So you think you know coyotes in NY? Do you?

[chrisw]

If yotes are limiting deer hunting or turkey hunting opportunities in areas that rely on them for income they're an expense.  They are also expense in any area where money has been spent to increase wildlife populations.
Areas that need to have deer removed have created that expense by not allowing hunting to trim the population.  Same with Lyme issues.
I don't see where I avoided any of your questions.  Did you miss one of my posts?
 

Do you approve of anyone else taking game populations into their own hands as they see fit regardless of game laws? As you do.

Are you an advocate of killing birds of prey as a measure of helping the small game populations?

Do you also target skunks, possums and other small mammals because they are disease carriers?

If you're truly concerned with human safety then wouldn't it be more advantageous to control deer numbers better (reduction)? After all deer kill and injure countless people in this country every year and coyotes haven't killed a single person.

Do you not draw a comparison to this debate that the left also draws with gun control? They take a broad view of gun violence, aim it at people that are uneducated on the subject and suddenly they've created a gun epidemic in this country when in reality it's a societal failure? You are taking a one dimensional view of wildlife management (one that has been refuted many, many times) and applying a control (coyotes) and then molding every wildlife issue around it to push a narrative (same as gun control).

Do you agree or disagree with poaching? (It's a yes or no answer).

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[left field]

Just now, chrisw said:

If you're truly concerned with human safety then wouldn't it be more advantageous to control deer numbers better (reduction)? After all deer kill and injure countless people in this country every year and coyotes haven't killed a single person.

There was a young boy killed in CA in the '80s. Past that, not sure.

[Rattler]

1 hour ago, chrisw said:

Do you approve of anyone else taking game populations into their own hands as they see fit regardless of game laws? As you do.  No I don't and implying I do means you're an ass.

Are you an advocate of killing birds of prey as a measure of helping the small game populations?  Not unless it's legal.

Do you also target skunks, possums and other small mammals because they are disease carriers?  With traps, yes.

If you're truly concerned with human safety then wouldn't it be more advantageous to control deer numbers better (reduction)? After all deer kill and injure countless people in this country every year and coyotes haven't killed a single person.  Coyotes have killed people pal.  Wake up.  So as a hunter you want fewer deer?  That explains your love of yotes.

Do you not draw a comparison to this debate that the left also draws with gun control? They take a broad view of gun violence, aim it at people that are uneducated on the subject and suddenly they've created a gun epidemic in this country when in reality it's a societal failure? You are taking a one dimensional view of wildlife management (one that has been refuted many, many times) and applying a control (coyotes) and then molding every wildlife issue around it to push a narrative (same as gun control). Nice straw man argument attempt. Refute the North American Wildlife Conservation Model for me.

Do you agree or disagree with poaching? (It's a yes or no answer).  No. 

Do you agree you have really lost the debate when you must resort to ad hominem attacks?

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[chrisw]

 

I'm not sure what I've "lost" but I can assure you that since you have no desire to learn, you have "lost" my attention. Keep waging that war against the Boogeyman. I'm out...

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[diplomat019]

@Rattler   Off topic, but would you turn in a poacher?

[The_Real_TCIII]

3 hours ago, left field said:

No, only one death. And not in the US. A young woman in Cape Breton, Nova Scotia was mauled by two coyotes on a hiking trail and later died in the hospital. I happen to know this trail as I hiked it in 1990. 

If human life was your driving concern, you should start to whack deer as they contribute to approx 200 deaths in the US due to collisions as well as just over a billion in insurance claims. 

I think 99.9% of the folks on here are already whacking deer 

[silent death]

I'll shoot a coyote on my land anytime I want I em not taking the chance of my kids or animals getting hurt call me a poacher I could care less us people who live out in the sticks have there own rule sss

Edited February 2, 2020 by silent death

[wolc123]

There are some good arguments on both sides of the coywolf controversy.  There is no point in talking about Western coyotes, since they don't exist in NY.  The positives of having them around, is that they help keep certain nest predators in check (coons, fox, opossum, skunk, weasel, mink, etc), along with some other useless vermin like rats and woodchucks.   They also keep deer numbers in check, in densely-populated areas, where hunting is not allowed.  That one benefits me every weekday, when I must travel thru such a town, to get to and from work.

On the other hand, I can understand some folks hatred of them.  If I were struggling to fill my spring turkey tags and noted a coyote coming in to my call and saw a few piles of feathers, indicating their kills of those birds, I might be tempted with SSS.   There are too many bugs in the woods for me at that time of year, when I spend all my spare time on the water fishing, so that one don't matter to me at all.   If I ever failed to end up with a year's worth of venison for my family by the end of hunting season, I would be pissed.   Fortunately, that has not happened yet, so I am ok with the coywolfs.  I do appreciate the fact that they take out the weakest of the deer first (primarily fawns, wounded, and rut-weakened bucks).   

I would rather err on the side of two few coyotes however, so I would vote for a year round season in NY if given the chance.   The species could certainly handle the increased hunting pressure.  If there were ever to bee "too few" around, they could always readjust the season dates.   If you ar unhappy with the current coywolf situation, my suggestion would be to respect the law and try to enjoy the benefits they provide (the biggest one for me is a safe ride on the highways).      

   

Edited February 2, 2020 by wolc123

[chrisw]

I'll shoot a coyote on my land anytime I want I em not taking the chance of my kids or animals getting hurt call me a poacher I could care less us people who live out in the sticks have there own rule sss

I grew up "in the sticks" and I'm pretty sure it's still called poaching out there too. Same question to you? Do you advocate people taking wildlife control into their own hands as they see fit? What if I disliked deer for bringing ticks around my house? Would you be ok with me killing them outside of the season?

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[silent death]

Iam a POACHER then I'll shoot any fox or coyote after my animals or live stock .and I bet alot of people on this site feel the same way they just wont say it because they dont wanna be trolled bye people like you.. not replying to you again troll elsewhere

Edited February 2, 2020 by silent death

[chrisw]

Iam a POACHER then I'll shoot any fox or coyote after my animals or live stock .and I bet alot of people on this site feel the same way they just wont say it because they dont wanna be trolled bye people like you.. not replying to you again troll elsewhere

You're validating poaching and I'm a troll??

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[Dinsdale]

11 minutes ago, silent death said:

Iam a POACHER then I'll shoot any fox or coyote after my animals or live stock .and I bet alot of people on this site feel the same way they just wont say it because they dont wanna be trolled bye people like you.. not replying to you again troll elsewhere

In NY your not a poacher if you have that situation.

You're allowed to protect animals and property legally. Just have to understand the definitions of damaging and its quite clear and I have shot several coyotes right next door to a DEC officers home when I had cattle (and new born calves).....no issues what so ever. I kill squirrel year round damaging my syrup lines without question.

 

The whole troll thing makes you look foolish......

 

[Dinsdale]

Here's a whole chart.....

https://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/81531.html

[silent death]

9 minutes ago, Dinsdale said:

In NY your not a poacher if you have that situation.

You're allowed to protect animals and property legally. Just have to understand the definitions of damaging and its quite clear and I have shot several coyotes right next door to a DEC officers home when I had cattle (and new born calves).....no issues what so ever. I kill squirrel year round damaging my syrup lines without question.

 

The whole troll thing makes you look 

I em foolish and people need to chill on this site seems once deer seaseon is over everybody loses there freaking minds. I know how the law reads I dont think he knew that though I bet he dont agree with that eathier 

 

Edited February 2, 2020 by silent death

[chrisw]

I em foolish and people need to chill on this site seems once deer seaseon is over everybody loses there freaking minds. I know how the law reads I dont think he knew that though I bet he dont agree with that eathier 
 

"HE did know that actually." And we could've gotten there if you'd have civilly answered my questions instead of childish name calling. Protecting livestock is not the argument at hand, and yes I'm fine with that. Why wouldn't I be?

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[silent death]

5 minutes ago, chrisw said:

"HE did know that actually." And we could've gotten there if you'd have civilly answered my questions instead of childish name calling. Protecting livestock is not the argument at hand, and yes I'm fine with that. Why wouldn't I be?

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No sir u said I was validating poaching read what you said

Edited February 2, 2020 by silent death

[chrisw]

No sir u said I was validating poaching read what you said

You said out in the sticks you make your own rules and you'll shoot a coyote anytime you want too... Is that not what you actually meant then? So do you not agree with killing coyotes out of season other than protecting livestock?

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[silent death]

6 minutes ago, chrisw said:

You said out in the sticks you make your own rules and you'll shoot a coyote anytime you want too... Is that not what you actually meant then? So do you not agree with killing coyotes out of season other than protecting livestock?

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If a coyote is on my property putting my animals or kids at risk it's getting shot. And what I mean bye putting them at risk is a coyote getting within 50ft of my kids or animals while they are outside which is not normal behavior for any coyote I have ever seen ...i dont care if the season is closed period ..any if you think that is poaching then I bet theres alot of poachers on here then 

Edited February 2, 2020 by silent death

[left field]

1 hour ago, Dinsdale said:

I kill squirrel year round damaging my syrup lines without question.

Squirrels chew lines? What are they after?

[chrisw]

If a coyote is on my property putting my animals or kids at risk it's getting shot. And what I mean bye putting them at risk is a coyote getting within 50ft of my kids or animals while they are outside which is not normal behavior for any coyote I have ever seen ...i dont care if the season is closed period ..any if you think that is poaching then I bet theres alot of poachers on here then 

I don't think that's poaching in the slightest. That's imminent danger and I'd agree killing said critter is the right move.

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[grampy]

3 hours ago, silent death said:

Iam a POACHER then I'll shoot any fox or coyote after my animals or live stock .and I bet alot of people on this site feel the same way they just wont say it because they dont wanna be trolled bye people like you.. not replying to you again troll elsewhere

I'm with ya man. Call me what you will. SSS........

[Four Season Whitetail's]

"HE did know that actually." And we could've gotten there if you'd have civilly answered my questions instead of childish name calling. Protecting livestock is not the argument at hand, and yes I'm fine with that. Why wouldn't I be?

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Yes in some cases it is. My neighbor lost 14 fallow deer in one weekend. Ate part of one and just killed the rest. His land bordered our’s. Me having them in my backyard after my dog without fear. Me having some of the best deer and turkey hunting along with some pretty great small game all but wiped out! Remember they do not have to kill your deer to ruin your property? Just the mere running them non stop will take care of that. On top of that to have them run along pens chasing animals on the inside running them against the fences trying to put distance between them. So yes all out war was put on and will continue as needed to protect livestock and my property for it to continue to supply the needs I bought it for. I have no problem being called a poacher or any other words some might want to come up with. Until someone pays my taxes or replaces anything I may lose because of their useless Vermin they will continue to be destroyed as needed. Also will have no problem accepting anything law wise that might arise from my actions. But will say it again.... Most will never see a true Vermin problem. If you can sit in your yard and listen to packs talk to each other in 6 different directions and see more dogs than any other form of wildlife on your property you may have a problem starting, If not already.


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[nyslowhand]

Another good example of this debate about killing off predators vs living along side them is the wolves in the western states. Okay, maybe on a 10x level. Deemed a nuisance, killed off to almost extinction, brought back by Environmentalist, same problems arise again, killing them off ... endless cycle. Assuming it depends on which side of the debate you take your stance as to how you view coyotes in literally your own backyard.

Edited February 3, 2020 by nyslowhand

[Five Seasons]

dude Nat Geo? They're one of the biggest promulgators of anti-hunting BS out there... 

[Five Seasons]

On 2/2/2020 at 8:43 AM, airedale said:

I have been around long enough to have seen this whole Coyote story evolve, from what was a Chupacabra like myth to what we have today. When I was a kid they were called Coydogs and they were as rare as Hen's teeth, many believed they did not exist and even the DEC did not acknowledge them. As their population grew they started getting shot by hunters  and caught in traps proving their existence.

Back in the late seventies I worked for a good friend of mine in his sporting goods store "Johns' Sporting Goods" in Rome NY. John was also one of the biggest raw fur buyers in NY and we had trappers and hunters from all over NY and neighboring states come in to sell their catches. The fur trade was a great barometer to gauge the Coyote's population growth from just a few pelts coming in to the hundreds in later years as populations exploded.

Anyone who does not believe their impact has not been significant has their heads up their ass. As someone who has always been an enthusiastic small game hunter I have seen a big drop in several species populations. Cottontail Rabbits have just about vanished from my neck of the woods, it is a rare event to see one these days. When I was a kid they were all over the place, you could not drive down a country road a mile without seeing one dead from being run over by a vehicle. Same with Woodchucks, when I was a young fellow there with so many, one could not look over a large hayfield and not see plenty of Woodchucks standing on the hind legs looking for danger. The same fields today you will not see even one. Some will say farming practices are the cause of these declines and while I agree that is part of the blame it is not all of it. I attended a NY state Houndsman banquet and we had a state biologist expert in the Eastern Coyote as a guest speaker. He and his team examined the contents of Coyote's stomachs and during the warm months almost every single one contained woodchucks and his exact words were "if anyone has wondered where all the woodchucks have disappeared to there you have it". Master Wolfer Gary Strader feels that Rabbits are also one of their favorite foods. He says if you want to hunt or trap Coyotes find a good Rabbit population and you will find Coyotes.

Being opportunists Coyotes will eat just about anything they can catch or find, Turkeys, Grouse, Pheasant and their eggs are on the menu all of these gamebirds populations are declining recently. They will kill Foxes, Possums and Coons which may be taken on occasion but I have a hard time believing they kill Fox or Coon with any regularity. Having hunted both Fox and Coon for over fifty years with some pretty fair dogs it is a rare thing to catch a Coon on the ground and if you do catch a big one they can hold their own in a fight. Catching Fox outside their den pretty hard to do in my opinion, I think they just move out of the territory when they are Coyotes around. And of course it is no secret that new born fawns and deer taken during the winter are very common.

They will also eat cats and small dogs if they can get the opportunity to grab one. I know of several Hare hunter whose Beagles just vanished while running a Hare and like Gary Strader points out where the are Rabbits you will find Coyotes and it is probable those Beagle got picked off.

I don't think anything should be completely exterminated but animals like Wolves and Coyotes belong in wild places and let them thrive there, once they get to have large populations around people the problems start showing up and that is when the gloves come off.

Al

 

 

 

you dont attribute any of that loss to habitat loss? I know just about all the untitled/farmed fields near me are now either housing developments or corn fields.