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Man I got all excited thought this was another antler restriction thread. Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

You really come up with some pearls once in a while.

There have been many of your post that you talk about profit. That seems to be your driving motivation. The point I was making was that deer farms are mainly for profit and if anyone has something to gain by distorting the truth, it's the deer farmers. You have no ground to stand on when saying that QDMA and B&C are not non-profit organizations. I am sure in this day in age where everyone is under scrutiny, if they didn't meet the criteria they would have their non-profit status revoked. This is a forum for individuals who like to hunt. The vast majority if not 99% of us believe in fair chase. Deer farming does not fall under that category. Sorry if you believe it does, but you represent a very small minority.

Raed it Biran hrtus need beer

I just bought a real bow!

then I'm definitely getting one.

Button bucks only.

IT IS EASIER! It may not be as easy as they think, but there's no debate that it's not easier.

Aimed like I rifle is the only big advantage I see.. my bow has 80% let off anI use a mechanical release with a trigger . For those that shoot traditionally that advantage I have is the same as a crossbow is to me.... still takes woodsmanship to get into range..something that's lacking in a lot of hunters today.

He will not listen to the facts or details but here they are The QDMA Forums, 1% of the members use the forums. 1% of the members. Some are upset over an issue... I am sure some will leave. High fenced hunts. For the third time.... They never said they were against high fenced hunts if legal and ethical. Read the position statement here: http://www.qdma.com/news/faq-qdmas-stance-on-captive-deer-breeding They have in the past auctioned a high fence hunt, thousands of acres in an enclosure. This is not their bread and butter. Here are numbers I just received this morning about QDMA Growth: Grassroots membership increase by 34.14% (14,000)o Sponsor memberships increase by 36.82% (680)o New Branches formed, increased by 105% (41) Four Season Whitetails, Mike Kerry, has made repeated comments about profit, over and over. He hopes CWD spreads all over NY state. This is not a responsible member of the community and certainly would be shamed by the deer farming community if they found out about his comments. He sees the QDMA as being threatened by Deer Farms... this is a joke. The QDMA doesnt see Deer farms as competition The QDMA is about improving the Habitat, being good stewards of the land, being a manager instead of just a consumer. It is about youth hunting, improving hunting, solid conservation of the whitetail, and protecting the whitetail and our hunting heritage. Why would any of us, who enjoy doing QDM on our property and getting lucky to have a chance at harvesting a nice wild older buck vs going to a shooting pen and shooting a pet? Sure there are some in our instant gratification society that will choose deer farms or canned hunts. I have asked him over and over what he does in the means of conservation and giving back as a individual and as the deer farming community... he doesn't answer but tells us about profits. Tells us he hopes CWD spreads, and thinks we are idiots, while if you take the time to read his comments you can see he is just making things worse for himself and deer farmers.

And BTW....I don't see this recruiting any new hunters. It will recruit more gun hunters into archery season and that's all.

I have no dog in this fight as I will continue to hunt with my compound for as long as I'm able to draw one back but I'll go out on a limb here and say this article was written by a crossbow enthusiast. Fact #1 made me LOL

Please stop with the name calling. BTW, its schmuck, not smuck

Keep it clean please... Don't ask for much around here. If you want to have a one on one deal do it off the site, you can exchange emails via PM.

4-3-14 I had some time to kill today, so I decided I better get another hike in before we get snowed on again! I shot up to the power lines and did a run down the wooded edges. It didn't take long before I spotted my first antler of the day! Just a little oldie 4pt so I wasn't overly excited but it would do. I wasn't planning on hiking long anyhow, so I figured I head for home. I headed out the same way I went in but decided to go around a thicket instead of going through it like I did on the way in. When I got around the side and looked up, I saw this little guy staring back at me! Now I was pumped and ready to hike on! I shot up to the orchard and soon as I got there I spotted a horn. I had to look closely because it turned out to be two horns ALMOST touching! Match 6pt! Probably close to one of my favorite set ATL's now ever! From above just as they layed! That was it for the day! Still lots of snow in the woods, but the rain on the way should take care of that soon. I need about 10 more hikes like this to salvage the season! Also adding another dead doe and scooped up another little old skull. Here's the days haul! Antlers- 9 Sets- 2 Dead bucks- 4 Dead doe/fawns- 11

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goBXdYIOqUY

I would have though you would have suggested "Discharge limits now 150 for Real Bows only" I give you an B+ for suggesting a good title.

I started bow hunting with a Wing recurve (45 lb) that I bought used for $25. Never got that good with it. Never killed a deer with it. Graduated to compound ( Darton SL-50) and then a Hoyt Superslam. Killed 6 deer ( 5 bucks and a doe ) and a cow elk, then gave up the bow, because I never really got that good with it. I killed deer with several different shotguns..An Eastern Arms 16 gauge single shot, a Win M37 12 gauge single shot, a Win 37 20 gauge single shot, a Rem 11-48 16 gauge auto, a Rem M870 12 gauge skeet gun, a Rem 870 Wingmaster slug gun, an Ithaca Deerslayer 12 gauge slug gun , a Rem 1100 20 gauge skeet gun, and a Rem 1100 12 gauge deer gun with fully rifled cantilever barrel. All of the shotguns had either a bead sight or open sights, except the Rem 1100 20 gauge, which had a Weaver 1X scope and the Rem 1100 12 gauge rifled barrel, which had a Weaver 2.5 x scope. Most of my shotgun deer were taken with the 1100s. I also killed a deer with a TC Contender pistol in .35 Rem, one with a TC Contender pistol in .356 Winchester, and 6 deer with a Rem XP-100 pistol in .260 Rem. I have only ever killed deer with one muzzleloader, a TC Hawken .50 cal that my ex wife bought me for my birthday in 1973. Used the issue open sights until my eyes got bad, and then installed a tang mounted peep sight, which still works for me. I have killed 15-20 deer ( including my best buck) and a 6x6 bull elk with it. I won't try to list all the rifles I have killed deer with, only the chamberings. I have shot deer with the .222 Rem, the 25-06, the .260 Rem, the .270 Win. the 7 x 57, the 7mm08, the .280 Rem, the 7mm Rem Mag, the 30-06 , the .35 rem, the .356 Win and the 9.3 x 62. Most of my rifle shot deer have been taken with the 7mm08 and the .280 Rem. Other than that I haven't had much experience deer hunting.. << grin>>...

I think thats the case with most things today.

Ya think? You try telling him that and see how far it gets you!

These lines must have come from an someone who rides the short bus. That's two clear advantages in my book. Not one.

Those 30 years were also before the internet, forums, online shopping that drop xbows on your door, and increased competition for hunting access. The rate of change is exponentially faster now. 30 years in that situation is more like 2-3 now.

Just as I thought....written by a crossbow enthusiast. Who coulda guessed that? I'll bet the anti crossbow guys could write 10 facts to make their argument too and the funny thing is, #1 would be the same in both articles!

He is correct. You cannot piggy-back with other issues.

I will wait until they get the speed up to 500 fps before I buy one . The manufacturers aren't that far away from that now but they had better hurry up as I am not getting any younger ( 72 ) . I could use by Blaze Orange Walker as a rest .

You truly are delusional.. show me one case where either QDMA or B&C used a high fence to put money in their coffer... all deer farms do is feed the demand of other deer farms... QDMA and B&C have nothing to do with deer farms... and never have

Way to go Wooly! Really cool ATL. With that snow on the ground still, it appears you have a full month of prime shed hunting left...

$1000 for an super-ugly pump action rifle? I think we really do need a better way to get back at Cuomo .... lol.

This happens upstate as well, and I don't mean Orange or Dutchess county. And this problem will grow because as I have said over and over, the FWS and DEC has outreach aimed at encouraging non hunters to recreate on public conservation lands. Also, the sport of bird watching is becoming organized and is growing in leaps and bounds and a percentage of birders do not like hunting. However, this is not the same issue as hunting 150 feet from a house - two different issues. I don't care if it is Long Island or Hamilton County the average person does not want anyone hunting that close to their house or out there setting up a stand at 5 am. I cant believe this is even debated.

Sweet matching set...I bet he dumps those during a snowstorm and they stayed locked under ice untouched! Good deal

FSW, your post seem to keep coming back to your profit, yet you claim other non-profit conservation groups distort the truth because money is power. Have you ever heard that people who are quick to accuse others of lying are normally inveterate liars themselves. It's part of being human to assume that others think like oneself.

Balling? Lol. Are we in a rap music video? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you don't like it, you can leave! Try bowsite forum, lots of guided hunts to read about there! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

When did you become the spokesman for the forum? Why don't you just go back to tooting your own horn about how great a world traveled hunter you are and let these threads progress without your disruption. And try not to throw your shoulder out of joint patting yourself on the back. I might also suggest that you take some remedial reading courses since you seem to have a difficulty in that area. Sorry to have thrown such an overwhelming challenge at you.

I was getting pretty good with my bow and set up some targets in my driveway. Lot's of land to work with - about 400-500 yards clear behind the targets and then woods going up a steep hill (about 800ft elevation) to create a natural berm. Plenty of room side to side to allow for something going wrong. Using several targets everything worked well. Then, the inevitable "miss" happened and an arrow flew past the targets. Having planned for this, there was no potential for disaster. What did amaze me is how far that arrow ended up traveling and how with how much force. We were shooting at a slight downward angle, but the arrow skidded along for another hundred yards or so and almost completely buried itself in the ground. It's never "just an arrow" or "just a .22" and something_ always goes off-plan. You can never have too much safety. Adequate backstopping is essential. All it takes is one shot to go off course and no one is 100% perfect.

First of all let's straighten out the mis-statements about numbers of bow hunters today vs. the number of bowhunters at any time in the past. Bow season participation has never been a declining activity and has been increasing steadily in numbers of bowhunters since it's inception. There was never a time when there were twice as many bowhunters as there are today. I am repeatedly adding emphasis to the "bow" part of hunting because it is strictly a bowhunting issue that we are talking about here, with crossbow introduction having nothing to do with gun hunter stats. So I just wanted to clear that up before anyone took that "twice as many" statement seriously. As relates to the discussions here that stat is irrelevant. Adding crossbows into bow season will have no positive effect on gun season participants. So we will continue to see gun hunter and overall hunting population slides. I think that one issue that keeps this crossbow rift going is this idea that everywhere, there is an unlimited amount of hunting land and absolutely no reason for excess hunter density anywhere during bow season. If I hunted only land that was being way underutilized, or that I could simply keep other people off of by decree and with posted signs, I might have a different opinion on crossbows too. In terms of crossbows adding to the overall hunter numbers, I'll believe that when I see it. Yes I think there will be a significant shift from gun hunter to crossbow hunters. And that's all it will be is a redistribution of season participants. If I am wrong about that, I will be happily surprised and freely admit that I was wrong. But unfortunately I believe I will be proven correct.

Great shots Wooly!!! That fox seems to like posing for the camera.

Seems to be a lot of posts lately that look like this......

They also laugh at all the east coasters that are scared to hunt out of state without being led around by a guide.

I like to put my target right near my neighbors house, especially their windows. It makes it so I concentrate more on not missing.

Exactly.. much like the Heroin and Meth industry... lots of money and two growing industries that don't make for honorable livelihoods... It's not even the hunting behind a fence that I have a problem with as much as the Frankenstein like genetic mutants that are artificially created by some of these farmers for the sake of profit. But even worse are those that patronize these "evil laboratories" creating a market for such a perverted use of an animal. First, to claim that this business has any claim as helpful to conservation and the future of hunting is ridiculous... then proclaiming how deer farms can somehow be the savior of a threatened whitetail population is just delusional. One can say that as many times as one likes and still be the only one that believes it.

Can't find 'em if you don't look, right Wooly? Spring will be here soon....

Don't let it bother you Wooley, perhaps we just have more of them down here along the Pennsyltucky Frontier...<<grin>>.. HOWEVER, as a lifelong wildlife observer, there is a phenomenon I have noticed more than once, with more than one species. You will spot a bird that you have NEVER seen before in all of your time outdoors. You will identify it...And then after you know what you are looking at/for, you will begin to see that species on a regular basis. An example...Until I was perhaps 40 years old, I was unaware of the presence of the red bellied woodpecker. Then I had one land on my suet feeder. What a brilliant, unmistakable bird ! After I had seen my "first" one and learned to recognize it's habits and calls, I began to see and hear them all over the place. Now I see them on nearly a daily basis when I am in the woods.. I think that sometimes until you are aware that a certain species exists in your area, you sometimes tend to mistake them for other species that you are familiar with. By the same token I suspect that I mistook rough legged hawks, who are winter visitors here but spend the spring/summer/fall in the artic, for red tails , and mistook short eared owls ( another winter visitor) for some kind of hawk, until I learned of thier existence and learned the fieldmarks of identifying them. Enjoying nature is a lifetime learning experience.

That would definitely simplify things a great deal as well as save landowners a lot o expense, time and effort.

I don't think they ever banned selling 10 round mags.....just that you couldn't load more than 7 into them.

People should know who owns what property . If they don't know who the owner is and don't have permission to be there , then stay the hell out !

I have to say, I found that a hell of a lot more amusing than I thought I would. Edit: The Papist / Virgil thing was gold.

Its such a shame that in this great country we have to have mega corporations and dirty politicians decide on how they are going to limit the amazing technology in healthcare that's available today. I say pay the people who deliver the care and develop the technology and limit the huge profits big pharma and the insurance giants can make to cut costs to the patient/sick person. Notice I didn't say consumer. If other country's can do it why cant we. And that evil socialized medicine argument is hogwash because counties like Germany and France are setting the global pace in healthcare and medical technology today and although things are improving we are still behind.

Same here, this is the first year we haven't had a 20% plus increase at my company. I have a close contractor friend who now has health insurance for him and family and 3 employees now, he had a preexisting condition (blood pressure high and cholesterol) and couldn't even get health insurance thru the private market at any cost, his health ins dropped him when they found out about his blood pressure after he paid them premiums for years. Now he has insurance and he is seeing a doctor on a regular basis. Some good some bad just like anything else I guess.

They dropped?