fatal shooting in st lawrence county last evening.

[steve863]

LOL on the video!!! Don't forget we have Bubba the psych nurse practitioner on the forum here. He may be able to help with your hunting fears. He'll whiz a few rounds by your head with his pistol so you can get over your fear of gunshots. LOL And to be totally safe Bubba makes all his patients wear BO while in his office.

[NFA-ADK]

I guese getting shot at two years in a row has cause me to become a safety advocate even more than I was before. And that fact leads me to believe hunting is risky... And I thought hunting up North was SAFER...

None of these thing mentioned will ever stop me from hunting, as long as I am able, I will hunt as long as I live...

It just pisses me off when some one dies in NYS while hunting and NYS does not include him in our safety statistics just to make us tie for 1st with safety in other states. It is missleading the public that our state is the safest when the facts show otherwise...

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Well to steal a concept from our Communist-in-Cheif....I would hunt in the 57th state on that list...lol.

[growalot]

NFA-ADK.

In the legal sense INTENT is required for it to be murder. I am sur eif the DA thought they could have gotten more they would have.

Sorry CCHC...that could not be farther from reality...Of course you'll need my reason......Let me start by saying I have absolutely nothing to do with this man...can't pick family..

Father...married a... well tramp ....she was flaunting an affair...he whom never hunted a day in his life, bought a shot gun...step sisters called me in on this...I could not find weapon...he gathered the kids in great detail told of murder plan I was there...I get a call from wife psychologist...then she(wife) and I go to sheriffs...I give entire murder plot ...get another PD captain from town we grew up in to corroborate what a sadistic SOB he is...they did nothing...Yet after fact I find the school victim drove bus for ...had a restraining order against him for stalking bus...Well New Years Eve ..my phone rings...he was shooting up the restaurant she waitressed at...after blowing off the guys shoulder...he broke through a window...reloaded and as the guy was crawling through the kitchen from the bar area...cut him into with a 12 ga double barrel....9yrs thats all he got manslaughter and 9yrs ...should have been put down

So no the DA doesn't always do the right thing

[bubba]

geesh sorry I brought it up. I do not do gun therapy. Besides you can't afford me.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Sorry CCHC...that could not be farther from reality...Of course you'll need my reason......Let me start by saying I have absolutely nothing to do with this man...can't pick family..

Father...married a... well tramp ....she was flaunting an affair...he whom never hunted a day in his life, bought a shot gun...step sisters called me in on this...I could not find weapon...he gathered the kids in great detail told of murder plan I was there...I get a call from wife psychologist...then she(wife) and I go to sheriffs...I give entire murder plot ...get another PD captain from town we grew up in to corroborate what a sadistic SOB he is...they did nothing...Yet after fact I find the school victim drove bus for ...had a restraining order against him for stalking bus...Well New Years Eve ..my phone rings...he was shooting up the restaurant she waitressed at...after blowing off the guys shoulder...he broke through a window...reloaded and as the guy was crawling through the kitchen from the bar area...cut him into with a 12 ga double barrel....9yrs thats all he got manslaughter and 9yrs ...should have been put down

So no the DA doesn't always do the right thing

I know that is not the case the OP was about but there must have been some circumstances that kept it from going forward as a murder case in the one you are talking about.

[growalot]

I know that is not the case the OP was about but there must have been some circumstances that kept it from going forward as a murder case in the one you are talking about.

Ohh you bet there was..he never even had a trial....His lawyer got wind of the fact I'd gone to the sheriffs with a detailed murder plot right down to the weapon...and where I thought he was hiding it...How he had planned on getting out of it with a staged suicide attempt...the whole nine yards...

Well what an embarrassment that would have been...Not to mention the night it happened...as a detective was taking me in to question me ...the sheriff was walking down the hall and I quote "He got what he deserved he was a womanizing bastard"...I turned and yelled that the sheriff could have stopped this and the guys blood was on his hands...it took two officers to hold him ...he charged me in the hall as the detective pushed me into the interrogation room ...Then came in to ask what that was all about...Ohh and you'll love this...a hands down murderer and they made him a trustee and allowed him out to do yard work....his lawyer and DA made deals...hush hush

ppl in general have no idea what really goes down in the court /judicial system

[adirondackbushwhack]

Name one sport where getting shot or killed by another person is a reality...

You are more likely to get shot minding your own buisness doing anything in the city than you are getting shot while hunting.

[adirondackbushwhack]

IF you solo moutian climb your risk of death is high. And the risk is know by that person, this is why it is safer to go with a partner while doing this activity. Same with winter hiking, it's safer with a buddy. Without your risk is much higher and usually known by the participant.

If you ride a bike or walk or get into a accident with a truck and die it does not matter if you were participating in a sport that is called an accident with a vehecle and most of those types of accidents that do involve a pedestrian can be fatal when higher speeds are involved. It does not matter what you were doing at the time, you could be selling lemonaid.

If you like to sky dive which is fun, you have a high risk of death.

IF you wake up in the morning you have a chance of dying that day, life is risky, yet to say hunting is safe... May be the shots fired over my head last year have something to do with it... O wait that should never happen in NY. Never mind, Hunting is the safest thing you can do, no risk involved go for it...

EXCEPT FOR THIS ONE GUY, O wait he was not the only one in NY killed last year. SOME ONE Please get some stats up here...j/k

My point is that hunting has some high risk in it. And guese what other sports that have high risk of death are known by the participants, jumping out of a plane is one of them... DO you think that jumping out of a plan is safer than hunting? Sure, come to the southern zone with NO BO and tell me it is safe, sure it is, no risk involved so why the need and arguments for BO then? Because it is not safe by any means, besides getting shot, lost, hurt or attacted,any number of things can happen and that is what make hunting so much fun... 10 weeks till opening of bow!!!! lets go hunting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When I hunt the southern zone I wear camo and so does most of the people I know. My house is on a single lane dirt road in the middle of the woods. Newbie hunters unfamiliar with the area won't know the road is there until they nearly step on it. None of the kids or people who live in the area wear blaze orange while outside either in the road or in the woods. Kids play in the woods here during hunting season and don't wear blaze. The area is hunted heavily and yet everyone feels safe.

Every year in this area people die in thier homes from one thing or another and yet no one gets killed while hunting. Sure it will happen sooner or later its just the law of probabilities but it's clearly much safer hunting than it is in ones own home.

[NFA-ADK]

I am not getting into another BO argument or the getting shot in the city vs hunting.

PS: I do not live in the city and as a matter of fact I HATE the city!!!

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I am not getting into another BO argument or the getting shot in the city vs hunting.

PS: I do not live in the city and as a matter of fact I HATE the city!!!

TO us upstate hicks everything south of Newburg is "The city"..lol

[adirondackbushwhack]

First of all, let me point out that no one has ever said that blaze orange makes you bullet-proof. And no one is saying that no one wearing blaze orange will ever get shot. That is like saying that if you wear a seat belt you will never be involved in an accident. Is that true? ..... Of course not. Is it true that texting laws and cellphone laws are no good because people get into accidents that are not using cellphones? ..... Of course not. Do all these things save lives? ..... You bet!

A word about stats .... If somebody shows you data that 94% of the cases of incidents where other hunters were mistaken for game involved individuals that were not wearing B/O, and you still do not appreciate the effectiveness and significance of B/O as a safety feature, then I guess carrying the conversation any further is pointless. Oh, and by the way, this same study found that 81% of deer hunters in NYS routinely use blaze orange, so that 94% is coming from only 19% of the hunters. If from that data you cannot deduct that B/O saves lives, then again further discussion is useless. These numbers are not theoretical they are collected data. So the issue of whether B/O saves lives is just plain not really in question.

Does the use of blaze orange negate the need to follow other safety rules or abide by hunting laws? ..... I don't recall anybody ever saying that or even suggesting that, so I don't understand why anybody would stir that into a B/O discussion. Naturally that stuff is important. Who would ever suggest that its not? But that is not an "either/or" proposition.

How about the stat where these 19% of the hunters not wearing B/O account for twice as many "in the line of fire" shootings. That tells me that there are a bunch of cases where that flash of blaze orange is causing a lot of people to hold back on pulling the trigger. Yes, I would say that B/O is saving lives and I would say that the stats show that to anyone willing to open their mind and read the material.

"Out of sight" shootings and "unintentional discharge" don't seem to show much of a difference between blaze orange wearers and non blaze orange wearers. Now there's a surprise ..... lol. Did anyone expect blaze orange to work when you can't see it? Has anyone here ever said that? ....Not me.

Look, I didn't make up these stats, I just have posted the links (Many times). It's up to others who want to argue against B/O to find some reasonable credible rebutting stats. You know, if people refuse to even examine the facts when they're laid out in front of them, there's not much more I can do. But for those that are new to hunting, or on the fence or uneducated about the effectiveness of B/O, I can only offer these rebutting comments and data. After that it's up to the good common sense that God gave you to make your own choices. Recognizing that there are hunters afield that exhibit all the traits you mentioned, "Stupidity, neglect, drugs, improper handleing of a fire arm and lack of common sense", I think the proper choices definitely involve giving these guys some additional visual signal that I am not something to be shot at. To me that makes a lot of sense. And by the way, those people you mentioned don't only hunt on "Public property" or in drives or in the southern zone.

I did not see in your text what percentage of the SHOOTERS were wearing blaze orange. That is to say of those who shot someone what percentage were wearing blaze orange? I ask this becuse those studies look at blaze orange from only one perspective. Another perspective might be does blaze give the shooter a false sense of security to shoot if he does not see blaze? I know a guy who shot someone while hunting. Happened many years ago and he shot at sound. He heard movement and shot instead of identifying his target. He was wearing blaze when he shot and I've often wondered if he shot because he felt safe in doing so because he didn't see blaze; the guy he shot was wearing red/black checkers. Also see my other post about other people who live in the woods who aren't hunting and don't wear blaze. My personal way of dealing with other hunters of unknown sensablity is to avoid them whenever possible and if I can't avoid them I whistle at them and wave at them to be sure they know what I am before I proceed.

Don't mean any disrespect to any of you fine hunters who wear blaze but in our experiance the worst, senseless ,weekend only, tenderfoots who only venture into the woods for a few hours, if that, each year are ussually wearing blaze. Folks that spend a couple of weeks, TOPS, in the woods in a year are most likely to be wearing blaze and I've found that the best way to handle those tenderfoots is to whistle at them and wave and whistle until they wave back. Otherwise who knows what they might do; they are in an alien environment intent on being a hero and shooting something and who knows what tricks their minds might play on them. Im sorry to say, and again no disrespect to you fine hunters who wear it, but, If we see guys in blaze outfits we go the other direction. Its rare to see blaze even just a mile from any road anyhow so it's not hard to stay away from them.

[adirondackbushwhack]

I am not getting into another BO argument or the getting shot in the city vs hunting.

PS: I do not live in the city and as a matter of fact I HATE the city!!!

When I said the city I meant any city not NY city. If ya like stats check them and you will find that you are less likely to get shot while hunting than you are walking around ANY upstate city area.

[growalot]

ABW...living in the middle of the woods in a very high concentrated hunting area...we all wear orange...and the shooting that happened near us...both guys wearing orange....but a buck running top speed ran between them...no looking just swinging and blasting like they where shooting skeet...live buck..dead hunter...what they were wearing in yours and my case has no bearing ...got to shot something at all costs IMO...it has to do with bad hunting...brainless greed

[Doc]

I did not see in your text what percentage of the SHOOTERS were wearing blaze orange. That is to say of those who shot someone what percentage were wearing blaze orange? I ask this becuse those studies look at blaze orange from only one perspective. Another perspective might be does blaze give the shooter a false sense of security to shoot if he does not see blaze? I know a guy who shot someone while hunting. Happened many years ago and he shot at sound. He heard movement and shot instead of identifying his target. He was wearing blaze when he shot and I've often wondered if he shot because he felt safe in doing so because he didn't see blaze; the guy he shot was wearing red/black checkers. Also see my other post about other people who live in the woods who aren't hunting and don't wear blaze. My personal way of dealing with other hunters of unknown sensablity is to avoid them whenever possible and if I can't avoid them I whistle at them and wave at them to be sure they know what I am before I proceed.

Don't mean any disrespect to any of you fine hunters who wear blaze but in our experiance the worst, senseless ,weekend only, tenderfoots who only venture into the woods for a few hours, if that, each year are ussually wearing blaze. Folks that spend a couple of weeks, TOPS, in the woods in a year are most likely to be wearing blaze and I've found that the best way to handle those tenderfoots is to whistle at them and wave and whistle until they wave back. Otherwise who knows what they might do; they are in an alien environment intent on being a hero and shooting something and who knows what tricks their minds might play on them. Im sorry to say, and again no disrespect to you fine hunters who wear it, but, If we see guys in blaze outfits we go the other direction. Its rare to see blaze even just a mile from any road anyhow so it's not hard to stay away from them.

Let me provide the article address once again, and you can form your own opinions. http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00044112.htm This will probably make an even dozen times that I have given the address. What is that old saying about leading a horse to water ..... lol. Look, I gave you all the pertainant data in that reply that you quoted, that any one needs to know to understand that B/O saves lives. You choose to ignore it, that's up to you.

However, you did finally explain some of the opposition to B/O. I hadn't realized that it was some kind of macho thing, and that some relate hunting safety measures to defining the "real hunters" from the tenderfeet.....Ha-ha. I suspected that it was related to that kind of odd thinking, but I didn't want offend anyone by accusing them of that kind of mentality ..... lol. This is the first time I ever heard anyone try to say that hunters in B/O are more likely to shoot someone. I think that is just a plain old funny notion that probably doesn't even need a reply. Believe me, B/O isn't some kind of fashion statement for greenhorns. And nobody concocted those stats in case you ever have enough interest in the subject to actually read it. And, don't worry, there is no magic spell that comes over people when they put on blaze orange. It doesn't make them take sound shots or fling lead throughout the woods just to see what falls down. However, I will say that I worry a great deal about those in the woods who care so little for hunting safety that they refuse to take such a simple safety measure. It makes me wonder what other safety measures and practices they scoff at.

[burmjohn]

I wear blaze orange even when I fish.

But anyways, I generally wear some kind of B/O during any hunting season... Mainly because, why the hell not!?

[burmjohn]

ABW...living in the middle of the woods in a very high concentrated hunting area...we all wear orange...and the shooting that happened near us...both guys wearing orange....but a buck running top speed ran between them...no looking just swinging and blasting like they where shooting skeet...live buck..dead hunter...what they were wearing in yours and my case has no bearing ...got to shot something at all costs IMO...it has to do with bad hunting...brainless greed

Blaze orange isnt going to "fix stupid people", it will however help prevent some/most accidental / careless shooting.

[Pygmy]

I'll bet Doc wears blaze orange when he has sex...

You never can be TOO SAFE when you're "in the bush"..<< GRIN >>....

[WNYBuckHunter]

TO us upstate hicks everything south of Newburg is "The city"..lol

Middletown....please.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Middletown....please.

I was going to say Poughkeepsie but didn't want to spell it wrong...lol

[SteveB]

Albany for me.

[steve863]

I'll bet Doc wears blaze orange when he has sex...

You never can be TOO SAFE when you're "in the bush"..<< GRIN >>....

LOL! Looks like he got frisky in the woods last season with his BO on and was caught in the act by one of his game cameras that was later stolen. Full video can be seen on www.humpinolegeezers.com LOL

[Doewhacker]

I was going to say Poughkeepsie but didn't want to spell it wrong...lol

Thats cause you are fellow upstate hick and we can't spell good.

The reverse is anything north of Queens is "upstate".

Edited July 18, 2012 by Doewhacker

[WNYBuckHunter]

I'll bet Doc wears blaze orange when he has sex...

You never can be TOO SAFE when you're "in the bush"..<< GRIN >>....

Blaze Orange condoms? F that, Im too manly, I want me some Real Tree Rubbers....

[Doewhacker]

Blaze Orange condoms? F that, Im too manly, I want me some Real Tree Rubbers....

I hear camo makes everything look smaller, are you sure you want that?