Doe Permits

[Trial153]

First off there is definitely no shortage of deer in the state so 2 bucks is completely fine by me. So go back to walking around with your sky is falling sandwich board

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Who said there is shortage? The been problem is that still dispite improvements our avg age of killed bucks is still too low. So go back wallowing in your mediocrity.

[Marion]

Who said there is shortage? The been problem is that still dispite improvements our avg age of killed bucks is still too low. So go back wallowing in your mediocrity.

I'm not wallowing in anything. The average age of the deer I shoot is 3.5 I pass on younger deer. So I am not at all dealing with any mediocrity. Sure if love an older deer. But that's more a matter of where I set up. Decided to change things up on the property this season so hopefully should get an even older deer. Keep crying about the avg deer age take in the state Chief

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[ATbuckhunter]

3 hours ago, Trial153 said:

I can think of 10 guys off the top of my head that fill two buck tags almost every Year. I call Bullshit on the numbers. We have some of the highest Hunter densities per square mile in the country. No doubt about it that having two buck tags Regardless of filling both changes hunter behavior and makes them less selective.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It would make people more selective, but I only know a handful of people that can actually kill 2 bucks a year. Of those people, typically its onle 1 guy who will actually do it (he usually does it every year). I dont think itll help all that much as most of the people shooting younger deer, just want to shoot the first legal deer they see

[Jeremy K]

2 hours ago, Trial153 said:

What page is your " number " in say the 2018 deer harvest report?
What about 2019?
In fact if you look at the year over 2018 to 2019 percentage of buck take per season change you will see that state wide more bucks are being killed during the bow season then ever before and its stable during the gun season. But yea, nobody kills two bucks....bull shit. I would have more respect if guys were honest and said I like killing two buck and dont really care how it effect the herd. Change NY to a one buck state and what what happens in 4 or 5 years, especially west of I81.

New York (.gov) › dec › docsPDF
2018 New York State White-tailed Deer Harvest Summary

New York (.gov) › dec › docsPDF
DEC's 2019 Deer Harvest Summary report - New York State ...

You sound exactly like that GSJ guy that used to post here a few years ago. 

[Pygmy]

I have been hunting deer since 1965 and I am very selective....I make every effort to NOT shoot any antlered bucks younger than 1.5 years...  I also don't shoot any does younger than 1.5 years.....That makes  me a GOOD hunter, right  ???...

[Trial153]

You sound exactly like that GSJ guy that used to post here a few years ago. 

There are sections of NY that has as good habitat as some areas mid west areas, however what holds NY back is mismanagement of seasons and regulations coupled with hunters attitudes and behavior.

[land 1]

shoot what makes you happy as long as its legal, I know guys that hunt hard on public and shoot good bucks, theres guys in the adk's that track deer for miles and kill big bucks, theres guys that shoot the 1st buck they see...If you put your time and effort in theres good bucks to be found, and plenty of deer....I hear guys complain about mismanagement but some of those guys sit in the same spot every year if you dont like what your seeing for deer change it up.....

[chrisw]

I can think of 10 guys off the top of my head that fill two buck tags almost every Year. I call Bullshit on the numbers. We have some of the highest Hunter densities per square mile in the country. No doubt about it that having two buck tags Regardless of filling both changes hunter behavior and makes them less selective.
 
 
 
 
 
 

How many of the guys you know don't? I bet most.

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[chrisw]

Yea the less rules the better...why have any limit then kill whatever you want. How'd that work in the past.

Noone is advocating for an open season. We're simply asking if we can kill our 2nd buck a few weeks earlier. Same difference in the end. 2 dead bucks. I can kill like 6-8 does( I generally only shoot 2 by choice), do you see an issue with that? Noone is upping the tag numbers?
Hell, I'd even entertain the idea that your first buck can be whatever is legal, the second buck of the season needs to have 3- 4 points to a side.
I think you're failing to realize that the DEC statistics used to be... ( I haven't heard in several years now but..) The average bowhunter in NY gets 1 deer every 3 years during archery. Those guys aren't going to change anything, and the few (like some of us on here) who do kill 2 in archery, were probably going to kill 2 anyhow.

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[BizCT]

Noone is advocating for an open season. We're simply asking if we can kill our 2nd buck a few weeks earlier. Same difference in the end. 2 dead bucks. I can kill like 6-8 does( I generally only shoot 2 by choice), do you see an issue with that? Noone is upping the tag numbers?

Hell, I'd even entertain the idea that your first buck can be whatever is legal, the second buck of the season needs to have 3- 4 points to a side.

I think you're failing to realize that the DEC statistics used to be... ( I haven't heard in several years now but..) The average bowhunter in NY gets 1 deer every 3 years during archery. Those guys aren't going to change anything, and the few (like some of us on here) who do kill 2 in archery, were probably going to kill 2 anyhow.

 

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And to your point in 3S you can kill both your bucks on 10/1. There are a ton of guys who kill 2 bow bucks per year in 3S and the population is doing just fine. Unlimited doe tags as well. Because when it’s bow only there’s a ton of unsuccessful hunters as well.

 

 

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[chrisw]

 
And to your point in 3S you can kill both your bucks on 10/1. There are a ton of guys who kill 2 bow bucks per year in 3S and the population is doing just fine. Unlimited doe tags as well. Because when it’s bow only there’s a ton of unsuccessful hunters as well.
 
 
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Exactly!

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[Fletch]

You can always lobby to get the rule cchanged

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[steve863]

11 hours ago, chrisw said:

I think you're failing to realize that the DEC statistics used to be... ( I haven't heard in several years now but..) The average bowhunter in NY gets 1 deer every 3 years during archery. Those guys aren't going to change anything, and the few (like some of us on here) who do kill 2 in archery, were probably going to kill 2 anyhow.

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I am not in favor of shortening the gun season like a few are suggesting here.  Why should bow hunters get everything they want?  With the average bowhunter killing 1 deer every 3 years they are far from effective in controlling the deer population as it needs to be controlled.  The gun hunters are the backbone in controlling deer numbers and always have been no matter how loud the bowhunters want to cry about things.

 

 

[Jeremy K]

6 minutes ago, steve863 said:

 

I am not in favor of shortening the gun season like a few are suggesting here.  Why should bow hunters get everything they want?  With the average bowhunter killing 1 deer every 3 years they are far from effective in controlling the deer population as it needs to be controlled.  The gun hunters are the backbone in controlling deer numbers and always have been no matter how loud the bowhunters want to cry about 

Maybe the gun hunters could put their big boy pants on and pick up a bow ?

[chrisw]

 
I am not in favor of shortening the gun season like a few are suggesting here.  Why should bow hunters get everything they want?  With the average bowhunter killing 1 deer every 3 years they are far from effective in controlling the deer population as it needs to be controlled.  The gun hunters are the backbone in controlling deer numbers and always have been no matter how loud the bowhunters want to cry about things.
 
 

With a full inclusion for crossbow and still 2 weeks of gun season the numbers will be controlled. Look at many midwest states, they do it successfully, why can't we here? It's not about "bowhunters getting everything they want." Im against full inclusion for xbows, but I'd gladly let them take the place of 2 weeks worth of rifle season. Then run bow/xbow til Dec. 31st.
Is my opinion free of bias, no, of course not, noone's is. That's why it's an opinion, you're obviously more of a gun hunter (judging by your stance) and that's where your opinion stems from.
And why is it "bowhunters" or "gunhunters"? We're all hunters, there shouldn't be such a divide. Nothing is stopping anyone from picking up archery/xbow hunting but themselves, and if more people applied themselves they'd be just as successful with archery gear as a rifle.


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[steve863]

13 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

Maybe the gun hunters could put their big boy pants on and pick up a bow ?

 

So it looks like you think the bowhunters are the superior hunters??  

[Jeremy K]

20 minutes ago, steve863 said:

 

So it looks like you think the bowhunters are the superior hunters??  

The number of people who hunt with bow are far less then gun hunters.  You're right about gun hunters taking more deer ,its because of the number of guys in the woods with a gun . Everyone is given the equal amount of time to hunt ,its up to the individual if they wish to be in the woods or not. To answer your question and be completley honest with you ,i do think bow hunters are better in the woods then a then a gun hunter ,i cant prove it and i could be wrong but i do feel that way. Just being honest.

[Marion]

The number of people who hunt with bow are far less then gun hunters.  You're right about gun hunters taking more deer ,its because of the number of guys in the woods with a gun . Everyone is given the equal amount of time to hunt ,its up to the individual if they wish to be in the woods or not. To answer your question and be completley honest with you ,i do think bow hunters are better in the woods then a then a gun hunter ,i cant prove it and i could be wrong but i do feel that way. Just being honest.

I believe you mean in terms of woodsmanship skills correct? Not that one is somehow superior in other ways, or do you?

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[hunterdan44]

Gun hunters are the backbone of deer hunting. They’re are an effective management tool. The alternative to that would not be pretty or good for sportsmen and women.I’m not one for regulating a large state with many different deer densities based on emotion or guys that you know. My area changed over to the 3 on a side rule antler rule probably 10 years or so . That for sure has changed the hunting in my area for the better. Larger bucks making it through a couple years and a more pronounced rut. Shooting more nice bucks in my area now then ever before. (That I’ve been hunt for 43 years.) I like a long season as I love to hunt and pass on many many deer. I hunt compound , recurve , x bow and rifle . I’m not advocating the state go to antler restrictions. But I’m a believer. My two cents.


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[crappyice]

The number of people who hunt with bow are far less then gun hunters.  You're right about gun hunters taking more deer ,its because of the number of guys in the woods with a gun . Everyone is given the equal amount of time to hunt ,its up to the individual if they wish to be in the woods or not. To answer your question and be completley honest with you ,i do think bow hunters are better in the woods then a then a gun hunter ,i cant prove it and i could be wrong but i do feel that way. Just being honest.

If percentage of bow hunters & their success vs percentage of gun hunters and their success were compared I wonder if bow hunters would “win”....I would think yes as there are many more “casual” gun hunters-please don’t be offended by the term.


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[chrisw]

There is no denying archery hunting is more difficult than gun hunting. To be consistently successful with archery gear is harder than gun hunting by a "long shot." I know because I do both. I don't believe anyone is insinuating that gun hunters are terrible hunters, just that it takes more to be ultra close to deer than further away. But... In my opinion, the best all around hunters are the best bowhunters. Anyone can get within 150 yds of deer, but getting 20yds to deer is infinitely harder. And getting into position, drawing and then executing a great shot all takes more than clicking off a safety and centering crosshairs.
But this isn't a debate about who's better. It was simply the issue of every other deer tag being used in multiple seasons but the gun buck tag.


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[Jeremy K]

1 minute ago, crappyice said:

If percentage of bow hunters & their success vs percentage of gun hunters and their success were compared I wonder if bow hunters would “win”....I would think yes as there are many more “casual” gun hunters-please don’t be offended by the term.


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Cant really compare ,the pray and spray backbone of hunting get the deer running all over the place, areas become more target rich ,its great way to control the numbers which we as hunters have as our job as sportman. I'm just sick of hearing adults cry like children because the archery guys supposedly get all the breaks ,pick up a bow and hunt during archery season or stay home , it seems so easy. 

[chrisw]

Gun hunters are the backbone of deer hunting. They’re are an effective management tool. The alternative to that would not be pretty or good for sportsmen and women.I’m not one for regulating a large state with many different deer densities based on emotion or guys that you know. My area changed over to the 3 on a side rule antler rule probably 10 years or so . That for sure has changed the hunting in my area for the better. Larger bucks making it through a couple years and a more pronounced rut. Shooting more nice bucks in my area now then ever before. (That I’ve been hunt for 43 years.) I like a long season as I love to hunt and pass on many many deer. I hunt compound , recurve , x bow and rifle . I’m not advocating the state go to antler restrictions. But I’m a believer. My two cents.


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I think that mentality is a big factor in this conversation too. We all take hunting for what it is now, and any change we tend to see as negative. I agree with antler restrictions on many fronts, not all but most. The majority of people who are opposed will stay that way... Until they start killing better deer. Noone prefers shooting 4 pts to 8+ points, (I'm sure that comment will bring out someone who says it's not about the antlers, always seems too). Change is hard to swallow at first but most look back and realize that the change in fact improved their experience.

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[steve863]

I'll just let you guys continue and prove my point that you think bowhunters are somehow superior in skill and sportsmanship.  Have at it, you guys are doing a great job!  

 

 

 

 

[chrisw]

I'll just let you guys continue and prove my point that you think bowhunters are somehow superior in skill and sportsmanship.  Have at it, you guys are doing a great job!  
 
 
 
 

This is a conversation, therefore we'd like to hear your view also. In your opinion, bowhunting is no more difficult than gun hunting? Do you bowhunt?

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