Turkey numbers?

[Lucky118]

Numbers have been down for yrs here. I stopped hunting them yrs ago. 

[Sir-diealot]

19 hours ago, G-Man said:

Check out a video called Americas wild Turkey if you can find it ( maybe youtube) goes thru whole life cycle of turkey a d ends with a couple of hunts. One shows hen bred by tom , who gets off to chase away a jake and second bird breeds her.  ( the whole film is like a wild america documentary)

I think I have seen that one actually. I do not deny they breed with more than one, of course they do, but it is mostly done by hierarchy.

[Gobbler Chaser]

At this point all I can hope for is May 1 hunters moving birds into my area. Went over to state land yesterday before light and was disappointed. Another line hunter there doing the same as me. 

[G-Man]

19 hours ago, Sir-diealot said:

I think I have seen that one actually. I do not deny they breed with more than one, of course they do, but it is mostly done by hierarchy.

Yes but by choice of males not females they will breed with any male, males fight to keep others away much like elk

[LET EM GROW]

Ive seen with my own two eyes, one tom breed a hen.. a short while later chase a group of jakes off and the second tm of the group then mounted the hen.  IT defintly happens. A hen doesnt care who breeds her. She just needs that seed. She also stores those male seeds internally for several weeks. Jakes and Toms will breed hens, The only downfall of jake breeding a hen, Is that he may not be equipped enough to get the job done successfully. But that wont stop them from attempting. 

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, blackbeltbill said:

  Wild Turkey Population  Has Increased...

In certain pockets of the state.  But total population in NY overall, not so much.  Habitat and predation seem to be the biggest factors affecting the population total.

Edited April 22, 2021 by Grouse

[land 1]

got to agree with grouse maybe in certain areas the population is up but not overall i know its way down around me , from say 15,20yrs ago

[LET EM GROW]

Turkey numbers in certain areas have increased, but overall have decreased. Just ask across the state. The majority don’t see the beautiful birds they used too. The areas that have increased obviously have the better habitat for turkey or better farming practice IMO


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[mowin]

Have to agree with Bill. 

Northern Columbia and Southern Rensselaer countries are thick with birds.  My cousin had over 100 wintering on his property.  No crops around, just a few hay fields.  Buddy that has 6-8 cows had over a 100 winter on his property also.  Seeing lots of strutting birds while driving around early mornings.  

[Grouse]

If numbers are up, why is the fall season still short and the limit still less?

[land 1]

ok so if u got all the numbers since 86 , and i would think the harvest  peaked in late 90's early 20's have harvest rates steadily declined sinces i  think they have indicating lower state wide decline in turkey numbers

[Sir-diealot]

Yes but by choice of males not females they will breed with any male, males fight to keep others away much like elk

I can agree with that.

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Edit: I mean I agree they fight for breeding order. I found program Chamberlain talks about it on, it was on Meat Eater. I will try to remember to link it when I get home.

[LET EM GROW]

I have the DEC paperwork reported Takes of Spring + Fall Turkeys going back to 1986.
  Some of the Western NY Countys had a Fall Turkey Harvest more then Doubling the Spring Kill.
  And this was in a huge area with ( already) - a 1 Turkey Fall Limit.
   You take huge amounts of Fall Turkeys each year for Decades on end and eventually-- the Wild Turkey Population  will take a Noticeable  Dip.
   Habitat Loss + Predators  yes obviously. 
 But the enormous  Fall Kill Rate in the Western NY Countys also played a huge part.
  
 

I can’t argue what is seen down there. And from how it’s been described, habitat seems much more beneficial to turkey in your areas than ours. Hats off to you fellas, more birds means more fun! LOL Less ag farming and more natives and cover. Just seems these parts here get farmed harder and harder each year , using techniques that aren’t designed to incorporate wildlife. Not saying we have no birds, but the numbers are definitely low. Hunter density has risen, and mature hardwoods are spread across every hillside. Timber management all across the western southern tier here would benefit a lot.
I will have t check thee numbers out bc I have many many sportsman friends and hardly any but maybe a couple even participate in Fall turkey season, and the bow hunters rarely ever put an arrow into a turkey during fall either. Not arguing your research. Just seems off around these parts.


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[Gobbler Chaser]

Blackbelt is on with his numbers in Orange etc according to DEC reports. I actually saw 3 hens cruising thru a field behind one of my outbuildings this AM. I'll be out with coffee sitting on a stump tomorrow as the sky lightens with my ears open.

[land 1]

well at least they are doing good in some areas of state

[Sir-diealot]

On 4/21/2021 at 10:53 AM, G-Man said:

Yes but by choice of males not females they will breed with any male, males fight to keep others away much like elk

Here is that link, very good show but long, I was about an hour in but they had not talked about it yet. https://www.themeateater.com/listen/meateater/ep-214-gobbling-your-ass-off

[G-Man]

On 4/22/2021 at 10:40 AM, land 1 said:

got to agree with grouse maybe in certain areas the population is up but not overall i know its way down around me , from say 15,20yrs ago

That was peak of reintroduction. Think how much the woods have grown in 10 years , fallow field put back into production for corn as ethanol was mandated in gas..  add crazy food plotter taking even small fallow.fields back into production and mowing their clover like crazy..  things change unless you try and maintain them. 

Pop was down here as well now last 2 years have been decent hatch, lot of management for habitat and numbers are up

[G-Man]

26 minutes ago, Sir-diealot said:

Here is that link, very good show but long, I was about an hour in but they had not talked about it yet. https://www.themeateater.com/listen/meateater/ep-214-gobbling-your-ass-off

Here nice and summed up.

The hen chooses , toms fight to https://www.nwtf.org/hunt/wild-turkey-basics/lifestyle-breeding  keep others away ( if your the only.guy in the room filled with women you might get laid)

[Yorehntr]

Numbers are nothing like they were in in late 90’s early 2000’s . The bobcat population is exploding in the southeast parts of the state., to the point where I think it’s probably having an effect  also, they’re susceptible to some virus that effects the liver. Lpdv.. not sure what that does, but I agree that there’s a decline, but still overall decent numbers 

 

[Sir-diealot]

Here nice and summed up.
The hen chooses , toms fight to https://www.nwtf.org/hunt/wild-turkey-basics/lifestyle-breeding  keep others away ( if your the only.guy in the room filled with women you might get laid)

If you know anything about wildlife you know the female will choose the one at the top of the pecking order. That is stated in the first bit of the article. Did you listen to what I shared?

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[G-Man]

6 minutes ago, Sir-diealot said:

If you know anything about wildlife you know the female will choose the one at the top of the pecking order. That is stated in the first bit of the article. Did you listen to what I shared?

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Yes and if it is  removed or unavailable she picks the next or whatever is available.  Hens will breed with Jake's,  there is nothing saying only.the dominant bird breeds ,he may be on one hen an another hen is being mounted by satellite tom or jake. Just like an elk herd. You kill top bird another one moves in. No worries. 

[land 1]

agree with gman ive seen spikes breed does ive seen jakes breed hens, and even tho not wildlife the ugly mutt dog down the road is def not the alpha male but he  breeds every female dog in the neighborhood

Edited April 25, 2021 by land 1
mis read post

[G-Man]

A gobbler strutting for a hen

The increase of daylight in spring triggers hormonal changes in wild turkeys. The initiation of gobbling in late February to early March signals the approach of the mating period. Gobbling is used to attract receptive females for mating. Gobblers are polygamous and will mate with several hens. Only the most dominant gobblers do the majority of the mating although subdominant gobblers and jakes will sneak in and breed a few hens..

Gobbling begins before sunrise while the gobbler is still on the roost. The gobbler is hoping to attract as many hens as possible before he flies down. It varies some but usually about 15 minutes before sunrise, the gobbler flies down and begins his courtship display by strutting and gobbling for the hen(s). Strutting begins with the raising of body feathers, fanning of the tail, and dropping the wings alongside to the ground. Blood rushes to the gobbler's head, and his snood elongates and his caruncles turn a bright red. If the hen is receptive, she will crouch before the displaying gobbler and they will mate. A single mating is sufficient to fertilize all eggs, but hens usually mate several times.

Once the mating season is fully underway, hens seek out nesting areas to lay eggs. Laying generally begins in late March to early April through most of the country. Turkeys usually nest in areas (old fields, cutovers, pine forests, stream edges) with a well-developed under story that provides some bushy/vine concealment. One egg is laid daily until a clutch averaging 9 to 11 eggs is completed. Incubation takes 28 days, and all poults hatch within a 24-hour period. Depending on weather, the brood hen and poults leave the nest within 24 hours of hatching. Peak hatching period is from about May 20 to June 10. If the first nest is destroyed, some hens attempt a second nest. Hens that have to re-nest lay fewer eggs.

Generally, less than half of all nesting attempts are successful. The fact that wild turkeys nest on the ground and require a total of 6 weeks to lay and incubate eggs makes hens and their nests vulnerable to predation and human disturbance (destroying nests by burning, mowing, and discing). Common predators of turkey eggs include raccoons, skunks, opossums, crows, and snakes. Mortality rates of poults generally range from 70 to 80 percent or higher, especially during their first 2 weeks of life, when they are unable to fly and roost under the hen on the ground.

Poult predators include mammals of which raccoon and bobcats cause the greatest loss. Foxes and coyotes are also important predators. Birds caused 13 percent and reptiles were responsible for 4 percent of the loss. Feral dogs and cats also will prey on hens/eggs when the opportunity arises. Fortunately, turkeys have a high reproductive potential, and one good hatch can significantly increase populations and offset previous poor hatches.

dominate birds keep others away it's that simple remove him. And his harem will be split up and bred by satellite Tom's that are now dominat, and Jake's will still get a few on the fringes while he trys to keep. The hens all together.  Pecking order is established in minutes. , I'm not sure what your so worried about,  pray for warm dry weather from middle of may to middle of June and have good habitat and numbers bounce back quickly..  over 30 years working with biologists trap and transferring birds and hunting them .  You learn quick how important nesting habitat is. 

[Sir-diealot]

Only the most dominant gobblers do the majority of the mating although subdominant gobblers and jakes will sneak in and breed a few hens..

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That is from what YOU just posted.

[LET EM GROW]

Seen and heard several jakes this weekend.. only one big Tom which was only a few steps from dying. Never even heard another Tom gobble. The few jakes is a good sign. But as mentioned habitat loss and bad weather is the worse


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