A sad day for New York hunters

[noodle one]

The sience majority of NY deer hunter have been left out to dry. The sad part is that it is not from organizations like PETA and others .it is coming from our own fraternity of selfish. selfcentered,and greedy NY so called deer hunters. A small group of people have cried so loud that they have gotten more DMZ areas put in AR . The advocates for AR have put a limit on others opportunities. The AR people think they are TV hunters , they think they are great hunters and tough luck to others who only want to deer hunt and harvest a deer. The hunting camp I belong to has 35 members with a doz. out of state hunters and we are lucky to see a deer, let alone a legal buck and that is in DMZ 40 , one of the new zones in AR. I have heard that some of the out of state hunters are giving up hunting in NY because of AR Most are saying it cost to much to sit in the woods knowing they will not see a legal buck and with no doe tags to boot, they are going to look else where. Some of people have been members for over 20 years. Thankyou advocates of AR ,you have gotten what you wanted by having fewer deer hunters in the woods so you can have the deer to yourselfs. If that is not selffish ,I don't know what you would call it. An other sad thing about AR is it is not good deer management and that is fact, don't believe me read up on it and find out for yourself. Another group of selfish greedy so called deer hunters are the NY Bowhunters coalition. They cry about everything. They don't want anyone in the woods in their season. They cried that the bow wasn't long enough, so NY gave them another two weeks and the NY Bowhunter turn around cried because NY wanted to have three days in their bow season to have a youth deer hunt. Come on you big cry babies. They cried about having crossbows during bow, they say that it is like carring a gun. Come on cry babies, I hunt with a bow and I can shoot my compound out to 40 yards as good or better than most crossbows. and as far as taking a deer it is like shooting ducks on a pond.

[Warren]

I agree with you 100%. I bet there are a lot more out there that agree with you too. Like you said, the silent majority. It's the old saying, the squeaky wheel gets greased.

[Early]

Good points.....Makes you wonder how the rest of us got overlooked!

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Did everyone voice their opinion when they had the chance or just sit back and wait for the outcome?

[Nomad]

I like what you said, I also like paragraphs...

[Doc]

Well, there ya go. The silent majority is indeed silent, aren't they? So what good are they? And who cares about their opinions and how they think the world is suffering? The fact is that the organizations that you are whining about are active, energetic, advocates for what they believe. If you don't like it then take your whining somewhere besides internet forums and play the game the way it is supposed to be played. Nobody cares that you don't have the spine to do anything but complain. I get a bit irked everytime I see these people claiming "Well gosh, their views don't represent me". Get over it ..... if there are so many people who disagree with ARs and the NYB views then stop your crying and get involved like those people did. If you can't work inside of those groups then start your own. Put your damn money and effort where your mouth is instead of just moaning about those that do.

I'm sorry if I appear to be coming on a little strong about this, but it is just something that finally had to be said. Enough of this worthless bashing. If you have such strong feelings about these issues then do something useful and worthwhile about it.

[fasteddie]

Right on Doc .

If people don't like the ways things are working , get involved and make changes . Spend your time , money , energy , etc and make things happen . Write letters , have meetings , do whatever is necessary to make changes . Just complaining about the way things are isn't going to cut it !

[Skillet]

I agree with you 100%. I bet there are a lot more out there that agree with you too. Like you said, the silent majority. It's the old saying, the squeaky wheel gets greased.

The squeaky wheel usually ends up getting kicked.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Well, there ya go. The silent majority is indeed silent, aren't they? So what good are they? And who cares about their opinions and how they think the world is suffering? The fact is that the organizations that you are whining about are active, energetic, advocates for what they believe. If you don't like it then take your whining somewhere besides internet forums and play the game the way it is supposed to be played. Nobody cares that you don't have the spine to do anything but complain. I get a bit irked everytime I see these people claiming "Well gosh, their views don't represent me". Get over it ..... if there are so many people who disagree with ARs and the NYB views then stop your crying and get involved like those people did. If you can't work inside of those groups then start your own. Put your damn money and effort where your mouth is instead of just moaning about those that do.

I'm sorry if I appear to be coming on a little strong about this, but it is just something that finally had to be said. Enough of this worthless bashing. If you have such strong feelings about these issues then do something useful and worthwhile about it.

People are, in fact, doing just that at this point, which is why things are changing.

Seems to me that the NYB has or is very close to losing their battle against the youth season, as the Governor has not yet signed their bill, and it will end up as a pocket veto.

[NFA-ADK]

Personaly I feel the age structure of NY's herds are very young. Will AR restrictions fix this? I do not know... The fact that you do not get to shoot a deer for a few years in your area should be of little consequenses, yet many make these AR restrictions a easy excuse to quite hunting, well guese what any excuse will work... This is a big state with much land for hunting, if you really need to bag a deer go to another area with NO restrictions... OR get involved and express your oppinion, start a group or join a group with similar intrest...

I understand your complaints yet I feel most hunters could care less about the deer heard and are more concerned with being able to shoot a deer... And that is why I could care less about AR restrictions, personaly I feel they would help the heard...

In so far as being in the woods with other hunters for other game, well I understand 1st hand why the bow hunters in FULL CAMO would not want a bunch or orange army guys hunting the same area and clipping off rounds. I was running out of the woods last year from other BO hunters... So yea personaly I feel they should separate seasons so you DO NOT have a guy in full camo with a bow and another guy with a shot gun next to his black powder hunting for bear. Instead of complaining I just go back deeper in the woods during the weekend warior days...

You call this selfish yet I just feel most hunters are selfish and could care less about the heard, they just want to be able to shoot something... And if they can not, well then I will just quite seems to be the attitude... Sounds selfish to me...

You call these AR restrictions harmfull but if NY hunters start to take a better class of deer in these area's and the animals get to a older age structor and the heard is healthy, well that's what I am about.

No bucks to shoot at in your area? 35 members, ok do you have over 1000 achers to hunt at least? 35 people I would say you would need at least 3,000 mimimum. Or are you stuffing 35 hunters in a 300 acher lot? Then complaining thier are no deer to hunt? Just because you do not see deer does not mean they are not thier...

I am sorry but if a AR restriction forces you to quite hunting in NY so be it... You were looking for a excuse anyway. ANd to say: "it cost to much to sit in the woods knowing they will not see a legal buck and with no doe tags to boot, they are going to look else where." Sounds like another excuse to stop hunting that area just because thier chances of shooting something are limited... With 35 people trampling all over your property I am not surprised you have people leaving... And that last statement is just a bunch of BS. Nothing in hunting is guaranteed, even the OTHER place they decied to hunt... Unless fence hunting is your thing...

[Skillet]

NFA-ADK- New hunters need to have shooting opportunities in order to remain interested. Newbies are not going to stay interested if they can't harvest deer, period. Were you a trophy hunter when you started? Did you pass up 1.5's? If so, give yourself a big pat on the back, because apparently you feel you accomplished something. Sure, seasoned hunters may understand not having as many opportunities while the supposed benefits from AR develop. (I think AR is bunk, but that is besides the point) But newbies will just walk away, and that is a problem. I think it's a huge loss for us to lose hunter numbers, no matter what the reason. Something that is trivial to you, may be a deal breaker for someone else. Go to another state, really? Wow.

Edited September 4, 2012 by Skillet

[Doc]

People are, in fact, doing just that at this point, which is why things are changing.

Seems to me that the NYB has or is very close to losing their battle against the youth season, as the Governor has not yet signed their bill, and it will end up as a pocket veto.

This thread was not about one single issue, it was a rant about entire organizations. Apparently the NYB is to be looked at as some kind of evil empire and those who believe in AR should have no right to organize and advocate their beliefs. Yes it is the so-called silent majority again who whine a lot about those who convert their beliefs into action, but don't have enough passion of their own to replace these organizations or sway their beliefs. It's a whole lot easier to sit back on some forum and snipe at the efforts of others than to try to change or replace them. That is a symptom that a lot in the hunting community have .... a lot of whining and damn little action supporting their beliefs. So I have little tolerance for those that just want to sit back and throw stones without doing anything really constructive.

[steve863]

Get over it ..... if there are so many people who disagree with ARs and the NYB views then stop your crying and get involved like those people did. If you can't work inside of those groups then start your own. Put your damn money and effort where your mouth is instead of just moaning about those that do.

I'm sorry if I appear to be coming on a little strong about this, but it is just something that finally had to be said. Enough of this worthless bashing. If you have such strong feelings about these issues then do something useful and worthwhile about it.

Maybe some of you ought to read the DEC report where it summarized it's findings on the feedback it got from the public when AR's where proposed for the new areas. The "sportmans's" groups who were pushing for AR's flooded the DEC with copies of the same damned letter, most of the letters unsigned. How is a person to compete with such nonsense?? Easy for you guys to say "get involved". I have no doubt these "sportsmans" groups also greased a few DEC palms to get what they wanted. The shananigans involved here were more than most of us could compete with. As noodle one noted in his original post. The desires of a few with influences in the right places screwed the rest of us.

Edited September 4, 2012 by steve863

[Doc]

Maybe some of you ought to read the DEC report where it summarized it's findings on the feedback it got from the public when AR's where proposed for the new areas. The "sportmans's" groups who were pushing for AR's flooded the DEC with copies of the same damned letter, most of the letters unsigned. How is a person to compete with such nonsense?? Easy for you guys to say "get involved". I have no doubt these "sportsmans" groups also greased a few DEC palms to get what they wanted. The shananigans involved here were more than most of us could compete with. As noodle one noted in his original post. The desires of a few with influences in the right places screwed the rest of us.

Oh for crying out loud. Now we start with the conspiracy stories. The DEC supposedly accepted tons of unsigned input and you are blaming AR groups? What is the matter with you people. You will find any kind of silly story to justify maintaining your ability to simply lay back and stay uninvolved. The only thing that empowers any of these organizations is the unwillingness of the whiners to actually get off their butt and take them down or replace them. That's how the desires of the few influences the situations of this so-called "silent majority".

[Doewhacker]

The true sad part is we let politics and politicians decide our huntings laws now, what a croc.

[steve863]

Personaly I feel the age structure of NY's herds are very young. Will AR restrictions fix this? I do not know... The fact that you do not get to shoot a deer for a few years in your area should be of little consequenses, yet many make these AR restrictions a easy excuse to quite hunting, well guese what any excuse will work... This is a big state with much land for hunting, if you really need to bag a deer go to another area with NO restrictions... OR get involved and express your oppinion, start a group or join a group with similar intrest...

I understand your complaints yet I feel most hunters could care less about the deer heard and are more concerned with being able to shoot a deer... And that is why I could care less about AR restrictions, personaly I feel they would help the heard...

In so far as being in the woods with other hunters for other game, well I understand 1st hand why the bow hunters in FULL CAMO would not want a bunch or orange army guys hunting the same area and clipping off rounds. I was running out of the woods last year from other BO hunters... So yea personaly I feel they should separate seasons so you DO NOT have a guy in full camo with a bow and another guy with a shot gun next to his black powder hunting for bear. Instead of complaining I just go back deeper in the woods during the weekend warior days...

You call this selfish yet I just feel most hunters are selfish and could care less about the heard, they just want to be able to shoot something... And if they can not, well then I will just quite seems to be the attitude... Sounds selfish to me...

You call these AR restrictions harmfull but if NY hunters start to take a better class of deer in these area's and the animals get to a older age structor and the heard is healthy, well that's what I am about.

No bucks to shoot at in your area? 35 members, ok do you have over 1000 achers to hunt at least? 35 people I would say you would need at least 3,000 mimimum. Or are you stuffing 35 hunters in a 300 acher lot? Then complaining thier are no deer to hunt? Just because you do not see deer does not mean they are not thier...

I am sorry but if a AR restriction forces you to quite hunting in NY so be it... You were looking for a excuse anyway. ANd to say: "it cost to much to sit in the woods knowing they will not see a legal buck and with no doe tags to boot, they are going to look else where." Sounds like another excuse to stop hunting that area just because thier chances of shooting something are limited... With 35 people trampling all over your property I am not surprised you have people leaving... And that last statement is just a bunch of BS. Nothing in hunting is guaranteed, even the OTHER place they decied to hunt... Unless fence hunting is your thing...

Your usual 1000 word essay of worthless gibberish. You really have little understanding of hunting and hunters. You just see it from your selfish perspective. People hunt for different reasons. You may enjoy hunting 20 years without killing anything, but most of the rest of us go hunting to put something down and into the freezer. Or at least we want to know that we are allowed to kill something with the license we purchase. If we hunt in areas where doe permits are almost impossible to get and only bucks of 3 points to a side can be taken, it makes little sense to hunt for many. We can go into the woods at any time of the year and enjoy the outdoors in other ways without ever needing to give the DEC our money for a license to be allowed to shoot next to nothing.

[steve863]

Oh for crying out loud. Now we start with the conspiracy stories. The DEC supposedly accepted tons of unsigned input and you are blaming AR groups? What is the matter with you people. You will find any kind of silly story to justify maintaining your ability to simply lay back and stay uninvolved. The only thing that empowers any of these organizations is the unwillingness of the whiners to actually get off their butt and take them down or replace them. That's how the desires of the few influences the situations of this so-called "silent majority".

Some more jibberish from someone who didn't even read the bloody report. Why the hell does the DEC call AR's a social issue then? So the rest of us have to abide by hunting laws created because some hunters have "social issue" concerns with shooting a buck less than 3 points to a side?? Talk about a crock. Maybe you should stop and study who the real whiners are with this issue.

[NFA-ADK]

WHine some more why don't you steve... Just because you want to say you hunt for meat and you can not find a deer with 3 or more points on one side does no mean you can not shoot a deer. If you suck at hunting and can not find a 3 pointed buck so be it... Do not blame AR for your lack of hunting skills...

And in so far as me knowing about hunters, ahh yes you know me well. And for your info I have taken deer, but I am very selective... ALWAYS have been since the start. Just the way I am. Do I say everyone has to hunt like me, no that is just your narrow point of view...

But if you say I am not hunting because I suck and can not find a deer over 3 point then I will quite, well so be it. Go take a nature walk and have fun... NYS does not need another idiot in the woods so QUIT if you don't like it...

Otherwise QUITYOURBITCHEN!!!

Edited September 4, 2012 by NFA-ADK

[Doewhacker]

Hey Jackass it would be quit not quite. You are indeed a moron and have proven so many times on this forum, especially with some of your "advice" you give. I suggest you stick to playing northwoods hunter once or twice a year and stay down there the rest of the year.

[Doewhacker]

And in so far as me knowing about hunters, ahh yes you know me well. And for your info I have taken deer, but I am very selective... ALWAYS have been since the start. Just the way I am.

So then why did you shoot a 4 four pointer that you referenced in another thread?

Edited September 4, 2012 by Doewhacker

[Skillet]

Hey Jackass it would be quit not quite. You are indeed a moron and have proven so many times on this forum, especially with some of your "advice" you give. I suggest you stick to playing northwoods hunter once or twice a year and stay down there the rest of the year.

LOL. Tell us how you really feel, Doe. It's QUITE entertaining.

[Doewhacker]

LOL. Tell us how you really feel, Doe. It's QUITE entertaining.

Sorry couldn't hold back.

[NFA-ADK]

LMAO

To each his own, I will continue to hunt up North if you promise to never visit... Stay on your 30 Acher lot with you 35 friends and wonder why you never shoot (Or see...)a 8pt deer with every one shooting anything that comes down the pipe...

Again I see most of you could care less about deer as long as you can shoot them... Who cares about thier health, the heard or any animals. Kill em all... Go have fun...

[NFA-ADK]

Think I will join another bow hunter group. At least they seem to care about the animals, instead of saying I just need to fill my freezer... Yea, As a matter of fact I am going to try and make AR a state wide development. Yep. May be you should just move out of state...

NFA GETSOME

[Doewhacker]

LMAO

To each his own, I will continue to hunt up North if you promise to never visit... Stay on your 30 Acher lot with you 35 friends and wonder why you never shoot (Or see...)a 8pt deer with every one shooting anything that comes down the pipe...

Again I see most of you could care less about deer as long as you can shoot them... Who cares about thier health, the heard or any animals. Kill em all... Go have fun...

Boy that diareha of the mouth is killing you, do you know where or what I hunt? Nope you don't.

Please show me what part of NY's herd (note the spelling) is not healthy.