Deer jumping the string, what to do?

[TheFieldArcher]

These are 15 -18 yard shots with a Mission Menace.

Opening day, bow was at 43 pounds and no silencers, two deer jump the string.

The bow is taken to a local archery shop, they recommend limb silencers, string silencers, new Whisker Biscuit and new Carbon Express arrows with Blazer vanes are purchased, the bow was cranked up to 49 pounds and tuned. The bow also has a stabilizer.

We go out for the second time, same thing happens! Under 20 yard shots! Crazy, see the footage! What to do?

[132 eight pointer]

That is the best footage I have ever watched of a deer ducking an arrow.Unfortunately I don't have any advice.I assume all fasteners are tight.Try a different release ? Go back to the bow shop and get more advice .

[JimmyDaSavage]

Sorry as I have no advice but that is some really awesome footage!

[WNYBuckHunter]

Sorry, but those kids bows dont shoot very fast to begin with. That is basically a very extremely adjustable starter bow meant for getting a kid into archery, not really for hunting with. I have seen people put up numbers of @ 200 or less fps with the Menace with a 250gr arrow. Not a combo I would choose for deer hunting. Just my opinion though.

[fasteddie]

I think WNYBuckHunter nailed it . Some recurves are faster than the Menace . Just an opinion .

[Santamour123]

I would start to hold bottom of the heart . If the dont duck they are dead. And if the do you will still hit them. Especialy with a slower bow like that. Hold very low!!!

[Four Season Whitetail's]

She just needs to move her aiming point down to the belly line.She drops the point of impact 4in lower and they would drop right into her arrow!!

[TheFieldArcher]

Sorry, but those kids bows dont shoot very fast to begin with. That is basically a very extremely adjustable starter bow meant for getting a kid into archery, not really for hunting with. I have seen people put up numbers of @ 200 or less fps with the Menace with a 250gr arrow. Not a combo I would choose for deer hunting. Just my opinion though.

I have to agree with you, I am just trying to help her get her first deer, she is a friend of a friend and they said she loves hunting but has nobody to take her, she is a great kid, senior in college and also works to pay for her education, she is a hard worker that shoots very well, she was right on with her shots, it's a shame that the guy at the archery shop sold her on that for hunting.

[pawle76]

Aim Lower

[skyhunter]

While there are bows that will get an arrow to it's target faster than others, contrary to what marketers of "silencing" products want you to believe, there is no such thing as a quiet bow.

You have to judge the likelyhood of a deer reacting to the sound of the bow going off. Even the most modern bows throw out a very high decible level when they release their stored energy so forget about believing in quiet bows; there aren't any. Like others have said aim lower at alert animals. I do the same with a very fast bow. Just when and how much an animal will drop down can never be known and that is what makes this game very difficult and rewarding.

good luck!

Edited October 9, 2011 by skyhunter

[TheFieldArcher]

While there are bows that will get an arrow to it's target faster than others, contrary to what marketers of "silencing" products want you to believe, there is no such thing as a quiet bow.

You have to judge the likelyhood of a deer reacting to the sound of the bow going off. Even the most modern bows throw out a very high decible level when they release their stored energy so forget about believing in quiet bows; there aren't any. Like others have said aim lower at alert animals. I do the same with a very fast bow. Just when and how much an animal will drop down can never be known and that is what makes this game very difficult and rewarding.

good luck!

Good stuff guys, thank you!

[burmjohn]

That footage is amazing.

[TheFieldArcher]

That footage is amazing.

Thanks, I hope I get new footage of her with her 1st deer next time!

[Geno C]

i would say aim lower, hold alittle lower on the deer to try and compensate but to be honest those bows are VERY slow... At 40 some odd lbs that arrow is not moving very quick. To be honest the bow doesnt sound near as loud as i thought it would, its not that loud at all. But a combination of the release and the bow shooting slow has alot to do with it.

[sits in trees]

thats why i love it when some nitwit will tell some kid or older guy, AAHHH you dont need a crossbow kid you can hunt with a 35 lb bow in NY? low poundage bows are like swimming with cement blocks tied to yer feet.

[Doc]

I would be very careful about counting on speed to solve the string-jumping thing. Unless you have a bow that is approaching 1126 fps (the speed of sound), I think you will find that the difference in bow speeds only allows you to make a wound instead of a clean miss.

I think that concentrating on such things as bow noise will help. No you won't eliminate all the noise, but you may be able to shut down the harshness of the sound. I always think about the old highschool prank of sneaking up behind someone in the library that is engrossed in what they are read and slamming a big old dictionary on the floor. If they have a pulse at all, they will move faster than most of those deer. If I slammed a comic book on the floor they wouldn't move at all. Probably not the best analogy in the world but maybe it gets the point across that I am trying to make.

Also, the point of aim might help a bit too. A bit lower is usually better.

But the big thing is that this is something that can go along with bow-hunting. I have seen similar videos with super fast bows, so it simply is an unavoidable and unfortunate weakness of archery hunting, and sooner or later, regardless of what kind of super-bow that you shoot, it's going to happen to everybody that is in the sport long enough.

You want to avoid deer "out-reflexing" your projectile, get a shotgun. There are no other sure-fire cures for the problem.

[SteveB]

I hunt and kill deer with a recurve at about 180 fps. It's not the bow.

Hard to tell from the video how wired those deer were. By their reaction I would bet they where on high alert eventhough feeding. A 300 fps bow would have the same result if so.

Learning when to shoot is as important as how to shoot - and can take far longer to learn - it did for me.

[fasteddie]

When I first started bow hunting (around 1994) , I had read a bit about deer jumping the string . I aimed low and shot right under the deer at 30 yards . He just kept walking .Apparently he didn't read the articles and know that he was supposed to drop down !

[TheFieldArcher]

I would be very careful about counting on speed to solve the string-jumping thing. Unless you have a bow that is approaching 1126 fps (the speed of sound), I think you will find that the difference in bow speeds only allows you to make a wound instead of a clean miss.

I think that concentrating on such things as bow noise will help. No you won't eliminate all the noise, but you may be able to shut down the harshness of the sound. I always think about the old highschool prank of sneaking up behind someone in the library that is engrossed in what they are read and slamming a big old dictionary on the floor. If they have a pulse at all, they will move faster than most of those deer. If I slammed a comic book on the floor they wouldn't move at all. Probably not the best analogy in the world but maybe it gets the point across that I am trying to make.

Also, the point of aim might help a bit too. A bit lower is usually better.

But the big thing is that this is something that can go along with bow-hunting. I have seen similar videos with super fast bows, so it simply is an unavoidable and unfortunate weakness of archery hunting, and sooner or later, regardless of what kind of super-bow that you shoot, it's going to happen to everybody that is in the sport long enough.

You want to avoid deer "out-reflexing" your projectile, get a shotgun. There are no other sure-fire cures for the problem.

On opening day when she missed the two deer, another doe came in, her confidence was shot! She said "you shoot it" I had my bow and I aimed where I wanted to hit it and that is where the arrow entered. The issue is her Mission Menace bow, I have no confidence in it and I think she needs to get a real bow, I am writing this a day after I posted this topic and she almost put $200.00 into silencers, a rest and arrows trying to fix the problem only to have the same results as seen in the video. Will a string suppressor do the trick??? I don't know but that would put her total to around $240.00 and there is no guarantee that will work. Time for a real bow. Thanks for the help guys, appreciate your ideas and time.

Sam

[Doewhacker]

Speed will not make a bit of difference for her. We are talking 15 yards, 45 feet, meaning if the arrow is moving at 200 fps its there in .255 of a second, now go out and shoot at 300 fps and it gets there in .150 of a second making a difference of .105 of a second.

Here is what I recomend, stop trying to shoot deer over a NJ bait pile, they are obviously on alert from pressure and scent. Move to a new spot free of said pressure and she will be fine. My wife shoots a Parker Sidekick that is "slow" at 45 pounds and had zero problems killing a deer a couple of years ago. It ain't the bow.

[skyhunter]

One of the best performers in the noise catagory is the Matthews Z7 which comes in at 83.1 decibles. That is very lound. Kinda like the volume you have to turn your TV set up to to hear it when everybody in the room is talking and won't shut up. There are no quiet compound bows; that high level of stored energy has to go somewhere. Try setting up your digital camera next to you and run it in video mode and then take a few shots. Now play it back on your computer and tell me just how quiet that loud noise of the bow going off really is.

The guy that first called it string jumping sure got it all wrong; should have called it string droping.

Yes, a faster bow can close the gap between arrow and animal reaction, but you need to aquire targets that are more relaxed and not reacting like African game at a water hole. Good luck!

[WNYBuckHunter]

What weight arrow is she shooting? My guess is its heavier than the 250gr that was able to achieve just under 200fps. We are probably talking about a bow that is well below 200fps, and its not the draw weight thats making it slow. Take a look at the Hoyt Ruckus, that bow with a max weight of 50lbs IBO's at 285fps, so with a hunting configuration, its gonna be in the 240 to 250fps range. Yes, I think she needs to aim low, but if you watch those videos, if she had aimed 4 inches lower, when the deer dropped she would have been lucky to spine it. The Mission Menace is pretty much comparable to my daughter's Diamond Nuclear Ice (though the NI is shorter A to A), and I would never suggest trying to shoot a deer with that thing.

BTW, the video is pretty cool.

[arrow nocker]

cool vidieo!!

Might sound crazy but if it was my son having this problem i would take off all the silencers and have him shoot 4 to 6 inches low.Anticipating that the deer would jump the string.

[G-Man]

I saw an old hunting video where they say not to try to shoot between 15-22 yards as deer can and will jump the string but seem less bothered by noise from 22 yards out and from 15 yrds in its almost impossible for the deer to move out of the way.. Best advice is aim at lower 1/3 of deer's vitals esp if hunting spooky deer if the deer drops you'll hit dead center, if it doesn't you still get a heart shot! the bow she has may be slow but it will kill deer.

[TheFieldArcher]

What weight arrow is she shooting? My guess is its heavier than the 250gr that was able to achieve just under 200fps. We are probably talking about a bow that is well below 200fps, and its not the draw weight thats making it slow. Take a look at the Hoyt Ruckus, that bow with a max weight of 50lbs IBO's at 285fps, so with a hunting configuration, its gonna be in the 240 to 250fps range. Yes, I think she needs to aim low, but if you watch those videos, if she had aimed 4 inches lower, when the deer dropped she would have been lucky to spine it. The Mission Menace is pretty much comparable to my daughter's Diamond Nuclear Ice (though the NI is shorter A to A), and I would never suggest trying to shoot a deer with that thing.

BTW, the video is pretty cool.

She is shooting 49 pounds. She also got new Carbon Express arrows before we went out the second time, not sure of the weight of them but I would imagine the guy at the archery shop would have sold her the correct arrows knowing why she was there.