Investment year in review.

[Chef]

Sadly our education system is so dysfunctional that much of college is actually remedial work aimed at teaching kids what they should’ve learned in high school… So many things that need to be fixed, starting with offering competitive salaries to educators so that we can attract talent to teach our children. Looking through my high school peers, the ones that went into education aren’t the ones who were exceptional students themselves or who had a profound passion for teaching. Rather, it was just an easy path for them as the bar was exceedingly low. 

Just out of curiosity where did you grow up, growing up in westchester I had some of the most educated, talented, highest paid teachers in the country. I can tell you when I went off to college I felt like I had a leg up on 90% of the people I met.


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[crappyice]

Sadly our education system is so dysfunctional that much of college is actually remedial work aimed at teaching kids what they should’ve learned in high school… So many things that need to be fixed, starting with offering competitive salaries to educators so that we can attract talent to teach our children. Looking through my high school peers, the ones that went into education aren’t the ones who were exceptional students themselves or who had a profound passion for teaching. Rather, it was just an easy path for them as the bar was exceedingly low. 

I used to be a great teacher - thoughtful assignments, high standards, earning an A was quite challenging, earning an F was quite possible, forcing students to redo sloppy work and come in before school or stay late after school to get students to where they need to be.

I still would be a great teacher but "you parents" (since we are making generalizations I guess that's all of you with kids) don't want that. When Little Johnny's essay (likely written by his mommy or tutor) came home slashed with red circles and corrections and a C- in the corner, I was blamed for making LJ feel bad because he was told the truth about his (and uh oh...maybe your) shortcomings. He shouldn't have to do it again or come in early or stay late because he feels singled out and embarrassed (and has lacrosse training!). He "deserves" an A because that would make him feel better.

If you parents can't accept that your spawn is not perfect and should be at school to be taught and teaching takes failure first and then you learn success and TRUST teachers to do what we choose to do as a career (or vocation?) and you parents keep telling then how evil and corrupt we are, you can no longer blame us for not doing our job..

We must agree that all kids are not honor students, right?
We must agree that all kids are not ready for higher education and maybe should pursue more menial labor positions (no shame in that!)?
We must agree that all kids are not winners, are not cute, are not funny, are not smart enough?
But how many would agree that THEIR LITTLE JOHNNY is all the above and that THEIR LJ will live up to Judge Smails epic statement on.children and education, "The world needs ditch differs too!"

Now I teach the children whose parents want their children actually taught and pass those others along. So sad what you parents have done to education.


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[Versatile_Hunter]

29 minutes ago, Chef said:

Just out of curiosity where did you grow up, growing up in westchester I had some of the most educated, talented, highest paid teachers in the country. I can tell you when I went off to college I felt like I had a leg up on 90% of the people I met.


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That’s precisely my point, 90% of people don’t have the privilege upbringing that some of us enjoyed…

I grew up in S. FL and I also had exceptional teachers whom I credit for much of my success. But I took all honors and AP classes.  Those classes were small and the majority of my teachers had PhDs. We all went off to selective universities. The problem is that this comprised less than 20% of my class. And so folks who didn’t have that early motivation to take advanced coursework were stuck in oversized classes with subpar (overworked and underpaid) teachers. Perhaps my experience is unique in that I had the opportunity take exclusively AP classes and to do research at a local university. I think it’s fair to assume that the vast majority of kids today don’t have this option. 

[Versatile_Hunter]

13 minutes ago, crappyice said:

I used to be a great teacher - thoughtful assignments, high standards, earning an A was quite challenging, earning an F was quite possible, forcing students to redo sloppy work and come in before school or stay late after school to get students to where they need to be.

I still would be a great teacher but "you parents" (since we are making generalizations I guess that's all of you with kids) don't want that. When Little Johnny's essay (likely written by his mommy or tutor) came home slashed with red circles and corrections and a C- in the corner, I was blamed for making LJ feel bad because he was told the truth about his (and uh oh...maybe your) shortcomings. He shouldn't have to do it again or come in early or stay late because he feels singled out and embarrassed (and has lacrosse training!). He "deserves" an A because that would make him feel better.

If you parents can't accept that your spawn is not perfect and should be at school to be taught and teaching takes failure first and then you learn success and TRUST teachers to do what we choose to do as a career (or vocation?) and you parents keep telling then how evil and corrupt we are, you can no longer blame us for not doing our job..

We must agree that all kids are not honor students, right?
We must agree that all kids are not ready for higher education and maybe should pursue more menial labor positions (no shame in that!)?
We must agree that all kids are not winners, are not cute, are not funny, are not smart enough?
But how many would agree that THEIR LITTLE JOHNNY is all the above and that THEIR LJ will live up to Judge Smails epic statement on.children and education, "The world needs ditch differs too!"

Now I teach the children whose parents want their children actually taught and pass those others along. So sad what you parents have done to education.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A good friend of mine had the aspirational (misguided?) dream to make a difference and decided to teach at a poor inner city high school. She lasted less than 5 years. Went back law school and is now making bank in DC. I’ve seen the system jade educators…

[BizCT]

Just out of curiosity where did you grow up, growing up in westchester I had some of the most educated, talented, highest paid teachers in the country. I can tell you when I went off to college I felt like I had a leg up on 90% of the people I met.


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Not in America I bet


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[phade]

My undergrad was in education.

Student taught at one of the wealthy suburbs and also inner city.

The teacher I was working for was in his 14th year, and I'll never forget him telling me he was going to his parents to pick up his blacktopping equipment for the summer season. He needed to do it to bring in enough money for the family. 14 years in.

Never took a teaching job after graduation. Got into business and communications. I was making more than him 12 months into my career - and no it's not all about the money, but the front end gap in teaching pay is pretty lame.

[BizCT]

My undergrad was in education.
Student taught at one of the wealthy suburbs and also inner city.
The teacher I was working for was in his 14th year, and I'll never forget him telling me he was going to his parents to pick up his blacktopping equipment for the summer season. He needed to do it to bring in enough money for the family. 14 years in.
Never took a teaching job after graduation. Got into business and communications. I was making more than him 12 months into my career - and no it's not all about the money, but the front end gap in teaching pay is pretty lame.

It all depends on the area though. All the teachers I know make over $125K and some over $150K. All of them are under 40 years old.

SeethroughNY.net you can look up any NYS teacher, cop, fireman or state/county employee salary to verify.


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[ridgerunner88]

I used to be a great teacher - thoughtful assignments, high standards, earning an A was quite challenging, earning an F was quite possible, forcing students to redo sloppy work and come in before school or stay late after school to get students to where they need to be.

I still would be a great teacher but "you parents" (since we are making generalizations I guess that's all of you with kids) don't want that. When Little Johnny's essay (likely written by his mommy or tutor) came home slashed with red circles and corrections and a C- in the corner, I was blamed for making LJ feel bad because he was told the truth about his (and uh oh...maybe your) shortcomings. He shouldn't have to do it again or come in early or stay late because he feels singled out and embarrassed (and has lacrosse training!). He "deserves" an A because that would make him feel better.

If you parents can't accept that your spawn is not perfect and should be at school to be taught and teaching takes failure first and then you learn success and TRUST teachers to do what we choose to do as a career (or vocation?) and you parents keep telling then how evil and corrupt we are, you can no longer blame us for not doing our job..

We must agree that all kids are not honor students, right?
We must agree that all kids are not ready for higher education and maybe should pursue more menial labor positions (no shame in that!)?
We must agree that all kids are not winners, are not cute, are not funny, are not smart enough?
But how many would agree that THEIR LITTLE JOHNNY is all the above and that THEIR LJ will live up to Judge Smails epic statement on.children and education, "The world needs ditch differs too!"

Now I teach the children whose parents want their children actually taught and pass those others along. So sad what you parents have done to education.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My roommate at Officer Training School was a traveling nurse who was taking a huge pay cut to join. I asked him why at 35yrs old was he doing that.

He told me because he was tired of dealing with shitty people and having bosses motivated by not how effective drs/nurses treated patients ailments but instead by how “good” the patients rated their experience.

This ties in with my post, the lack of personal responsibility in this society is creating issues.

Now some of you will argue that the military today is motivated by the wrong things as well (see Afghanistan). From a 30,000ft view you have a point but down at the lower levels where I operate, the majority of people are awesome Americans and I love working with them.


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[Jeremy K]

18 minutes ago, BizCT said:

It all depends on the area though. All the teachers I know make over $125K and some over $150K. All of them are under 40 years old.

SeethroughNY.net you can look up any NYS teacher, cop, fireman or state/county employee salary to verify.


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Depends on the location for sure. They probably pay 37 dollars for their morning coffee.

Edited August 25, 2022 by Jeremy K

[Waterfowler]

26 minutes ago, BizCT said:

It all depends on the area though. All the teachers I know make over $125K and some over $150K. All of them are under 40 years old.

SeethroughNY.net you can look up any NYS teacher, cop, fireman or state/county employee salary to verify.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Yup, teachers on Long Island making that including my wife

[Nomad]

1 hour ago, BizCT said:

fireman or state/county employee salary to verify.

Hey leave us out of this !

Ill never forget when our oldest who was in high school at the time looked up my salary,then asked for a better phone or some such thing .

[BizCT]

Depends on the location for sure. They probably pay 37 dollars for their morning coffee.

That’s not true. [mention=327]crappyice[/mention] cuts through the woods on his way to work / football practice and makes a pot over an open fire.

I can get a large iced coffee from Dunkin for under $4 less than a mile from my house. I do every once in a while, but overall all fast food coffee sucks



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[BizCT]

Hey leave us out of this !
Ill never forget when our oldest who was in high school at the time looked up my salary,then asked for a better phone or some such thing .

Haha that’s amazing


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[BizCT]

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[Rack Attack]

1 hour ago, BizCT said:

It all depends on the area though. All the teachers I know make over $125K and some over $150K. All of them are under 40 years old.

SeethroughNY.net you can look up any NYS teacher, cop, fireman or state/county employee salary to verify.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

As a person who's wife is a public school teacher for 17 year I can guarantee you that is not the norm.  This may be common salaries in downstate where the cost of living is through the roof, but in the remainder of the state it is not the case.  I would wager a bet that the average teacher salary across the state is closer to the 50-60k range which in not a lot of money when you are required to have a masters degree to teach in the state.  My wife came from a working class family, went to SUNY schools, worked all through college, didn't go on fancy vacations, has worked two jobs ever since and is still in student loan debt. 

I completely see both sides of this issue and don't feel that blanket loan forgiveness is going to do a thing for the issue.  This nation will be in the same spot in 5 years that we are today, because this forgiveness does nothing to fix the problem.  All this will do is perpetuate inflation even more by injecting more money into the economy.  

I think others on here have had some good ideas about reducing interest rates or other options that are a potential viable solution for the ones that have current debt.  In addition, I feel something needs to be done to address the extreme rise in cost for college education to actually address the root cause of the issue.  I don't feel that it is appropriate that people that go into a public service or other meaningful careers, using state schools should be put in the situation they are in with the pay that is available to them.  The fact is we NEED go teachers, nurses, etc., and many of these people are the ones getting hurt by the current situation that exists in higher education.

[BizCT]

21 minutes ago, Rack Attack said:

As a person who's wife is a public school teacher for 17 year I can guarantee you that is not the norm.  This may be common salaries in downstate where the cost of living is through the roof, but in the remainder of the state it is not the case.  I would wager a bet that the average teacher salary across the state is closer to the 50-60k range which in not a lot of money when you are required to have a masters degree to teach in the state.  My wife came from a working class family, went to SUNY schools, worked all through college, didn't go on fancy vacations, has worked two jobs ever since and is still in student loan debt. 

I completely see both sides of this issue and don't feel that blanket loan forgiveness is going to do a thing for the issue.  This nation will be in the same spot in 5 years that we are today, because this forgiveness does nothing to fix the problem.  All this will do is perpetuate inflation even more by injecting more money into the economy.  

I think others on here have had some good ideas about reducing interest rates or other options that are a potential viable solution for the ones that have current debt.  In addition, I feel something needs to be done to address the extreme rise in cost for college education to actually address the root cause of the issue.  I don't feel that it is appropriate that people that go into a public service or other meaningful careers, using state schools should be put in the situation they are in with the pay that is available to them.  The fact is we NEED go teachers, nurses, etc., and many of these people are the ones getting hurt by the current situation that exists in higher education.

I agree. that's why i said "it all depends on the area." Raising a family of 4 in Westchester County on a $125K salary would be extremely tight.

[Five Seasons]

3 hours ago, crappyice said:

I used to be a great teacher - thoughtful assignments, high standards, earning an A was quite challenging, earning an F was quite possible, forcing students to redo sloppy work and come in before school or stay late after school to get students to where they need to be.

I still would be a great teacher but "you parents" (since we are making generalizations I guess that's all of you with kids) don't want that. When Little Johnny's essay (likely written by his mommy or tutor) came home slashed with red circles and corrections and a C- in the corner, I was blamed for making LJ feel bad because he was told the truth about his (and uh oh...maybe your) shortcomings. He shouldn't have to do it again or come in early or stay late because he feels singled out and embarrassed (and has lacrosse training!). He "deserves" an A because that would make him feel better.

If you parents can't accept that your spawn is not perfect and should be at school to be taught and teaching takes failure first and then you learn success and TRUST teachers to do what we choose to do as a career (or vocation?) and you parents keep telling then how evil and corrupt we are, you can no longer blame us for not doing our job..

We must agree that all kids are not honor students, right?
We must agree that all kids are not ready for higher education and maybe should pursue more menial labor positions (no shame in that!)?
We must agree that all kids are not winners, are not cute, are not funny, are not smart enough?
But how many would agree that THEIR LITTLE JOHNNY is all the above and that THEIR LJ will live up to Judge Smails epic statement on.children and education, "The world needs ditch differs too!"

Now I teach the children whose parents want their children actually taught and pass those others along. So sad what you parents have done to education.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

jokes on you, I know my kids are idiots

[SilentStalker]

3 hours ago, crappyice said:

I used to be a great teacher - thoughtful assignments, high standards, earning an A was quite challenging, earning an F was quite possible, forcing students to redo sloppy work and come in before school or stay late after school to get students to where they need to be.

I still would be a great teacher but "you parents" (since we are making generalizations I guess that's all of you with kids) don't want that. When Little Johnny's essay (likely written by his mommy or tutor) came home slashed with red circles and corrections and a C- in the corner, I was blamed for making LJ feel bad because he was told the truth about his (and uh oh...maybe your) shortcomings. He shouldn't have to do it again or come in early or stay late because he feels singled out and embarrassed (and has lacrosse training!). He "deserves" an A because that would make him feel better.

If you parents can't accept that your spawn is not perfect and should be at school to be taught and teaching takes failure first and then you learn success and TRUST teachers to do what we choose to do as a career (or vocation?) and you parents keep telling then how evil and corrupt we are, you can no longer blame us for not doing our job..

We must agree that all kids are not honor students, right?
We must agree that all kids are not ready for higher education and maybe should pursue more menial labor positions (no shame in that!)?
We must agree that all kids are not winners, are not cute, are not funny, are not smart enough?
But how many would agree that THEIR LITTLE JOHNNY is all the above and that THEIR LJ will live up to Judge Smails epic statement on.children and education, "The world needs ditch differs too!"

Now I teach the children whose parents want their children actually taught and pass those others along. So sad what you parents have done to education.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So my oldest was in 8th grade last year and she was taking regents Math and Earth Science. She struggled throughout the year in part due to effort issues as well as just not understanding the material. She passes the courses for the year, but just fails the ES regents. The district said they could "pass" her as though she passed and it wouldn't affect her regents status because she passed the course for the year. 

We made her take review classes all summer and she just passed the regents - 20 points higher.  Needless to say, she was ulitmately happy she participatd in the review classes and "truly" passed. I can gurantee you, there will be no effort issues in the future, but i was kind of appalled the district responsed the way they did. She has been a high honor student all of middle school and at the first roadblock, they wanted to push her through, not a good precedent in my opinion. 

Edited August 25, 2022 by SilentStalker
grammar

[crappyice]

jokes on you, I know my kids are idiots

And yours are the kids I love to teach most! Realistic parents who know their kids have shortcomings make the best students and get the majority of my time and effort...and they grow up and make the most improvements!

How quickly people forget how awful remote/at home learning was/is. Parents couldn't wait for schools to open cause they actually started to realize how annoying their kids really are!!!!!!!


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[BizCT]

8 minutes ago, crappyice said:

And yours are the kids I love to teach most! Realistic parents who know their kids have shortcomings make the best students and get the majority of my time and effort...and they grow up and make the most improvements!

How quickly people forget how awful remote/at home learning was/is. Parents couldn't wait for schools to open cause they actually started to realize how annoying their kids really are!!!!!!!


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The does will be happy you're teaching in class instead of from treestands this year

Edited August 25, 2022 by BizCT

[Five Seasons]

25 minutes ago, crappyice said:

And yours are the kids I love to teach most! Realistic parents who know their kids have shortcomings make the best students and get the majority of my time and effort...and they grow up and make the most improvements!

How quickly people forget how awful remote/at home learning was/is. Parents couldn't wait for schools to open cause they actually started to realize how annoying their kids really are!!!!!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think some school admins need an adjustment post remote learning too. Talked to quite a few teacher friends who feel the same but seems the state or school admins aren't listening. We're still holding all of our kids to the same expectations and yet most missed a significant amount of learning and that's not including the social aspects. My kids are entering 4th, 2nd and K. These are critical learning years for reading and writing and yet they seem to be comparing their "levels" to students who had full on in classroom, no mask instruction like it's somehow equal. 

end rant

[crappyice]

I think some school admins need an adjustment post remote learning too. Talked to quite a few teacher friends who feel the same but seems the state or school admins aren't listening. We're still holding all of our kids to the same expectations and yet most missed a significant amount of learning and that's not including the social aspects. My kids are entering 4th, 2nd and K. These are critical learning years for reading and writing and yet they seem to be comparing their "levels" to students who had full on in classroom, no mask instruction like it's somehow equal. 
end rant

Absolutely- I teach MS and out district was full day in school straight through Covid behind masks and plastic shields and I still see the developmental lag - the social aspect more so than the academic piece since the academic piece can't be developed until the social piece catches up.


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[crappyice]

The does will be happy you're teaching in class instead of from treestands this year

I maybe only deer hunted once during a conference day zoom. When we went full remote during the spring of 2020, I may have Turkey hunted "during class". I may have been Unsuccessful during both outings.


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[BizCT]

1 hour ago, Belo said:

I think some school admins need an adjustment post remote learning too. Talked to quite a few teacher friends who feel the same but seems the state or school admins aren't listening. We're still holding all of our kids to the same expectations and yet most missed a significant amount of learning and that's not including the social aspects. My kids are entering 4th, 2nd and K. These are critical learning years for reading and writing and yet they seem to be comparing their "levels" to students who had full on in classroom, no mask instruction like it's somehow equal. 

end rant

I forgot WNY went soft and didn't have kids go to school anymore

[Five Seasons]

19 minutes ago, BizCT said:

I forgot WNY went soft and didn't have kids go to school anymore

ah yes, when it comes to covid it's us upstaters who are soft. Notice they're not dropping off buses of illegals here? haha