ESSAY: Unfollowing Hunting Social Media will make Hunting Better

[Five Seasons]

19 minutes ago, phade said:

I hope this also goes the right way but both replies give me the impression you look at it from your POV only.

The ability to bring in money to improve a family's quality of life - over a single deer? I'm sure at some point there is a balance, but I don't begrudge anyone of the few "lotto" winners who make money off of a deer they killed. I wouldn't prefer to advertise out a buck if I were that lucky, but at some point it becomes too greedy to not think about your family. Does $50K change lives? No, but place that in a 529, custodial retirement account, etc. and it becomes meaningful for a child. Or other various examples.

Second, helping others isn't about the killing. If you've never understood why killing something that you don't personally need can still be "good," then you shouldn't be eating meat from the store. Because, someone killed it for you. 

We all hunt for different reasons, many of which we all struggle to articulate. That said, killing something to be used by others is as old as human existence.

I guess I look at a needy family and think that money or groceries might go further and that the deer is just an excuse some use to punch another tag. I guess the exception is those who have very abundant populations and the expense of killing a deer isn't on top of anything they're already doing to hunt. 

[phade]

6 minutes ago, Belo said:

I guess I look at a needy family and think that money or groceries might go further and that the deer is just an excuse some use to punch another tag. I guess the exception is those who have very abundant populations and the expense of killing a deer isn't on top of anything they're already doing to hunt. 

Venison is also comparatively heart-friendly red meat. 

I know I used to donate a deer a year to a guy who could no longer eat red meat except for vension and other more exotic domesticated options that were expensive to buy based on doctor orders.

[wolc123]

34 minutes ago, Belo said:

I appreciate the levity that you approached this with, so hopefully my return question is understood to be inquisitive and not disrespectful. IIRC, you do a lot of African hunting so I think that your donation of meat is a little different than the average NY whitetail hunter. So for arguments sakes, lets just stick to local deer with my question.

I have not donated meat. On good years I almost always give away some packages to family, but not because they were needy, but because I could and it's never been a whole deer's worth. Meaning I never killed with the intent of giving it away. 

For those that hunt and donate a whole deer to a friend or to a food kitchen... why? I've never understood killing something that I personally didn't need. I've never understood the thought that you were fulfilling the government's quota. I swear some of the guys here are the same guys who wont get the vaccine the gov't is begging them to get and yet they're out there trying to knock the deer numbers down for them.

At what point is it just "killing" and an excuse to kill and no longer pursuit?

Honest question and again, no disrespect meant I just don't get it. 

Probably the most important reason to kill and give a deer away, that you don’t plan on eating, is to help manage the herd.  I know you think you are pretty smart, but the DEC is staffed by professionals, who most likely know a lot better, what is best for the deer, and other people besides just hunters.

Maybe you have not been personally touched by tragedy, but no animal has caused more harm to people, in the lower 48 , than the whitetail deer.  A father was taken from his family, when one crashed thru the window of his delivery van, in my home town a few years ago.

In the future, if enough hunters display your kind of selfishness , the DEC may find a better management tool than us hunters.  Right now, we (some of us anyhow) are the best that they got.

Now please, I beg you, get out there and do your part over the next 2.5 days.  If you want to do it with cash, instead of meat, you can also give that thru the venison donation coalition, wherever licenses are sold.

[left field]

34 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

I know you think you are pretty smart, but the DEC is staffed by professionals, who most likely know a lot better, what is best for the deer, and other people besides just hunters.

Not according to 3/4 of the guys here.

 

[wolc123]

14 minutes ago, left field said:

Not according to 3/4 of the guys here.

 

There is hope for all of them though.

[Five Seasons]

2 hours ago, left field said:

Not according to 3/4 of the guys here.

 

 

2 hours ago, wolc123 said:

There is hope for all of them though.

I don't think anyone questions the intelligence of the DEC wildlife managers and biologists. I think there is genuine concern that the top brass is influenced by outside forces sometimes and may not always consider the science with their quotas and seasons and regulation changes. 

I hope there's not a member on this forum either republican or democrat who wouldn't agree that our government has shown it can be corrupted and that we should never take everything they say as always in our best interest. 

[ATbuckhunter]

I'm no stranger to social media as some members on here know (the ones who I am friends with on Instagram) and I believe its ruining a good bit of hunting. Guys are getting lost in jealousy. I'm seeing people who are shooting great deer, but aren't that happy with it because they're seeing guys shooting bigger ones. Too many hunters my age are having that happen to them. Guys that don't want to post their deer because they're worried people will look down on them for not shooting a 140" buck off public with a bow. Its a shame when someone shoots a beautiful deer, that they have to feel anything less than happy. 

There is a positive where its encouraging guys to push themselves and are successful when maybe they wouldn't have been with out that push from social media guys. I think people need to tune that stuff out and follow what makes them happy with hunting. In the end of the day its all about enjoying what you do. If you're not enjoying it, why do it? All in all, I think social media is hurting more than its helping at this point. 

[Dinsdale]

10 hours ago, Belo said:

I appreciate the levity that you approached this with, so hopefully my return question is understood to be inquisitive and not disrespectful. IIRC, you do a lot of African hunting so I think that your donation of meat is a little different than the average NY whitetail hunter. So for arguments sakes, lets just stick to local deer with my question.

I have not donated meat. On good years I almost always give away some packages to family, but not because they were needy, but because I could and it's never been a whole deer's worth. Meaning I never killed with the intent of giving it away. 

For those that hunt and donate a whole deer to a friend or to a food kitchen... why? I've never understood killing something that I personally didn't need. I've never understood the thought that you were fulfilling the government's quota. I swear some of the guys here are the same guys who wont get the vaccine the gov't is begging them to get and yet they're out there trying to knock the deer numbers down for them.

At what point is it just "killing" and an excuse to kill and no longer pursuit?

Honest question and again, no disrespect meant I just don't get it. 

Actually I didn’t intend for the post to expand to anything other then deer hunting. International hunting a whole boutique activity not covered in the context of this forum and carcass utilization is a structured part of those hunts.

For myself its all about the pursuit, a kill might be an end result, but not the point of the hunt. And recovery is a huge part of that program, even if the meat is not for my own use. Well made decisions ,well executed shots ending in efficient kills given the ever different sets of circumstances encountered. I place a premium on knowing my firearm, and the effectiveness of a shot presented and if I should take it or not given the chambering, load, distance, etc.

I have a co worker that thinks I’m evil incarnate for donating a deer, even though I paid for my tags and take the same chance as anyone, so just wondering what exactly is so bewildering about hunting without filling ones freezer. Everyone doesn’t have to have the same exact motivation to be considered a hunter in my view. My co worker can’t grasp that either and it was a recent topic with several hunters on a job site.

[DirtTime]

2 hours ago, ATbuckhunter said:

I'm no stranger to social media as some members on here know (the ones who I am friends with on Instagram) and I believe its ruining a good bit of hunting. Guys are getting lost in jealousy. I'm seeing people who are shooting great deer, but aren't that happy with it because they're seeing guys shooting bigger ones. Too many hunters my age are having that happen to them. Guys that don't want to post their deer because they're worried people will look down on them for not shooting a 140" buck off public with a bow. Its a shame when someone shoots a beautiful deer, that they have to feel anything less than happy. 

There is a positive where its encouraging guys to push themselves and are successful when maybe they wouldn't have been with out that push from social media guys. I think people need to tune that stuff out and follow what makes them happy with hunting. In the end of the day its all about enjoying what you do. If you're not enjoying it, why do it? All in all, I think social media is hurting more than its helping at this point. 

This makes a lot of sense in more ways then one. I remember the days of sitting a sports bar ( the outdoors kind ) and guys would be busting balls, but it was always in good fun and a round was bought while every one laughed. Hunting was taken seriously, but it wasn't taken to the extreme of actually insulting someone for taking a legal deer. Yearling bucks were sort of frowned upon, but the hunter who shot that little buck was still bought a cold beer on the harvest.

 

These days there's to much dissension, and most of it stems from the internet and because of the internet. Too many hunters feel there way is the only way and slam anyone who doesn't do things just so. "Oh that trail camera sucks you need to have this one.", "If you don't shoot a $3000 bow rig you're bow is garbage.", "You need to have $2000 glass on that $4000 rifle.", as a few examples. Then there's the guys who only hunt private land over acres and acres of food plots who think because they have 500 deer calling the area home that deer numbers are the same 100 miles away.

 

Then there's the little cliques. Every forum has them, and if you aren't part of that you're a lower class person.

 

Personally, I say do what makes you happy and don't sweat the BS. If someone feels the web is an issue then they should step away for a while. Sometime people over complicate things, and this isn't that complicated.

[Five Seasons]

Actually I didn’t intend for the post to expand to anything other then deer hunting. International hunting a whole boutique activity not covered in the context of this forum and carcass utilization is a structured part of those hunts.
For myself its all about the pursuit, a kill might be an end result, but not the point of the hunt. And recovery is a huge part of that program, even if the meat is not for my own use. Well made decisions ,well executed shots ending in efficient kills given the ever different sets of circumstances encountered. I place a premium on knowing my firearm, and the effectiveness of a shot presented and if I should take it or not given the chambering, load, distance, etc.
I have a co worker that thinks I’m evil incarnate for donating a deer, even though I paid for my tags and take the same chance as anyone, so just wondering what exactly is so bewildering about hunting without filling ones freezer. Everyone doesn’t have to have the same exact motivation to be considered a hunter in my view. My co worker can’t grasp that either and it was a recent topic with several hunters on a job site.

I didn’t say you weren’t a hunter, that it was illegal, immoral or unethical.

I just don’t understand the motivation or desire to “kill for another”. If I’m being honest I don’t think your last post did anything to help me understand it any better.

Please understand that I’m not saying that someone shouldn’t do it, and that yes it’s a choice that’s not for me. I just don’t get it.


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[Doc]

I have shot deer for members of my family that would not be able to eat venison if I hadn't have gotten it for them. Personally, I am not really all that fond of venison. I enjoy a good black angus steak or roast far more, or a nice grain-fed, greasy old cow-burger....lol. But the predator in me still enjoys the hunt.

Regarding the original topic of "hunting social media", I have to note that before all that we had piles of hunting magazines that served pretty much of the same purpose. All those bowhunting magazines that I subscribed to all those years all had the latest and greatest equipment and go-fasters, and secret hunting methods and techniques. I remember that there was a lot of B.S. peddled in those mags. But when I started bow hunting, there was not hardly anyone else doing it. This was back in the early 60's. So I devoured all the info that I could find. I can't say that any of it really did any harm, and most of it was interesting. I think the hunting social media fills that same purpose today. It's all fun as long as most of it is taken with a grain of salt and a ton of reason and logic.

[Moho81]

I just listened to The Meateater podcast and it really sounded like Matt and Steve where at odds over this. This wasn't just a bit to further there popularity and gain from it. 

With that said Matt sounds like a jealous hunter. Maybe his favorite public spots are becoming more popular and he's annoyed by it because he no longer has it to himself. I don't know just guessing. Maybe he's annoyed at his brother's success and popularity. Again just guessing but he honestly did not come off well from this podcast. Matt hinted that Steve wounds way more animals than he shows and talks about, which was interesting because Steve avoided that completely but not sure what that has to do with influencers over crowding hunting lands. It was just a dig at his brother while he had the floor. 

 

[Five Seasons]

1 hour ago, Moho81 said:

I just listened to The Meateater podcast and it really sounded like Matt and Steve where at odds over this. This wasn't just a bit to further there popularity and gain from it. 

With that said Matt sounds like a jealous hunter. Maybe his favorite public spots are becoming more popular and he's annoyed by it because he no longer has it to himself. I don't know just guessing. Maybe he's annoyed at his brother's success and popularity. Again just guessing but he honestly did not come off well from this podcast. Matt hinted that Steve wounds way more animals than he shows and talks about, which was interesting because Steve avoided that completely but not sure what that has to do with influencers over crowding hunting lands. It was just a dig at his brother while he had the floor. 

 

Matt has a previous article/essay about not wanting new hunters. So on that part you're right. It's one of those things though that I think none of us want to admit to as we all know the right thing to say in public is that we want more hunters. We're stronger together etc. But if most of us are honest, I think we too would admit we wish  we had more public to ourselves or that the neighbors didn't hunt or that we didn't get booted or have to lease land to hunt. It could be categorized as selfish, but it doesn't make it untrue.

His point about wounding as I understood it, is that it's part of the sport, yet it's not shown on social media. So it's doing a disservice to new hunters to not show the whole deal. You're just editing and showing the good stuff. The other side to that of course is that showing too much wounding is ammo for the anti's. It's a paradox. 

[Kmartinson]

On 12/7/2021 at 1:35 PM, phade said:

I'm convinced the Rinellas just spew stuff to muddy up the water and then profit from it taking pious positions all  backed by money from someone with an anti-2A history. Not a fan, personally.

 

He's definitely not anti 2a. He's stressed about public land presure that comes from social media. There's a great holiday meateater podcast that they have a nice family argument about this.

[phade]

On 1/15/2022 at 2:50 PM, Kmartinson said:

He's definitely not anti 2a. He's stressed about public land presure that comes from social media. There's a great holiday meateater podcast that they have a nice family argument about this.

We've went round and round on this. He sold out to his master who is anti-2A, and knowingly did so. 

So, please don't say he is a stauch 2A supporter. Peter Chernin has donated more money to anti 2A causes than we've all probably made in our lifetimes. Rinella chose to sell his business to him, knowing that. Despite all of the hyperbole he says otherwise. At the end of the day, Rinella and his brother should be applauded for how good of sales people they are. Not hunting. Not cooking. Selling.

Edited January 17, 2022 by phade

[Kmartinson]

As far as social media goes, it definitely helps my hunting. I learn something new all the time between this forum of you fine ladies and gentlemen, and ig. Im sure there are great things to learn on the other forums as well.

[Kmartinson]

15 minutes ago, phade said:

We've went round and round on this. He sold out to his master who is anti-2A, and knowingly did so. 

So, please don't say he is a stauch 2A supporter. Peter Chernin has donated more money to anti 2A causes than we've all probably made in our lifetimes. Rinella chose to sell his business to him, knowing that. Despite all of the hyperbole he says otherwise. At the end of the day, Rinella and his brother should be applauded for how good of sales people they are. Not hunting. Not cooking. Selling.

I thought you guys were saying Steves brother was anti 2a? His outward opposition in that podcast makes it seem like they aren't necessarily on the same page. I stopped following meateater sometime after it blew up and started taking corporate sponsors and over embellishing its social media accounts.  I was told I may like this podcast episode so I listened to it. I dont actually care either of thier opinions.

I also know that guys who spend thier life posting on here are not threatening my hunting or fishing opportunities. You can't kill em from the couch. I learn alot from what is shared on here, and I appreciate that everyone shares.

The thing about forums is that it's difficult to have a conversation without everyone getting so worked up. I guess it's my fault for engaging in this hoping to learn something when in reality I'm not informed enough to comment. Much like the other posts I've tried to comment on in the past I guess many of the members just want to feed thier rhetoric and not share thier ideas. 

[phade]

6 minutes ago, Kmartinson said:

I thought you guys were saying Steves brother was anti 2a? His outward opposition in that podcast makes it seem like they aren't necessarily on the same page. I stopped following meateater sometime after it blew up and started taking corporate sponsors and over embellishing its social media accounts.  I was told I may like this podcast episode so I listened to it. I dont actually care either of thier opinions.

I also know that guys who spend thier life posting on here are not threatening my hunting or fishing opportunities. You can't kill em from the couch. I learn alot from what is shared on here, and I appreciate that everyone shares.

The thing about forums is that it's difficult to have a conversation without everyone getting so worked up. I guess it's my fault for engaging in this hoping to learn something when in reality I'm not informed enough to comment. Much like the other posts I've tried to comment on in the past I guess many of the members just want to feed thier rhetoric and not share thier ideas. 

Part of the corporate piece you note is from the selling of Rinella's company and brand to Chernin. They dumped $50-100M into it via an umbrella type of operation. They own First Lite clothing now, for example, and the Wired to Hunt brand, etc. 

I commend you about wanting to learn; I think many people here want to and do, do the same. It's refreshing. My learning is that their podcast can't be valued on its face. That is not rhetoric, though. Peter Chernin bought controlling interest in Meateater and Rinella. Perter Chernin has donated millions of dollars to anti-2A efforts. It's not a conspiracy theory, and it's not many layers removed. And, Rinella as you noted, sells things. Really well. I probably wouldn't have learned that myself had it not been for this forum and a few other forums.

I lost alot of respect for Rinella when he at the peak of his career, chose to sell to a person of that mindset. If partnering with a like-minded business were the focus, there likely would have been a line up out the door for those who are fully in 2A or the hunting industry. Chernin was not the only game in town. He chose Chernin specifically, at a time when he was top of the mountain brand-wise. That's disappointing. He just showed that he sold to the highest bidder regardless of moral compass. He is a salesman.

[Kmartinson]

47 minutes ago, phade said:

Part of the corporate piece you note is from the selling of Rinella's company and brand to Chernin. They dumped $50-100M into it via an umbrella type of operation. They own First Lite clothing now, for example, and the Wired to Hunt brand, etc. 

I commend you about wanting to learn; I think many people here want to and do, do the same. It's refreshing. My learning is that their podcast can't be valued on its face. That is not rhetoric, though. Peter Chernin bought controlling interest in Meateater and Rinella. Perter Chernin has donated millions of dollars to anti-2A efforts. It's not a conspiracy theory, and it's not many layers removed. And, Rinella as you noted, sells things. Really well. I probably wouldn't have learned that myself had it not been for this forum and a few other forums.

I lost alot of respect for Rinella when he at the peak of his career, chose to sell to a person of that mindset. If partnering with a like-minded business were the focus, there likely would have been a line up out the door for those who are fully in 2A or the hunting industry. Chernin was not the only game in town. He chose Chernin specifically, at a time when he was top of the mountain brand-wise. That's disappointing. He just showed that he sold to the highest bidder regardless of moral compass. He is a salesman.

I didnt know this is what happened, I could see a change in meat eater and wired to hunt. Dan from 9 fingers chronicles was outed at the same time and I even complimented him on his desire to keep it real in the hunting world. Thank you for the info. Really shows in the programming not just the advertising.

[Kmartinson]

On 12/30/2021 at 6:43 PM, ATbuckhunter said:

I'm no stranger to social media as some members on here know (the ones who I am friends with on Instagram) and I believe its ruining a good bit of hunting. Guys are getting lost in jealousy. I'm seeing people who are shooting great deer, but aren't that happy with it because they're seeing guys shooting bigger ones. Too many hunters my age are having that happen to them. Guys that don't want to post their deer because they're worried people will look down on them for not shooting a 140" buck off public with a bow. Its a shame when someone shoots a beautiful deer, that they have to feel anything less than happy. 

There is a positive where its encouraging guys to push themselves and are successful when maybe they wouldn't have been with out that push from social media guys. I think people need to tune that stuff out and follow what makes them happy with hunting. In the end of the day its all about enjoying what you do. If you're not enjoying it, why do it? All in all, I think social media is hurting more than its helping at this point. 

I agree, these exact thoughts made me switch up my insta. page. I dont post kills anymore on ig. I removed them. It's not what it's about for me now. Seeing all of this negativity in regards to the kill has changed how I feel.

It's about the adventure. It's about the time with friends and family, and it's no longer about the kills. If you are a good person that I want in my personal space then you will see the trophies I am proud of. All the things I share now are hopefully to help others enjoy thier time hunting, fishing and enjoying the outdoors. 

[phade]

1 hour ago, Kmartinson said:

I didnt know this is what happened, I could see a change in meat eater and wired to hunt. Dan from 9 fingers chronicles was outed at the same time and I even complimented him on his desire to keep it real in the hunting world. Thank you for the info. Really shows in the programming not just the advertising.

Same thoughts I have. I listened to WTH in the early years as well, every single podcast, largely because I was traveling for work on an absolute horrendous pace, and throwing the headphones on listening to them while on planes was about the only respite I had for two/2.5 years straight. The podcast now is a former shell of itself. I listen from time to time, but just not the same with the corporate feel/sales tones, and Mark definitely seems to have gone the "pro" route in his demeanor. Early podcasts were him being more inquisitive and curious. Now, it's more of a "listen to me" angle. The incorporation with Meateater was that driver IMO.

A former member here, or maybe inactive member now, was the subject of a podcast for Dan in his first year or so. It was an out of state public buck harvest story/podcast.