3 serious issues

[Einsamer Krieger]

Keep your eyes and ears open to digest all the information out there.   Me, I listen to all and then make my decision.

[Rattler]

Authoritarian abuse.  Arrested and charged with a criminal offense.

Most never got out of their cars and when they did they stayed far apart!!

During the protest, drivers drove up, parked their cars and honked in front of the Statehouse and Murphy’s office. Some held signs, and about a dozen stood outside the building demanding the governor reopen the state, according to New Jersey 101.5.

 

https://www.westernjournal.com/nj-woman-flexing-right-protest-stay-home-order-charged-criminal-violation/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=westernjournalism&utm_content=2020-04-21&utm_campaign=manualpost&fbclid=IwAR1KB_ztSRxO0b0__jwt_LmxIAv1rSAvHiNsG5Unr6WF0GlWlahVDH6QTyE

Edited April 21, 2020 by Rattler

[Rattler]

[Rattler]

Notice how often doctors and experts say they don't know what is going on here.

Here is a report for divers from the Innsbruck University in Austria. This report talks about scuba diving after YOU HAVE HAD Covid 19

READ BELOW: (Photo sourced from PIXABAY)

It is now undisputed that Covid-19 should be taken seriously as a serious illness. How the late effects will have an impact will only become clear step by step. Recovered patients in diving are also at particular risk. The massive changes in the lungs can significantly increase the risk of accidents, said the senior physician of the Innsbruck University Clinic, Frank Hartig.

"" This is shocking, we do not understand what is happening here. "
Frank Hartig, senior physician at the Innsbruck University Clinic

He heads the emergency department in the hospital and is the responsible crisis coordinator for Covid 19 patients. In the clinic, doctors have treated dozens of coronavirus sufferers in recent weeks, from symptom-free spreaders to intensive care patients on the heart-lung machine. Among them were six active divers, all of whom did not have to be treated in hospital, but cured themselves in home quarantines. All of them were not severe cases, their illnesses were five to six weeks ago and they are considered to have recovered. But they can no longer dive. "The damage to the lungs is irreversible," said Hartig in an interview with the APA. And the,

"This is shocking, we don't understand what's going on here. They are probably lifelong patients, so it doesn't matter whether they dive again or not," said the doctor. The bad news was made clear by lung CTs. "They didn't get any better at all in imaging," said Hartig. "As an emergency doctor with 20 years of experience, you swallow when you see something like this in a 40-year-old patient."

In the control after several weeks, two patients showed significant oxygen deficiency when under stress as a typical sign of persistent lung shunt. In two, the bronchi were still very excitable when under stress, as in asthmatics. Four out of the six divers still showed impressive lung changes on the control CT. "I even called on the X-ray to see if they had swapped the pictures because a healthy patient was sitting in front of us," said Hartig. "When they saw their own pictures, it was shocking for them," said the doctor. "You have to check regularly with such lung damage."

To what extent long-term effects remain on the lungs is unclear according to the doctor and is currently speculative. "We don't know how much of the changes will last," said the doctor. When looking at the findings, however, it is difficult "to believe in complete healing". He, therefore, published an interim report in the diving magazine "Wetnote" to warn active divers. "After a Covid infection, even if you have only mild symptoms, you should definitely have a dive doctor examine you thoroughly, even if you still have an upright medical examination," said Hartig.

Under no circumstances should former patients practice their sport in the summer without clarification. There is already a debate among doctors about artificial ventilation. More and more medical professionals are observing that the condition of Covid 19 patients deteriorates rapidly as soon as they are inserted into the trachea and connected to a counselling device. Hospitals in the USA have therefore been trying to delay ventilation for as long as possible. The first warnings came from Italy, where the majority of the ventilated patients died.

"If you give them two litres of oxygen, the oxygen saturation will be a little better, but a few hours later, many of them will be in the intensive care unit."
Frank Hartig, senior physician at the Innsbruck University Clinic

Such observations are also made in the Innsbruck clinic. Patients come to the ambulance with low oxygen saturation, except for increased respiratory rate, they are fine according to the circumstances, although according to the textbook they should be intubated immediately in the case of such poor blood gases, Hartig reported. "If you give them two liters of oxygen, the oxygen saturation will get a little better, but a few hours later, many of them are in the intensive care unit with intubation and severe lung failure," said the doctor. Many doctors feel that oxygen triggers cascades.

"It is worrying what we experience and what we do in the intensive care unit and it is clear how little we know," said Hartig. "We are talking to people and feel like they are over the mountain and two hours later they are dying," said the emergency doctor. In the case of seriously ill people, it is sometimes shown that oxygen can also be counterproductive. Divers have a higher level of oxygen when diving, for example, if they practice sport with Nitrox, a mixture of nitrogen with oxygen. This could be dangerous if "the lung tissue is still sensitive," warned Hartig. "For this summer we are dependent on expert opinions," he emphasized that studies will only be available next year.

[knehrke]

And this is supposed to demonstrate what? That you can't trust experts? Particularly if their conclusions differ from your own deeply-seated beliefs? 

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."

Bertrand Russell

[Curmudgeon]

Wow Rattler. No wonder I'm finding better things to do than spending time here. Have you nothing better to do?

It's another winter day. I'll go do some inside work.

[steve863]

11 minutes ago, Curmudgeon said:

Wow Rattler. No wonder I'm finding better things to do than spending time here. Have you nothing better to do?

It's another winter day. I'll go do some inside work.

 

Yeah, does anyone have an old barn or something that they can set on fire in the Catskills?  Rattler claims to be a fireman, so maybe he'll be called to put it out and we won't have to listen to him here.   

 

 

[Rattler]

Nobody forces any of you to read these posts, and if you comment without addressing the message, who has nothing better to do? 

[Rattler]

45 minutes ago, knehrke said:

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."

Bertrand Russell

I concur.  However you guys are the one's who are so certain of yourselves.  I'm the who who is doubting the narrative.

[Rattler]

13 minutes ago, steve863 said:

Yeah, does anyone have an old barn or something that they can set on fire in the Catskills?  Rattler claims to be a fireman, so maybe he'll be called to put it out and we won't have to listen to him here.   

If it's worth the fine you will get from the EPA for not removing all hazardous pollutants and getting all the required permits first, knock yourself out.

[Rattler]

This thread addresses 3 serious issues with the current state of affairs in the world today.  Everything I have posted addresses on of these issues.  I'm curious why some people are adamant about mocking the message.  How are you triggered by these examples of threats to the civilian population?  Unless your acting out of personal animosity for some presumed offense I have brought upon you, I can only conclude you support these threats.

[Five Seasons]

40 minutes ago, Curmudgeon said:

Wow Rattler. No wonder I'm finding better things to do than spending time here. Have you nothing better to do?

It's another winter day. I'll go do some inside work.

he's filling the papist void

[Rattler]

Ankle biters.  Ankle biters everywhere.

That's why I wear leather boots with steel toes.  

[Five Seasons]

wear what you want, run what ya brung.

I just don't think anyone cares. There's a lot of bigger issues in the world right now and the blame game from either side is nauseating. 

[Elmo]

Yes but let's say in a hypothetical world, all this blogging and research you're doing actually does succeed and convince the 1/2 dozen of us to believe you.  What difference does that make?  Maybe you should be standing in front of Albany with a sign instead making a real impact.

[GreeneHunter]

[Merlot]

Interesting how this virus thing has all but shut down fossil fuel use world wide, commerce shut down world wide, etc. USA isn't playing ball with climate change, but now with this virus thing, Soros and his buds have found a way to strangle the USA and the world with this socialism bull crap. We have alot to be concerned about. Hopefully our present leadership willcrush this stuff before it has a chance to take hold.

Rattler has it right.

 

[Rattler]

Elmo, if you think that would make a real impact, you're not as smart as I gave you credit for.

 

I still don't understand why some guys feel they need to shut this down.

Not interested?  Don't read it.   

Nobody cares?  Why care?     

Bigger issues right now?   (Seriously??)  Post about them. 

Not convinced?   Freedom of choice.

I just don't understand why one person's point of view seems to trigger such negativity.  Nobody forces anyone to read these posts.  But if it gives one a feeling of moral superiority or anxiety relief, maybe they need to.

    

Edited April 22, 2020 by Rattler

[Elmo]

The sarcasm eludes you.

[GreeneHunter]

Trolling Trolling , over the bounding main …. ? Should probably be moved to the Politics Section ?

[cachemoney]

1 hour ago, Rattler said:

Elmo, if you think that would make a real impact, you're not as smart as I gave you credit for.

 

I still don't understand why some guys feel they need to shut this down.

Not interested?  Don't read it.   

Nobody cares?  Why care?     

Bigger issues right now?   (Seriously??)  Post about them. 

Not convinced?   Freedom of choice.

I just don't understand why one person's point of view seems to trigger such negativity.  Nobody forces anyone to read these posts.  But if it gives one a feeling of moral superiority or anxiety relief, maybe they need to.

    

Aren't you the guy who had a 100 page thread moved because it had criticism of Trump ?

Pot...meet kettle. 

[Rattler]

14 minutes ago, cachemoney said:

Aren't you the guy who had a 100 page thread moved because it had criticism of Trump ?

Pot...meet kettle. 

Care to explain how I did that?  It wasn't me who turned it into a political slug fest.  I'm the one who refused to discuss politics in that thread.   Care to post an intelligent reply to any of the 3 serious issues being discussed here that do not involve politics?

Any of these 3 issues could have politicians screw them up, but all 3 are issues that exist because of the virus and our response to it.  See if you can contribute to the debate from that perspective and leave politics out of it.

 

[knehrke]

6 hours ago, Rattler said:

I concur.  However you guys are the one's who are so certain of yourselves.  I'm the who who is doubting the narrative.

Okay, I am officially amused. You completely failed to understand the quote, as your reply clearly demonstrates. The doubt that Bertrand Russel was referring to is SELF-DOUBT, a characteristic that fanatics and demagogues lack equally. Always doubting other folks when their "narrative" doesn't fit yours doesn't make you wise. On the contrary, being so embedded in your perspective compromises your message - folks discount your opinion because it is narrow.

Oh, and FYI, I agree 100% with your Venn diagram that led off this diatribe. I am concerned about each of those things equally and am trying to figure out a measured response moving forward that addresses each concern, but not at the expense of the others. I think that this describes many of us on here.

[Rattler]

1 hour ago, knehrke said:

Okay, I am officially amused. You completely failed to understand the quote, as your reply clearly demonstrates. The doubt that Bertrand Russel was referring to is SELF-DOUBT, a characteristic that fanatics and demagogues lack equally. Always doubting other folks when their "narrative" doesn't fit yours doesn't make you wise. On the contrary, being so embedded in your perspective compromises your message - folks discount your opinion because it is narrow.

Oh, and FYI, I agree 100% with your Venn diagram that led off this diatribe. I am concerned about each of those things equally and am trying to figure out a measured response moving forward that addresses each concern, but not at the expense of the others. I think that this describes many of us on here.

Seems there is a lack of self doubt on all sides, that's my point.

How does one conclude a nationwide lock down is not at the expense of others, especially those who are losing their livelihood and everything they worked all their lives for?  Not to mention the devastating expense to others if the future holds a national depression.  I'm old enough to have parents who survived the last one in the 1930's.  The stories they told were enough to make me certain nobody ever wants to go through that again.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Rattler

[knehrke]

Your logic is flawed, my friend. One does not conclude a nationwide lock down is not at the expense of others. Of course it is. My point is that we need to consider how to reopen, while balancing needs, MOVING FORWARD, as we try to get our feet under us again. We sacrificed two of your focus areas for the sake of the third. It's time to rebalance the equation. Emphasis on balance.