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Man I got all excited thought this was another antler restriction thread. Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

You really come up with some pearls once in a while.

There have been many of your post that you talk about profit. That seems to be your driving motivation. The point I was making was that deer farms are mainly for profit and if anyone has something to gain by distorting the truth, it's the deer farmers. You have no ground to stand on when saying that QDMA and B&C are not non-profit organizations. I am sure in this day in age where everyone is under scrutiny, if they didn't meet the criteria they would have their non-profit status revoked. This is a forum for individuals who like to hunt. The vast majority if not 99% of us believe in fair chase. Deer farming does not fall under that category. Sorry if you believe it does, but you represent a very small minority.

Raed it Biran hrtus need beer

I just bought a real bow!

then I'm definitely getting one.

Button bucks only.

IT IS EASIER! It may not be as easy as they think, but there's no debate that it's not easier.

Aimed like I rifle is the only big advantage I see.. my bow has 80% let off anI use a mechanical release with a trigger . For those that shoot traditionally that advantage I have is the same as a crossbow is to me.... still takes woodsmanship to get into range..something that's lacking in a lot of hunters today.

He will not listen to the facts or details but here they are The QDMA Forums, 1% of the members use the forums. 1% of the members. Some are upset over an issue... I am sure some will leave. High fenced hunts. For the third time.... They never said they were against high fenced hunts if legal and ethical. Read the position statement here: http://www.qdma.com/news/faq-qdmas-stance-on-captive-deer-breeding They have in the past auctioned a high fence hunt, thousands of acres in an enclosure. This is not their bread and butter. Here are numbers I just received this morning about QDMA Growth: Grassroots membership increase by 34.14% (14,000)o Sponsor memberships increase by 36.82% (680)o New Branches formed, increased by 105% (41) Four Season Whitetails, Mike Kerry, has made repeated comments about profit, over and over. He hopes CWD spreads all over NY state. This is not a responsible member of the community and certainly would be shamed by the deer farming community if they found out about his comments. He sees the QDMA as being threatened by Deer Farms... this is a joke. The QDMA doesnt see Deer farms as competition The QDMA is about improving the Habitat, being good stewards of the land, being a manager instead of just a consumer. It is about youth hunting, improving hunting, solid conservation of the whitetail, and protecting the whitetail and our hunting heritage. Why would any of us, who enjoy doing QDM on our property and getting lucky to have a chance at harvesting a nice wild older buck vs going to a shooting pen and shooting a pet? Sure there are some in our instant gratification society that will choose deer farms or canned hunts. I have asked him over and over what he does in the means of conservation and giving back as a individual and as the deer farming community... he doesn't answer but tells us about profits. Tells us he hopes CWD spreads, and thinks we are idiots, while if you take the time to read his comments you can see he is just making things worse for himself and deer farmers.

And BTW....I don't see this recruiting any new hunters. It will recruit more gun hunters into archery season and that's all.

I have no dog in this fight as I will continue to hunt with my compound for as long as I'm able to draw one back but I'll go out on a limb here and say this article was written by a crossbow enthusiast. Fact #1 made me LOL

Please stop with the name calling. BTW, its schmuck, not smuck

Keep it clean please... Don't ask for much around here. If you want to have a one on one deal do it off the site, you can exchange emails via PM.

4-3-14 I had some time to kill today, so I decided I better get another hike in before we get snowed on again! I shot up to the power lines and did a run down the wooded edges. It didn't take long before I spotted my first antler of the day! Just a little oldie 4pt so I wasn't overly excited but it would do. I wasn't planning on hiking long anyhow, so I figured I head for home. I headed out the same way I went in but decided to go around a thicket instead of going through it like I did on the way in. When I got around the side and looked up, I saw this little guy staring back at me! Now I was pumped and ready to hike on! I shot up to the orchard and soon as I got there I spotted a horn. I had to look closely because it turned out to be two horns ALMOST touching! Match 6pt! Probably close to one of my favorite set ATL's now ever! From above just as they layed! That was it for the day! Still lots of snow in the woods, but the rain on the way should take care of that soon. I need about 10 more hikes like this to salvage the season! Also adding another dead doe and scooped up another little old skull. Here's the days haul! Antlers- 9 Sets- 2 Dead bucks- 4 Dead doe/fawns- 11

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goBXdYIOqUY

And what prevented you from archery hunting in NY? The use of archery equipment?

are you sure? none of the other 6 threads mentioned anything about it.....

I would have though you would have suggested "Discharge limits now 150 for Real Bows only" I give you an B+ for suggesting a good title.

Here's another fact: Most guys will agree a x-bow to be a cross between a gun AND a bow soooo..... Why not have x-bow ONLY season, while getting rid of the archery, ML, and regular firearms season entirely! Combine the best of both worlds into one, and no one will have anything to bitch about! I always new there had to be some kind of middle ground that would appeal to us all. I gotta go send me another letter now to my buddy Mr. C. to see if he can pull any strings to bring us all back together here,lol

No, it's got nothing to do with numbers. It has to do with attitudes and the fact that if you put a group of gun owners in a room an argument over something will break out inside of 15 minutes. Try to get them to work together to oust a politician, and immediately one of the leaders will stand up and throw the rest of the gun owners and their whole cause under the bus just to make himself look like the rational, mature, and reasoned one. There's something wrong with us folks. I never see any of these antis making public statements that criticize anyone in their organization or membership. Their dirty laundry never gets aired on the streets. They don't get involved in self-aggrandizing moves and public statements that make their membership sound like a bunch of hill-billys. And guess which side of the issue is making all the advances today? I've got to say that I really am not taking this Tom King stuff very well. I'm frustrated and disappointed and really not feeling very optimistic. We have it in our power to impact gun rights issues for decades to come and this is what our leadership pulls just mere months before the elections.

This is spinning away from the original point and I am not sure if you are intentionally misunderstanding me or not. To clarify, I do not think laws should be intentionally vague. I believe they should not be overly specific as they are meant to cover a range of acts. Murder is illegal. I do not think there should be separate laws for murder by gun, by knife, by pencil, by paper clip. I do not think there should be separate laws to cover murder on Monday vs Murder on Tuesday. Of course, I also believe there should be an exception for murder in self-defense. I just don't think it is such an easy task to write a single law to cover every possible situation. I also think that there should be room for common sense interpretation in a law. Look at some of these school kids getting suspended and expelled for having a pop-tart in the shape of a gun or pointing a finger at another kid and saying "bang." This is a direct result of the type of "all encompassing" rule you are championing. It spells out the infractions to cover all instances, has a "zero tolerance" provision and no allowance for circumstances. No interpretation, nothing vague, no trial needed. I guess we are on different sides of this issue. I have been on rules committees for various organizations and have seen the side effects of "well intended" rules. It sounds easy to make a rule, until you see what happens to it in the wild. Fortunately, we were a local organization and any rule mistakes we made didn't ruin lives. Laws, even good ones, have unintended consequences. I submit it is virtually impossible to write a law/rule that will cover every possible situation and circumstance. Our founders recognized this fact which is why our system is the way it is. "Better nine guilty go free than one innocent be convicted." Courts are cluttered sorting out situations because people don't agree. That's what the courts do. Sometimes the law is vague, sometimes it is not clear if the law applies, sometimes people don't agree with the law. Sometimes, there is not law to cover the exact situation (which isn't always a bad thing - we have too many laws already.) I am much more comfortable with a judicial system and jury of my peers settling a dispute than I am with a legislator - with no knowledge of the specific situation - predetermining the outcome. It would be nice if life were black and white and there was a law to cover every possible circumstance for everything we do. Actually, I don't think that would be nice - it would suck. I really think we would be better off without government writing a rule for every little thing. A little more reliance on common sense would be refreshing. Back to the original question - I tried to find something regarding pointing a weapon at someone else (which was the scenario you claim would be "non-actionable" for someone "target shooting" in their backyard.) The closest I could find to a definitive answer is here: http://www.lawqa.com/qa/what-crime-and-sentence-for-pointing-bb-gun-at-someone The question is regarding pointing a BB gun at someone, and a NY Lawyer answers: "You would probably be charged with Menacing, which is an A misdemeanor. You can get up to a year in jail or three years probation, but if you retain a good criminal lawyer you may be able to get a Disorderly Conduct with a fine." So I still maintain there is a law and penalty for such an action, which doesn't require anyone to get hurt before it is invoked. Again, I am a big fan on enforcing some of the many laws we already have rather than writing new ones to cover the same situation.

You obviously are not the majority of bowhunters. Most bowhunters need to practice much more often to be proficient at killing deer in a hunting situation. Xbow makes that practice need much less.

Ya think? You try telling him that and see how far it gets you!

Hunting is so great on your 700 acres that you go to Letchworth every year to kill deer. Makes sense.

This thread is annoying. That is all.

These lines must have come from an someone who rides the short bus. That's two clear advantages in my book. Not one.

I have never shot a compound bow, it wasn't my cup of tea. I have always had a recurve from the first day I started shooting. I shoot naturally, off the shelf. I started with a 28 pound PSE and my 2nd and 3rd bow are both older than me. I have a 1967.5 Bear Super Kodiak this a Cadillac of all bows and a 1973 Browning wasp that I wanted for a stand but is just too short of a draw for me. I will never upgrade to a modern bow because I like the idea of a primitive weapon. My Super K has a beaver tail leather handle and Rattlesnake limb covers. She is a true gem to me.

Just as I thought....written by a crossbow enthusiast. Who coulda guessed that? I'll bet the anti crossbow guys could write 10 facts to make their argument too and the funny thing is, #1 would be the same in both articles!

He is correct. You cannot piggy-back with other issues.

I will wait until they get the speed up to 500 fps before I buy one . The manufacturers aren't that far away from that now but they had better hurry up as I am not getting any younger ( 72 ) . I could use by Blaze Orange Walker as a rest .

when enough of these filter into the state, they will change the legislation to make these illegal. We are not sticking it to Andy. He will just take these away too. UNLESS WE GET RID OF HIM IN NOVEMBER.

I just bought a crossbow. Crud.

Your talking about a demand for venison meat bought by people who don't hunt. I am talking about hunters ethics. And again you are bringing the argument back to profit. And because there is a demand that makes it right? Drug dealers make a lot of money as well, I guess thats ok too.

Way to go Wooly! Really cool ATL. With that snow on the ground still, it appears you have a full month of prime shed hunting left...

$1000 for an super-ugly pump action rifle? I think we really do need a better way to get back at Cuomo .... lol.

Well look, I have been told there is an ignore button on here. So why don't you go off and check it out. Who the hell needs your whining and random attacks and crying about how you have difficulty in reading. If you have a problem with me then either leave or find that ignore feature because I can assure you, I ain't going nowhere.

If you don't like it, you can leave! Try bowsite forum, lots of guided hunts to read about there! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

First of all let's straighten out the mis-statements about numbers of bow hunters today vs. the number of bowhunters at any time in the past. Bow season participation has never been a declining activity and has been increasing steadily in numbers of bowhunters since it's inception. There was never a time when there were twice as many bowhunters as there are today. I am repeatedly adding emphasis to the "bow" part of hunting because it is strictly a bowhunting issue that we are talking about here, with crossbow introduction having nothing to do with gun hunter stats. So I just wanted to clear that up before anyone took that "twice as many" statement seriously. As relates to the discussions here that stat is irrelevant. Adding crossbows into bow season will have no positive effect on gun season participants. So we will continue to see gun hunter and overall hunting population slides. I think that one issue that keeps this crossbow rift going is this idea that everywhere, there is an unlimited amount of hunting land and absolutely no reason for excess hunter density anywhere during bow season. If I hunted only land that was being way underutilized, or that I could simply keep other people off of by decree and with posted signs, I might have a different opinion on crossbows too. In terms of crossbows adding to the overall hunter numbers, I'll believe that when I see it. Yes I think there will be a significant shift from gun hunter to crossbow hunters. And that's all it will be is a redistribution of season participants. If I am wrong about that, I will be happily surprised and freely admit that I was wrong. But unfortunately I believe I will be proven correct.

Seems to be a lot of posts lately that look like this......

I like to put my target right near my neighbors house, especially their windows. It makes it so I concentrate more on not missing.

Yeah I am done shooting in my yard I got I little room in my basement I will use that then use the range when I can I am thankful no one was hurt. I can't believe how easily the passes thru my target. The police are not pursuing the matter they spoke to me today that is a relief. I just have to make this right with my neighbor and fix the hole. Thank you guys I know I messed up badly! But I hope nothing like this happens to anyone else.

Exactly.. much like the Heroin and Meth industry... lots of money and two growing industries that don't make for honorable livelihoods... It's not even the hunting behind a fence that I have a problem with as much as the Frankenstein like genetic mutants that are artificially created by some of these farmers for the sake of profit. But even worse are those that patronize these "evil laboratories" creating a market for such a perverted use of an animal. First, to claim that this business has any claim as helpful to conservation and the future of hunting is ridiculous... then proclaiming how deer farms can somehow be the savior of a threatened whitetail population is just delusional. One can say that as many times as one likes and still be the only one that believes it.

Can't find 'em if you don't look, right Wooly? Spring will be here soon....

I don't know what the heck kinda hawk this is, but the thing was almost snow white even on it's back, He caught me by surprise today with a low fly-bye, but I wasn't anticipating a bird in flight shot. He's been hanging around one of the goldenrod fields I like to hike, so hopefully I can get some closeer pics and find out what he is. Anybody know off the top of your head?

Don't let it bother you Wooley, perhaps we just have more of them down here along the Pennsyltucky Frontier...<<grin>>.. HOWEVER, as a lifelong wildlife observer, there is a phenomenon I have noticed more than once, with more than one species. You will spot a bird that you have NEVER seen before in all of your time outdoors. You will identify it...And then after you know what you are looking at/for, you will begin to see that species on a regular basis. An example...Until I was perhaps 40 years old, I was unaware of the presence of the red bellied woodpecker. Then I had one land on my suet feeder. What a brilliant, unmistakable bird ! After I had seen my "first" one and learned to recognize it's habits and calls, I began to see and hear them all over the place. Now I see them on nearly a daily basis when I am in the woods.. I think that sometimes until you are aware that a certain species exists in your area, you sometimes tend to mistake them for other species that you are familiar with. By the same token I suspect that I mistook rough legged hawks, who are winter visitors here but spend the spring/summer/fall in the artic, for red tails , and mistook short eared owls ( another winter visitor) for some kind of hawk, until I learned of thier existence and learned the fieldmarks of identifying them. Enjoying nature is a lifetime learning experience.

I don't think they ever banned selling 10 round mags.....just that you couldn't load more than 7 into them.

People should know who owns what property . If they don't know who the owner is and don't have permission to be there , then stay the hell out !

Its such a shame that in this great country we have to have mega corporations and dirty politicians decide on how they are going to limit the amazing technology in healthcare that's available today. I say pay the people who deliver the care and develop the technology and limit the huge profits big pharma and the insurance giants can make to cut costs to the patient/sick person. Notice I didn't say consumer. If other country's can do it why cant we. And that evil socialized medicine argument is hogwash because counties like Germany and France are setting the global pace in healthcare and medical technology today and although things are improving we are still behind.

They dropped?