minutes ago, chrisw said:

I see people wondering what law was broken and understand it's complicated by hunting clauses to the law. To me this is the simplest answer. ANIMAL CRUELTY. Does anyone even know if these kids were actively hunting during this video? I never saw a weapon? They were dressed like hunters I know but...? What would you guys consider the law broken if they hit this deer with their car and then did what they did in the video? Would it then be animal cruelty? Again I don't know for sure, but if this didn't break a single law but I can't have more than 10rds in my magazine then shame on society...

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk
 

Yes. You don't have legal immunity from acts of cruelty (if that is a law there) just because you're hunting. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

14 hours ago, left field said:

Yes. You don't have legal immunity from acts of cruelty (if that is a law there) just because you're hunting. 

This seems to be the issue I see with any of the animal cruelty laws I have read. In PA the sections on this offense is extremely detailed. If you want to see what I mean take a peek. It's down to how a farmer can support the udders on a cow and not milking for over 24 hours to how an animal's ears can be docked. https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/li/uconsCheck.cfm?yr=2017&sessInd=0&act=10

 

Then all the way at the end it says this. 

§ 5561.  Nonapplicability of subchapter.

(a)  Game law.--This subchapter shall not apply to, interfere with or hinder any activity which is authorized or permitted under 34 Pa.C.S. (relating to game) or the regulations promulgated under those laws.

 

When you read 34 Pa.C.S and see what evidence of hunting is and the definitions and prohibitions in this section of the game law I can't see how they will make a case. If nothing else comes of this I hope a couple things. They get these evil bastards under someones microscope becasue they are going to be an issue in the future and maybe they can get the laws refined to address what we have seen here. 

[AuburnNYC]

The thing that is so bad about stuff like this is that those kids will now be viewed by the general public as "Hunters". Can't believe the mom's response.

Not a lawyer but took a quick look at the codes. I think you could make a strong argument that once they shot the deer and chose not to dispatch it under 2305 they are no longer protected by hunting privileges.

Aggravated cruelty to an animal is a felony defined as "Torture: Inflicting severe and prolonged pain from burning, crushing or wounding."

Could easily seeing them plea down to Cruelty to Animal (misdemeanor) and losing hunting privileges for life in order to not face a judge or jury on a felony charge.

 

§ 2305.  Retrieval and disposition of killed or wounded game or wildlife.

(a)  General rule.--It is unlawful for any person who kills or wounds any game or wildlife while engaged in any activities permitted by this title to refuse or neglect to make a reasonable effort to retrieve, retain or lawfully dispose of such game or wildlife.

(b)  Penalty.--A violation of this section is a summary offense of the fourth degree.

 

§ 5533.  Cruelty to animal.

(a)  Offense defined.--A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly or recklessly illtreats, overloads, beats, abandons or abuses an animal.

(b)  Grading.--

(1)  Except as set forth in paragraph (2), a violation of this section is a summary offense.

(2)  If the violation causes bodily injury to the animal or places the animal at imminent risk of serious bodily injury, a violation of this section is a misdemeanor of the second degree.

 

§ 5534.  Aggravated cruelty to animal.

(a)  Offense defined.--A person commits an offense if the person intentionally or knowingly does any of the following:

(1)  Tortures an animal.

(b)  Grading.- A violation of this section is a felony of the third degree.

 

"Torture."  Any of the following acts directed toward or against an animal unless directed to be performed by a licensed doctor of veterinary medicine acting within the normal scope of practice:

(2)  Inflicting severe and prolonged pain from burning, crushing or wounding.

[Steuben Jerry]

Just saw this update, they finally charged them. At least they’re felony charges. Hope they don’t get to deal their way out of them.

https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2020/01/10/brookville-deer-abuse-video-charges-filed/

 

 

[Just Lucky]

What these kids did to that deer is appalling to me. However I am not sure I agree with criminal charges based on a humane or inhumane killing. The video recording of it is what disturbs me the most.

This case has already been used against us hunters, regardless that we do not agree with the kids actions, or we do not want to call them hunters.

If these kids are found guilty I believe it can be used against the hunting community more. 

As stated already, with trapping, alot of critters get "stomped" or hit in the head with a club, or slitting a deer's throat. Is letting a deer gutshot lay over night inhumane aince it wasn't  dispatched quickly? 

It all seems unethical and inhumane to someome and I do not like leaving decisions up to someone elses common sense or feelings

 

 

 

 

[wolc123]

I can't make out anything in that blurry video, but I think we all agree that torturing animals is wrong.  If the utes in that video are found guilty of that then they should pay a steep price and do some time in jail.  

I think many people do not understand that God created man as a meat-eater.  That is why we have the type of teeth that we do, and why our eyes are positioned as they are.  It is a simple design issue: form follows function.   As meat-eaters, killing of animals is necessary.   That said, the faster the animal is dispatched, the better the meat.

For me, it all goes together, maximize the quality of the meat, and minimize the suffering of the animal.  That also applies to fish.   I am against "catch-and-release" fishing for that reason.   Most of the fishing I do is for fish I intend to eat.   I always get them into the boat, with as little delay as possible, and keep them in good condition in the ICU ( livewell), until they are mercifully dispatched with a small club, prior to filleting.   I know that meat is going to taste great, when I can still feel those fillets twitching, as I drop them into the vacuum packs.

I have killed a few deer by slitting their throats, but those were first struck by cars and were on the roadsides where the use of a gun may have gotten me into legal trouble.   A sharp knife, properly used, can get the job done almost as fast.   While hunting, I always carry some "spare" ammunition, to get the job done quick when necessary.  

Back when fur was worth decent money, I would dispatch trapped animals using a long handled neck-snare, to hold them in place, and a club.   After they were "knocked out", I would stand on their chest until they were suffocated.  This is how we were taught to kill them in the 4-H trapper training course.   Now that fur is practically worthless, for raccoons: I use a .22 fired perpendicular to the head, aimed at the intersection of an "X" between the ears and the eyes., opossums get that and a second one thru the lungs (they have a smaller brain and are prone to playing their name if you miss that).  I will release any opossums caught from here on out because I have heard that they eat tics.    Skunks get a shotgun blast to the head from 10-15 yards upwind (none has ever sprayed after receiving that treatment).   

I only trap now to control the local raccoon population.   I can't afford to grow enough corn to maintain good deer hunting without raccoon control.   I prefer to do my own killing (by eating deer and fish), rather than depending on others to do it by getting meat from the supermarket.                  

Edited January 11, 2020 by wolc123

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I can't make out anything in that blurry video, but I think we all agree that torturing animals is wrong.  If the utes in that video are found guilty of that then they should pay a steep price and do some time in jail.  
I think many people do not understand that God created man as a meat-eater.  That is why we have the type of teeth that we do, and why our eyes are positioned as they are.  It is a simple design issue: form follows function.   As meat-eaters, killing of animals is necessary.   That said, the faster the animal is dispatched, the better the meat.
For me, it all goes together, maximize the quality of the meat, and minimize the suffering of the animal.  That also applies to fish.   I am against "catch-and-release" fishing for that reason.   Most of the fishing I do is for fish I intend to eat.   I always get them into the boat, with as little delay as possible, and keep them in good condition in the ICU ( livewell), until they are mercifully dispatched with a small club, prior to filleting.   I know that meat is going to taste great, when I can still feel those fillets twitching, as I drop them into the vacuum packs.
I have killed a few deer by slitting their throats, but those were first struck by cars and were on the roadsides where the use of a gun may have gotten me into legal trouble.   A sharp knife, properly used, can get the job done almost as fast.   While hunting, I always carry some "spare" ammunition, to get the job done quick when necessary.  
Back when fur was worth decent money, I would dispatch trapped animals using a long handled neck-snare, to hold them in place, and a club.   After they were "knocked out", I would stand on their chest until they were suffocated.  This is how we were taught to kill them in the 4-H trapper training course.   Now that fur is practically worthless, for raccoons: I use a .22 fired perpendicular to the head, aimed at the intersection of an "X" between the ears and the eyes., opossums get that and a second one thru the lungs (they have a smaller brain and are prone to playing their name if you miss that).  I will release any opossums caught from here on out because I have heard that they eat tics.    Skunks get a shotgun blast to the head from 10-15 yards upwind (none has ever sprayed after receiving that treatment).   
I only trap now to control the local raccoon population.   I can't afford to grow enough corn to maintain good deer hunting without raccoon control.   I prefer to do my own killing (by eating deer and fish), rather than depending on others to do it by getting meat from the supermarket.                  

This coming from a guy that thinks shooting a deer up the ass is a good move. Perfect!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[crappyice]

As stated already, with trapping, alot of critters get "stomped" or hit in the head with a club, or slitting a deer's throat. Is letting a deer gutshot lay over night inhumane aince it wasn't  dispatched quickly? 
It all seems unethical and inhumane to someome and I do not like leaving decisions up to someone elses common sense or feelings
 

I would say the difference between torture and leaving an animal lie or dispatching in a less than savory manner is intent.

A Gut shot deer is gonna die and yes it is unfortunate that it will take so long. Leaving it lie allows for the best chance of recovery to utilize the kill(that’s the intent).
Dispatching trapped animals in various methods allows for the best price for the fur (intent).
The intent of those kids was torture and indefensible


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wolc123]

4 hours ago, Four Season Whitetail's said:

This coming from a guy that thinks shooting a deer up the ass is a good move. Perfect!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That was the best possible move in that particular situation (scoped 30/06 rifle, perfectly still deer, 50 yards away, no wind, good rest).    Thanks for bringing up what might be the best shot that I ever made on a deer.  This delicious Adirondack buck died instantly, guts came out as clean as a whistle, and meat loss was limited to a small neck roast.  It is like the gift that keeps on giving, thanks to a few of you fellas.