Proposed crossbow legislation for 2022

[Four Seasons]

2 hours ago, Belo said:

For sure, I've actually missed more with a gun than a bow and I think that's because mentally I know I have to have all my shit together with a bow and with a gun I've taken some less than ideal shots. But my point is that a killing weapon with an optic and trigger has less variables and is more forgiving under stress. Hell simply forgetting to bend at the waist could be the difference between wounded and dead, let alone a blurry peep, lower light collection without a scope, dropping the bow hand, follow through, incorrect grip or wrist position. Things that are all easy to control while target practicing but become more challenging on a 15* moring in a stand in November after sitting for 3 hours. 

To be fair, I think there has only been 1 or 2 guys in the long tenure of this debate on this board that have argued the compound was easier than the crossbow, so I'm kinda preaching to the choir. And there are folks that think my stance against the crossbow is negative and elitest. I don't find that negative at all as I do agree that the archery season should be reserved for those in pursuit of a challenge. It's meant to be hard. Society today is always looking to dumb shit down and make it easier for everyone. Inclusivity and all that BS that a certain political group shoves down your throats every day.

Why? Why can't we have something that's intentionally difficult and challenging? Isn't that what makes arrowing a 3.5 year old buck feel so f'n spectacular? Why does it feel so good? Because it's freaking hard. 

/rant

That still can be a personal choice even with full inclusion. You can make it as hard as you want with a wooden bow and arrows and you can make it as easy as possible. Choices… Many play softball. Some fast pitch… Some slow pitch.. Still Softball. 

[Jeremy K]

1 hour ago, stubborn1VT said:

Do any hardcore "archery" guys shoot trad, or even fingers? I don't have much patience for the idea that a compound is so hard when almost all use a release.  I get some of the anti-crossbow feelings, but the idea that a modern compound and crossbow are SO different is beyond me.  This archery tackle with a trigger is okay, but that archery tackle with a trigger is no challenge and only for slobs.  SMH.

I started out that way . Why would I go backwards?

[Five Seasons]

16 hours ago, Four Seasons said:

I Think you are getting a little carried away with your connections here but to your questions. A meth house? A couple in the area but not my concern or am I the only one that believes so. The other two I would probably have to open up. In the case of private hunting property purchased and taxed on being ruined in part by some fool sitting in an office that is totally clueless to what’s going on with a piece of ground is not flying. Now if someone else wants to pay 250 grand for property and then get taxed 10 grand plus a year to allow someone else to ruin it for them then that’s on them. Many in these parts have not and will not let that happen. Call it what you will but one could even say the little ticket one might get in return for their doings would be well worth the price when it comes to investments.                                             I hope that does not sound like I am Boasting about others doings for any Karen’s out there. If so I deeply apologize !!!  

I'm not sure where and what you mean when you keep referencing some fool sitting in an office who is totally clueless. Did you get picked on as a kid or something? These are state biologists and wildlife management officials, not software engineers. You should subscribe to the DEC newsletter and you may better understand what they do and how they do it.

Who are these Karens you're referring to? I'm not sure you understand what a Karen is. 

[Five Seasons]

19 hours ago, Nomad said:

30 yards ?! Since ‘88 I shot one bow deer at 25,  the rest were all between 8-15 . I seldom have ever practiced at 30 , no need .   
 

Bow season is about hunting skills brush up on them son .

ah there it is. Mr. washes in irish springs has popped into the chat.

You should be wise in your age to know we don't all hunt the same area and deer. I'm glad you get shots at 8-15. So do I. But I've killed some nice deer at 30 as well and so do many others. If anything, the later requires more skills "old man". 

[Five Seasons]

2 hours ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

If you’re after the challenge why don’t you hunt with a trad bow?

Why do you think the technology you use with a compound is acceptable but Xbow technology isn’t?

Again, I’m against full inclusion I’m just curious why/how your line in the sand is cams, peeps, release, etc but not scope and butt stock?


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some day I might try traditional. My line is that with a compound I need to draw the bow, hold it on target (most guys aren't holding for more than a few minutes and deer don't always cooperate do they?), then I need to do all those things I mentioned in the previous post and then release. 

I understand the ravin is not legal in NY, but the NYCC would like to see it be. It is 6" wide. What's a rifle or shotgun 2 or 3 inches wide at most? It weighs 6.5 pounds. My ruger american .30-06 weighs 6.2 WITHOUT a scope. Other than lethal distance and sound that's literally the only difference between a crossbow and a gun. You aim through a scope and pull a trigger. https://ravincrossbows.com/product/r26x-crossbow/

What are the similarities? The trad bow, compound and crossbow all used a string to propel a bolt or arrow. So we lump them together. I don't know what a draw weight is on a trad bow, but iirc it's around 50 or 60. The issue being without a letoff one cannot hold it very long. Most NY compounds are setup with a draw weight of 50-70 and 80 or 90% letoffs. The ravin is 340lbs... yes you read that right, 340!

These are the 2 arguments repeated at nauseum for the last 10 or so years. I've said it a dozen times. I don't care if it passes, it won't change a thing for me. But like you, if I had a vote, I'd be against it for able bodied non-senior citizens. I believe it tarnishes the tradition, uniqueness and exclusivity of the archery season which was and has always been intended to be a challenge. Who sets the challenge is the next question and by and large I'd say it should be the hunter. For sure it's harder to shoot a mature buck than it is to shoot a button. It's generally harder to spot and stalk, it's generally hard to hunt public land. A hunter can decide for him or herself what their challenge should be, but the state needs to set a bar. It's why they broke up archery and firearm and muzzleloader. They set a bar and now that bar is becoming blurry because many want an easier road to success. 

[Five Seasons]

2 hours ago, stubborn1VT said:

Do any hardcore "archery" guys shoot trad, or even fingers? I don't have much patience for the idea that a compound is so hard when almost all use a release.  I get some of the anti-crossbow feelings, but the idea that a modern compound and crossbow are SO different is beyond me.  This archery tackle with a trigger is okay, but that archery tackle with a trigger is no challenge and only for slobs.  SMH.

I think it's very important to note that nobody is saying a compound is HARD, but that it's substantially different or harder than a crossbow. So the statement is used relatively. 

Also nobody called anyone a slob in this thread, so stop gaslighting. 

Edited May 4, 2022 by Belo

[Five Seasons]

2 hours ago, DirtTime said:

So you're OK taking a less ethical shot with a firearm than with a bow? Sometimes I swear you type to troll people and keep the argument going.

I started gun hunting at 16 and archery at 24. Yes I've taken some poor shots with a gun. Not intentionally but because I was learning and learning the hard way. My point is that many, myself included will wait for the perfect shot with a bow and take less than perfect shots with a gun. The later doesn't imply unethical btw. Not sure why 2 of you are now trying to put words in my mouth that I didn't use. This is all text, we can all see what I wrote. 

Edited May 4, 2022 by Belo

[Jeremy K]

I just find it hilarious when guys try and say a vertice bow and a crossbow are even in the same league .

[Five Seasons]

Is this our field archer?

 

[Five Seasons]

miss your first shot? no worries, you have another one ready to go! Or heck, shoot em both at the same time!

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by Belo

[grampy]

13 minutes ago, Belo said:

Is this our field archer?

 

That is one sweet crossbow!!!

[stubborn1VT]

1 hour ago, Jeremy K said:

I started out that way . Why would I go backwards?

Just not too far forward, apparently.

[stubborn1VT]

3 hours ago, DirtTime said:

I shot fingers with every compound I have owned until I bought my current bow which is way to short axle to axle to do so. I have tried and it just doesn't work on shorter bows.

Buy a longer bow.  I shot down to 36" with fingers, no problem. 

[stubborn1VT]

53 minutes ago, Belo said:

Other than lethal distance and sound that's literally the only difference between a crossbow and a gun. You aim through a scope and pull a trigger. 

And here I thought you were at least trying to stick to the facts.  You just love to debate this stuff, which is fine, but you end up trolling to keep it going.  There is a difference between getting stabbed with a knife and shot with a bullet.  You're too smart to defend something a dumb as the statement above.  Do better.

Crossbows hurt your delicate sensibilities.  That's the long and short.  You struggle mightily to come up with reasonable arguments against crossbows.  NY has tons of deer.  In many places, there are too many deer.  There aren't so many hunters.  Crossbows are a very efficient way to kill deer at short yardage.  They are also safer to use than firearms in many settings. 

I wish everyone had the time, money and commitment to take up hunting with a vertical bow.  It makes you a better hunter.  That's not going to happen.  Complaining about crossbows does more harm than good.  Sitting up on your high horse defending the purity of bow hunting only divides hunters.  Railing against other people using crossbows doesn't make you a principled sportsman, it makes you a snowflake.  

[Four Seasons]

2 hours ago, Belo said:

I'm not sure where and what you mean when you keep referencing some fool sitting in an office who is totally clueless. Did you get picked on as a kid or something? These are state biologists and wildlife management officials, not software engineers. You should subscribe to the DEC newsletter and you may better understand what they do and how they do it.

Who are these Karens you're referring to? I'm not sure you understand what a Karen is. 

I am well aware of who makes the hunting seasons and dates in the state. Which means absolutely nothing to some when it comes to managing their own property.       Maybe someday you will own a number of properties  and know exactly where some are coming from.  

[Five Seasons]

40 minutes ago, stubborn1VT said:

And here I thought you were at least trying to stick to the facts.  You just love to debate this stuff, which is fine, but you end up trolling to keep it going.  There is a difference between getting stabbed with a knife and shot with a bullet.  You're too smart to defend something a dumb as the statement above.  Do better.

Crossbows hurt your delicate sensibilities.  That's the long and short.  You struggle mightily to come up with reasonable arguments against crossbows.  NY has tons of deer.  In many places, there are too many deer.  There aren't so many hunters.  Crossbows are a very efficient way to kill deer at short yardage.  They are also safer to use than firearms in many settings. 

I wish everyone had the time, money and commitment to take up hunting with a vertical bow.  It makes you a better hunter.  That's not going to happen.  Complaining about crossbows does more harm than good.  Sitting up on your high horse defending the purity of bow hunting only divides hunters.  Railing against other people using crossbows doesn't make you a principled sportsman, it makes you a snowflake.  

I'm too smart to defend something as the statement above? Which statement was that, I made plenty

I think I came up with plenty of reasonable arguments, and many states and this one tend to agree. So who is wrong?

You can use a crossbow for the september doe hunt, the best 2 weeks a year AND during all of firearm and into mz and the holiday season. So minus what is normally a pretty dull month of October, you can use a crossbow to be efficient at short yardage where they are safer than firearms... although now you're calling hunters with guns dangerous so that's interesting. But I wont poke at that low hanging fruit. Tell me how that month of October is limiting harvests? You know hunter access is the issue in my neck of the woods right? Not lack of crossbows. Heck in the north the issue is not enough deer, so do we want to kill more or less?

How are we divided? I'd help all but maybe 3 people on this board if they needed a hand. Hell I'd help drag a wounded buck shot with a crossbow if I was able and someone needed it. There are zero people giving up hunting and becoming members of PETA because Belo doesn't like crossbows. Let me end with this. Who and how much do you donate to for conservation and hunting every year? I can show you my TRCP, NWTF, NRA and BHA receipts. I'm raising 3 young bowhunters as we speak as well. Can you say the same?

[Five Seasons]

1 minute ago, Four Seasons said:

I am well aware of who makes the hunting seasons and dates in the state. Which means absolutely nothing to some when it comes to managing their own property.       Maybe someday you will own a number of properties  and know exactly where some are coming from.  

I actually own, or lease or have hunting rights to 7 different properties. 3 in 8F, 3 in 7J and 1 surrounded by public land in 6J.

IIRC, you hunt public land and don't even hunt the land you own. Am I mistaken? 

[DirtTime]

1 hour ago, stubborn1VT said:

Buy a longer bow.  I shot down to 36" with fingers, no problem. 

I'll get right on that.

[Four Seasons]

1 minute ago, Belo said:

I actually own, or lease or have hunting rights to 7 different properties. 3 in 8F, 3 in 7J and 1 surrounded by public land in 6J.

IIRC, you hunt public land and don't even hunt the land you own. Am I mistaken? 

 I own land in both ends of the state and yes I hunt both at times. The public land is much more of a challenge and carries more of the class of Whitetails I chase.    The changes nothing to the fact that many landowners will do whatever it takes to make sure their hunting properties remain to the standards they bought them for. And if that entails making their own decisions on when and where harvests are needed then their ok with that. Right or wrong it’s just the way it is. 

[Lawdwaz]

9 hours ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

In my 50 years I've never seen a draw lock in person or heard of anyone using one


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I’ve known two guys that had them; my old barber Arty and I don’t k is if he used it much and another fellow (good friend 89 years old now) who had one ten years ago but never used it.   Too much of a cluster Fugg to bother with.   

[stubborn1VT]

56 minutes ago, Belo said:

1 hour ago, stubborn1VT said:

I'm too smart to defend something as the statement above? Which statement was that, I made plenty

Umm... the one I quoted?  I think you have way too much time on your hands.  Maybe more getting up and turkey hunting and less circular arguments on the internet?  Just a thought.  

I checked on the thread.  I'm out.  Have fun.

[Trad bow]

I bow hunt with a longbow , after many years hunting with the compound it just became routine to kill a buck and my interest started to wane. That was about 20 years ago and I haven’t looked back.  I make my arrows using feathers from turkeys I kill, make my own strings , hand sharpen my broadheads and the flight of arrow is so fascinating I shoot for hours and never get bored. I’m now shooting a bow I made myself with guidance from a friend that’s a Boyer. I have brought many people into traditional archery and I can’t describe the smile on someone’s face the first time they hit the bullseye it’s really magic. 

[Skillet]

Enough with this stupid thread! For the love of the sport, just frickin stop. What a joke we are.

[G-Man]

5 hours ago, Jeremy K said:

I started out that way . Why would I go backwards?

So you are against moving backwards or forwards....

[G-Man]

4 hours ago, Belo said:

some day I might try traditional. My line is that with a compound I need to draw the bow, hold it on target (most guys aren't holding for more than a few minutes and deer don't always cooperate do they?), then I need to do all those things I mentioned in the previous post and then release. 

I understand the ravin is not legal in NY, but the NYCC would like to see it be. It is 6" wide. What's a rifle or shotgun 2 or 3 inches wide at most? It weighs 6.5 pounds. My ruger american .30-06 weighs 6.2 WITHOUT a scope. Other than lethal distance and sound that's literally the only difference between a crossbow and a gun. You aim through a scope and pull a trigger. https://ravincrossbows.com/product/r26x-crossbow/

What are the similarities? The trad bow, compound and crossbow all used a string to propel a bolt or arrow. So we lump them together. I don't know what a draw weight is on a trad bow, but iirc it's around 50 or 60. The issue being without a letoff one cannot hold it very long. Most NY compounds are setup with a draw weight of 50-70 and 80 or 90% letoffs. The ravin is 340lbs... yes you read that right, 340!

These are the 2 arguments repeated at nauseum for the last 10 or so years. I've said it a dozen times. I don't care if it passes, it won't change a thing for me. But like you, if I had a vote, I'd be against it for able bodied non-senior citizens. I believe it tarnishes the tradition, uniqueness and exclusivity of the archery season which was and has always been intended to be a challenge. Who sets the challenge is the next question and by and large I'd say it should be the hunter. For sure it's harder to shoot a mature buck than it is to shoot a button. It's generally harder to spot and stalk, it's generally hard to hunt public land. A hunter can decide for him or herself what their challenge should be, but the state needs to set a bar. It's why they broke up archery and firearm and muzzleloader. They set a bar and now that bar is becoming blurry because many want an easier road to success. 

Good argument and traditional archers  used that to try and keep compounds out and traditional bows could go up to 150 lbs or.more..  people who use heavy pulls actually change their bone structure..   the only difference  is  most bows need to be drawnjust before shot  compounds do not.. the speed  is negated by shorness of arrow on a crossbow and an compound will actually have more kenetic energy down range..  the most important thing is they kill the exactly the same way and have the same aiming points.  Thats why the myth of its just like a gun needs to end..  i have no problems with restrictions on crossbows  and feel  they should of been left out of this bill.  If your using a xbow in ny now it should be nys legal already..