Turkey numbers?

[Buckmaster7600]

This is not accurate, if they are down in one area and back up in another (or more accurately perceived up) is because a turkey flock will migrate to the area you think you are seeing more in if they have lost habitat or predation has increased to much in previous area.

Also somebody stated above if they do not do well in the first 2 years they never will, the science says different, each year is it's own year.

Another thing stated above said if the top tom gets killed they will just move to the next one down, this is also inaccurate, the fight for the pecking order happens all over again and a hen will not breed with another until that is done Mike Chamberlain covered this in another podcast not long ago.

To add another study cameras showed that crows and other predatory birds are more likely to raid a nest than coon, skunk or opossum, or more likely to do it first may be a better way to put it. So add crow to your hunting list. By the way that was shown by cameras being placed viewing nests or abandoned nests with chicken eggs placed in them.

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I’m no biologist but if hunting turkeys 100 miles away from home I’m going to guess it’s not the same flock that has migrated.


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[ApexerER]

3 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

I’m no biologist but if hunting turkeys 100 miles away from home I’m going to guess it’s not the same flock that has migrated.


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Hmm, maybe there is a study for that in the infrastructure bill....

[LET EM GROW]

 

[Sir-diealot]

6 hours ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

I’m no biologist but if hunting turkeys 100 miles away from home I’m going to guess it’s not the same flock that has migrated.


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This comment has no basis to what I said.

Edited April 15, 2021 by Sir-diealot

[Sir-diealot]

I truly wish there was more research on the turkey in the Northeast, seems like the majority of it is done in the South/Southwest.

[LET EM GROW]

The video i posted speaks volumes, and as mentioned before. the turkey population situation needs addressing. That video was made while we started discussing this here.. There should be no reason we haave to travel for turkeys.. But the squeaky wheels get the grease, and when funds and systems arent being run or working properly.. situations not getting addressed only get worse as well.. 

Idk about yall but i love turkey hunting and getting youth in the turkey woods, but todays youth most dont have the patience to endure 2 or 3 or 10 sits that are far from action packed. Much different than they used to be 10-20 years ago..  

Said it before and ill say t again, we need to consider the future in everything us sportsman and woman do.. and research is key! learn learn learn.. 

[Gobbler Chaser]

On 4/15/2021 at 8:10 AM, Sir-diealot said:

The numbers here on this side of Yates County have absolutely plummeted, between 3 "English" families and most Mennonites in the area plowing under every tree and hedgerow in site and filling in ponds the habitat has been decimated here.

Another reason you see the population going down everywhere besides habitat loss cause by many things is modern farming practices, it used to be people would not even make their first cutting of hay until around or after the Fourth of July, now you see them doing it in late may or mid June which means the nests are getting destroyed and poults are getting sucked into the machinery or simply run over or chopped up by the farming implements. The equipment is also much faster, a turkey can run 30MPH on the flat but you add all these different kinds of vegetation in their way and with the increased speed of the tractors and also how low things get cut now as compared to how it used to be and they do not stand a chance.

Another thing I would like to see is more people adding food plots for turkey, you see people out the wazoo planting for deer but not many specifically for turkey. People say "Oh I am planting clover" but they are not planting the broad leave clovers that not only help the turkey to eat but they also provide a hiding place for poults from predatory birds and other predators.

I know I am the odd man out here but I wish they would take away killing hens period, in both seasons, the logic of killing a hen eludes me, you kill a hen you are killing your future. I am also not opposed to a one tom limit in the Spring, but only as a 3 years study to start and make a decision after that based on the evidence of doing away with killing hens altogether and a 1 tom Spring and 1 tom Fall season.

What is being done is NOT working, if you take time to listen to Mike Chamberlains interviews you will learn for the most part we are losing this fight, I would rather lose the chance at a second tom for a short period of time than to lose being able to hunt them at all for a period of time or ever.

 

 

Your right about early hay cutting. I passed a hay field a few years back and saw dead poults everywhere. Right on the road squashed as they fled cutting and walked across the road getting run over by cars. My wife was, what are all these dead birds, so I pulled over to check it out and they were young turkeys.

[Gobbler Chaser]

Last season I managed to call one stray gobbler into my back woods early season and bagged him at 25yds. That was it. This season I think I'd almost feel guilty killing one around here. I hunted some nice state land last yr and even though never being able to close the deal on one I did have some great conversation with the Toms there. One thing that really made me happy and has me looking forward to getting over there again is that there were Zero hunters? Tens of thousands of acres of varying terrain with nobody there but me.

[mowin]

On 4/15/2021 at 10:17 AM, Sir-diealot said:

Another thing stated above said if the top tom gets killed they will just move to the next one down, this is also inaccurate, the fight for the pecking order happens all over again and a hen will not breed with another until that is done Mike Chamberlain covered this in another podcast not long ago.


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This is far from accurate.  I've witnessed many times a Jake breeding a hen as the tom is coming in to my calling.  A hen will breed with toms lower on the totem pole.  

[UpStateRedNeck]

I can tell you they #'s are definitely down on my farm.  Especially compared to the 90s.  I wonder how much of an effect the bear population has on the nesting hens?  You would think with those big old sniffers the bears would get a lot of turkey eggs.

[Grouse]

Those black bear in NJ are going to decimate the deer and turkey population in North Jersey very soon.

[Buckmaster7600]

Last year I hunted turkeys in 8 New York counties and 3 north east states and I just don’t see the population being too low. I killed 2 of my turkeys last year in areas where 20yrs ago there were none. Around home we don’t have the population we did 15 yrs ago but 15 yrs ago my father and I were the only 2 people hunting my block of over 3000 acres. We also didn’t have hardly any coyotes or fox’s back then. I’m also not sure that we weren’t over populated back then either.

[Sir-diealot]

7 hours ago, mowin said:

This is far from accurate.  I've witnessed many times a Jake breeding a hen as the tom is coming in to my calling.  A hen will breed with toms lower on the totem pole.  

Think of what you are saying, as the dominate tom is coming in, they try to sneak in there yes, just like a subordinate buck will, but the dominate tom or buck does the majority of the breeding because he has won the pecking order and when that pecking order has been broken it has to be reestablished. This is the science of it, has been proven time and again.

[mowin]

1 minute ago, Sir-diealot said:

Think of what you are saying, as the dominate tom is coming in, they try to sneak in there yes, just like a subordinate buck will, but the dominate tom or buck does the majority of the breeding because he has won the pecking order and when that pecking order has been broken it has to be reestablished. This is the science of it, has been proven time and again.

You sad a hen will not breed with another tom until the pecking order has been reestablished.  That's just plain wrong. 

[Sir-diealot]

Just now, mowin said:

You sad a hen will not breed with another tom until the pecking order has been reestablished.  That's just plain wrong. 

Go argue it with the wild life biologists, as I said Mike Chamberlain covered it.

[mowin]

Just now, Sir-diealot said:

Go argue it with the wild life biologists, as I said Mike Chamberlain covered it.

No need to seen it enough with my own eyes. 

[Sir-diealot]

3 minutes ago, mowin said:

No need to seen it enough with my own eyes. 

What you think you see is not necessarily what you are seeing, he may mount her but she selects who she allows to let fertilize her eggs by the pecking order. By the way, sorry, did not mean to come off like a jerk up there.

[mowin]

16 minutes ago, Sir-diealot said:

What you think you see is not necessarily what you are seeing, he may mount her but she selects who she allows to let fertilize her eggs by the pecking order. By the way, sorry, did not mean to come off like a jerk up there.

Were good.  If a hen let's a lesser tom mount it, she's gonna let him do his deed, lol.  

 

[jperch]

In the areas that I hunt turkey numbers and turkey behavior is very different than it was 20 years ago.  I turkey hunt in Northern Oswego and Cayuga Counties.  Back then it was not unusual for me to hear 15 different gobblers sounding off before legal hunting time.  I think this was the peak of turkey numbers, certainly in my lifetime.  They were much more aggressive back then.  I have sat on top of a hill and called to gobblers that I could just barely see and they came running in.  It's not like that now.  There is still plenty of turkeys around on the properties I hunt, just not like it used to be.  I think the predators have something to do with it, including the raccoons and hawks/owls.  I have learned to call a lot less, more softly, and generally do everything I can to not disturb the birds.  It's still a great game.

[Sir-diealot]

5 hours ago, mowin said:

Were good.  If a hen let's a lesser tom mount it, she's gonna let him do his deed, lol.  

 

Believe what you wish, I have tried to explain. I saw David Copperfield make a plane disappear once.

[mowin]

52 minutes ago, Sir-diealot said:

Believe what you wish, I have tried to explain. I saw David Copperfield make a plane disappear once.

And did you believe it? ..

You can believe this or not... called in a boss tom for a buddy that was archery only.  Tom died. Subordinate toms attacked the dead "boss", then started fighting amongst themselves to determine "who was boss. Hens all around. Within a few minutes a Jake mounted several hens as the 4 Subordinate tom's tried to figure it out who was the dominant tom.  This isn't the only time I've witnessed this. 

Might be a eastern high density area? Not sure.  My area has been over populated  for 15+ years. No shortage of 2+ yr olds. 

Sure there's been a yr or two that the hatch was low, but I really can't pinpoint a yr or two that my area was lacking in mature birds.  

Edited April 19, 2021 by mowin

[Sir-diealot]

You're first paragraph makes my argument for me.

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[G-Man]

Hens will mate with multiple Tom's and hold sperm for over a month internally to fertilize her eggs.   Tom's always vie for dominance but Jake's and other Tom's breed many hens, they pick by simply laying down and exccepting the Tom's advances just like a doe may be bred by differnt bucks and twins are only half siblings.. 

[Sir-diealot]

8 hours ago, G-Man said:

Hens will mate with multiple Tom's and hold sperm for over a month internally to fertilize her eggs.   Tom's always vie for dominance but Jake's and other Tom's breed many hens, they pick by simply laying down and exccepting the Tom's advances just like a doe may be bred by differnt bucks and twins are only half siblings.. 

You're right about holding the sperm part for sure.

[G-Man]

35 minutes ago, Sir-diealot said:

You're right about holding the sperm part for sure.

Check out a video called Americas wild Turkey if you can find it ( maybe youtube) goes thru whole life cycle of turkey a d ends with a couple of hunts. One shows hen bred by tom , who gets off to chase away a jake and second bird breeds her.  ( the whole film is like a wild america documentary)