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Deer management draft proposal recently released by the DEC.


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DEC has developed a draft Deer Management Plan for New York State. This process began in 2009 when DEC hosted a series of meetings across the state to engage New Yorkers in a discussion of deer management issues and to solicit the public's input on deer management priorities (see Public Meetings on Deer Management). DEC then contracted with the Human Dimensions Research Unit at Cornell University to complete a formal survey of New York deer hunters (see Statewide Deer Hunter Survey - 2010 (PDF); 516 kB) to further explore specific issues that emerged during the public meetings. Input from the public and results of various hunters surveys were used by DEC biologists and managers to help develop the recommendations and management actions contained in the draft plan.

The draft plan describes six primary goals that encompass the current priorities for deer management and the values and issues expressed by the public:

  1. Manage deer populations at levels that are appropriate for human and ecological concerns;
  2. Promote and enhance deer hunting as an important recreational activity, tradition, and population management tool in New York;
  3. Reduce negative impacts caused by deer;
  4. Foster public understanding and communication about deer ecology, deer management, economic aspects and recreational opportunities;
  5. Manage deer to promote healthy and sustainable forests and enhance habitat conservation efforts to benefit deer and other species; and
  6. Ensure that the necessary resources are available to support sound management of white-tailed deer in New York.

See Attached.

Or here: http://www.dec.ny.go...eerplan0611.pdf

And more info here: http://www.dec.ny.go...imals/7211.html

View attachment: draftdeerplan06111.pdf

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They are proposing 4 days during the week. How many do you think will be involved in that season? Personally, except for Thanksgiving week I don't get to hunt during the week. I won't even know they are out there.

That's a ridiculous argument. Plenty of guys will take advantage. and just because you are not out there doesn't mean other bow hunters are not. and just because you are not out there does not mean it won't screw the hunting up.

So the added 15 days to you (or eight depending on if you hunt when the youth/ML) isn't worth it. You would rather have it like it is?

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Yes I would rather have it like it is versus guns in the middle of archery season. I don't get real excited about hunting in 70 degree heat with mosquitoes and all the leaves on the trees. 

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No I didn't say that...I'm just pointing out the possible draw backs...personally I only hunt private land...and have always thought from sightings here...that Oct 1 would give me a very nice chance a a good buck...They are more at ease...seen more during the day hours and not running full board at doe or away from other buck...sparring is happening but not full out battles...just my observations on our lands

Now public lands are a whole other story and ...Well I do see a problem for those guys...We still don't have mandatory orange for gun hunters...which I personally think should be a must...at the very least it would give bow hunters a chance to see possible dangers and try to avoid such....

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Anybody concerned about the use of firearms during a time when visibility is impaired by leaves? I'm referring to the safety element of people shooting at things that are mostly hidden by foliage and promoting that old "target mis-identification" thing that is the major cause of hunting accidents.

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Anybody concerned about the use of firearms during a time when  visibility is impaired by leaves? I'm referring to the safety element of  people shooting at things that are mostly hidden by foliage and  promoting that old "target mis-identification" thing that is the major  cause of hunting accidents.

Yep :(

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Anybody concerned about the use of firearms during a time when visibility is impaired by leaves? I'm referring to the safety element of people shooting at things that are mostly hidden by foliage and promoting that old "target mis-identification" thing that is the major cause of hunting accidents.

Big time. But watch out, the solution the DEC will probably go with is to close the archery season for that week so this gimmick season can take place. 

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If all these concerns are valid I would think we wouldn't have any hunters left in the NZ. And before I get the comment on the vast expanses of the NZ, there are many area that are just like alot of what we hunt down south. They start hunting with Rifles and ML for deer in Mid October....leaves on the trees and all....even earlier for Bear but the numbers of hunters are far less than for deer. Other states hunt with guns in the same time frame and even earlier in some of the southern states.

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Wow, 4 pages of posts for a bunch of proposals that are at this point only proposals.  To me it only looks like the DEC is just shooting their mouths off incoherently with most of what they are saying here.  For example AR's.  They shot them down 2 seasons ago in those areas they are proposing them again here.  So what's up with this garbage?  In other DEC literature they state that "AR's are not biologically necessary" and here they are proposing them again.  Sounds like a bunch of BS to me.  It seems to me that they are talking from both sides of their mouth and the end result is that they make little sense and constantly contradicting themselves.

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Wow, 4 pages of posts for a bunch of proposals that are at this point only proposals.  To me it only looks like the DEC is just shooting their mouths off incoherently with most of what they are saying here.  For example AR's.  They shot them down 2 seasons ago in those areas they are proposing them again here.  So what's up with this garbage?  In other DEC literature they state that "AR's are not biologically necessary" and here they are proposing them again.  Sounds like a bunch of BS to me.  It seems to me that they are talking from both sides of their mouth and the end result is that they make little sense and constantly contradicting themselves.

Business as usual then :(

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I dont really understand the argument against guns in the woods for the early ml season. You guys do realize we already have turkey, waterfowl and small game hunters out there with us during bow season now, right? The ml hhnters wont be flinging 5 in a row like some of the shotgunners and rifle guys do.

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but they will be pushing the deer around and have a much farther range w/a .50 cal bullet, than turkey and bird hunters, and be shooting level w/the horizon, unlike bird hunters.

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I've seen more deer pushed around by kids on 4 wheelers than i have by muzzleloader hunters! lets see most hunters hunt from an elevated position, leaves still on trees and hot and buggy, so most likely morning and evening hunts will be in order. probably over fields, 4 days during the week. I really don't see a problem with this compared to opening day of rifle when there will be 3 to 4 times as many hunters in the woods, shooting at anything(doe or buck) some with more than they shold have had to drink the night before. Than a guy with one shot who is after doe.If your that worried about being shot don a orange hat/vest tie a ribbon to a tree...deer are colorblind.(the camo we wear really just makes us feel good)  My guess is he will be a lot more sure of his target having only one shot. As for the youth hunt...3 days maybe 20,000 kids tops? spread out over nys still having to hunt with an adult/mentor?                                                                                              I really don't know how you doom and gloom people ever go hunting at all? I think you would be to afraid to leave your house! With all the sm game hunters outthere the sametime as you? let alone duck/goose hunters and the kids out plinking with 22's and such? GET THIS... The game in NYS belongs to nys not you... oh no they are going to be scared by guns going off.. learn to hunt!! its hunting not shooting! There are a lot of hunter out there who hunt public land and are sucessfull every year! even with an orange army screwing up his patternable deer! These are proposals.... and if they go into effect or even a portion go into effect i for one will be happy for increases opportunity for my myself and others.we pay alot for our licences it would be nice to get more oppournity to use them.

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I've seen more deer pushed around by kids on 4 wheelers than i have by muzzleloader hunters! lets see most hunters hunt from an elevated position, leaves still on trees and hot and buggy, so most likely morning and evening hunts will be in order. probably over fields, 4 days during the week. I really don't see a problem with this compared to opening day of rifle when there will be 3 to 4 times as many hunters in the woods, shooting at anything(doe or buck) some with more than they shold have had to drink the night before. Than a guy with one shot who is after doe.If your that worried about being shot don a orange hat/vest tie a ribbon to a tree...deer are colorblind.(the camo we wear really just makes us feel good)  My guess is he will be a lot more sure of his target having only one shot. As for the youth hunt...3 days maybe 20,000 kids tops? spread out over nys still having to hunt with an adult/mentor?                                                                                              I really don't know how you doom and gloom people ever go hunting at all? I think you would be to afraid to leave your house! With all the sm game hunters outthere the sametime as you? let alone duck/goose hunters and the kids out plinking with 22's and such? GET THIS... The game in NYS belongs to nys not you... oh no they are going to be scared by guns going off.. learn to hunt!! its hunting not shooting! There are a lot of hunter out there who hunt public land and are sucessfull every year! even with an orange army screwing up his patternable deer! These are proposals.... and if they go into effect or even a portion go into effect i for one will be happy for increases opportunity for my myself and others.we pay alot for our licences it would be nice to get more oppournity to use them.

This is purely for my own knowledge, but do you hunt with a bow?

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I am bowhunter first and foremost, but i have the abiltiy to see the benifits and can appreciate others prefrences for their choice of weapon. I also understand that the game and woods are not mine and others have the right to be there same as i do. :(

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but they will be pushing the deer around and have a much farther range w/a .50 cal bullet, than turkey and bird hunters, and be shooting level w/the horizon, unlike bird hunters.

So the deer dont get pushed by the small game guys with their dogs pushing through the woods and kicking the bushes? What about the 22 rounds being sent up into the trees at squirrels, etc etc? I just dont agree with the doom and gloom I guess. Believe me, id rather have the woods to myself, I just dont buy into the opinion that 4 days of ml and a few youth days are going to turn it into opening day of gun season.

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As for muzzleloding i do that as well but if they allow it during bow i'd still bowhunt..a doe with a bow tops any doe i have taken with any gun.as for the longer range..i'm more  afraid of a kid plinking with a 22 (lot further range than a 300 grain lead weight pushed by a muzzleloader)and rapid multiple shots or worse yet the weekend warriors that are out trying out their new ak/rifle/pistol without a proper backstop (just using a tree,or maybe shooting cans).than i am of a single shot weapon pointed at a deer.

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I've seen more deer pushed around by kids on 4 wheelers than i have by muzzleloader hunters! lets see most hunters hunt from an elevated position, leaves still on trees and hot and buggy, so most likely morning and evening hunts will be in order. probably over fields, 4 days during the week. I really don't see a problem with this compared to opening day of rifle when there will be 3 to 4 times as many hunters in the woods, shooting at anything(doe or buck) some with more than they shold have had to drink the night before. Than a guy with one shot who is after doe.If your that worried about being shot don a orange hat/vest tie a ribbon to a tree...deer are colorblind.(the camo we wear really just makes us feel good)  My guess is he will be a lot more sure of his target having only one shot. As for the youth hunt...3 days maybe 20,000 kids tops? spread out over nys still having to hunt with an adult/mentor?                                                                                              I really don't know how you doom and gloom people ever go hunting at all? I think you would be to afraid to leave your house! With all the sm game hunters outthere the sametime as you? let alone duck/goose hunters and the kids out plinking with 22's and such? GET THIS... The game in NYS belongs to nys not you... oh no they are going to be scared by guns going off.. learn to hunt!! its hunting not shooting! There are a lot of hunter out there who hunt public land and are sucessfull every year! even with an orange army screwing up his patternable deer! These are proposals.... and if they go into effect or even a portion go into effect i for one will be happy for increases opportunity for my myself and others.we pay alot for our licences it would be nice to get more oppournity to use them.

A++ G-man

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Why dont they do these special seasons the first week of October and leave the rest of the seasons like they are? Sounds easy enough to me.

I could swallow that alot easlier than in the middle of October. Good idea, if it has to be.

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So if they had the youth hunt on 8th thrught the 10th and muzzleloader on the 11th throught the 14th and left the opener on the 15th as it basically is now...you are good with that? I am blown away that they are proposing adding 2 weeks to bow and I am hearing bitching. They aren't taking anything away from what we have now and still not good enough ...huh?

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NO. How about the first saturday in October? This year it would be 10/1,2,3.  followed by the ML season if necessary. They always complain about the cold weather anyways so let them hunt with shorts on. 

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I think they took columbus day weekend for the youth hunt as they won't have school and can hunt the extra day... plus my friends that are teachers get a free long weekend to hunt with bow!!

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The youth hunt would run concurrent with bow being open(same as muzzle if needed)... how many of you think your going to be overrun with parents taking their kid out for the youth hunt? dec say 16,000 but lets say 20,000. I rather have a chance with my bow 1st of october on the bachlor group of bucks i've watched all summer than wait till they break up by the middle of october.. and if a kid happens to get one ..great!! i'm sure he/she'll remember it forever!! I will hunt with kids in the woods or without i'm not concerned about their shots scaring them.. I have more game scared by the influx of hunters the week before the season opens driving 4 wheelers/hanging stands/fixing stands/target-sighting in shooting/and scouting/ even just starting up their wood stoves to heat their camps/slamming car doors/spotlighting/ ect...yet i alway seem to get my deer....

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I dont really understand the argument against guns in the woods for the early ml season. You guys do realize we already have turkey, waterfowl and small game hunters out there with us during bow season now, right? The ml hhnters wont be flinging 5 in a row like some of the shotgunners and rifle guys do.

You are absolutely correct, and don't think for a minute that that gun disturbance doesn't put deer on an evasive pattern if you happen to be trying to hunt in an area where a gang of small-game hunters set up. And the more gunners you have in the woods, regardless of what they are after, the more likely that is to happen. Months of patterning and scouting can be trashed just by the sound of nearby gunfire. And all that is without the gunners actually heading for deer habitat in particular. Now add to that a group of gun hunters who are going out of their way to invade deer bedding and feeding areas specifically, and pretty soon you have something similar to regular gun season.

A lot of this perception is a result of where a bowhunter is hunting. If you have your own private and posted land or exclusive permission to bowhunt a certain area, or maybe just a honey-hole that most gunners have not found yet, you may not be too concerned about additional gun-hunting. Probably under those conditions, you may not even notice the difference. And if you do, you have the control of the situation to clear the woods out anytime you become bothered by all the commotion. However those of us who hunt state land or open private land see an entirely different picture. Last year on three different occasions, I had an afternoon hunt completely wrecked by a pair of squirrel hunters who sat not far from my stand and popped away at squirrels about every 15 minutes until it was time to quit hunting. Absolutely they had a perfect right to be there. It was just my bad luck. I had been zeroing in on a pretty impressive buck and he either went nocturnal or shifted his area for the remainder of the season because of that activity. At any rate whatever I knew about him was trashed. That doesn't happen all that often because there isn't that many small game hunters these days. But depending on how popular these early gun seasons become, I can see that scenario beginning to play out more often than anyone would like to think possible.

We know from regular gun season that gunfire and people invading specific deer habitat put deer into a completely different survival mode. Anyone with more than a few years of bow and gun deer hunting under their belt has seen that happen. The closer a bow season comes to duplicating those carnival conditions, the more bowhunting becomes an activity of blind luck rather than a hunt that uses scouting, patterning, and hunting skill.

How popular will this early muzzleloader season become? .... well you need a crystal ball to make a guess at that one, but if you listen to all the hype about the necessity of an early season, you have to believe that either it is being way over-sold, or that there will be a significant impact. 

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