send letters for crossbows in NY

[Doc]

Why would a shorter season push guys out that only hunt opening day or opening weekend?

Charge more and offer less? You know as well as I do that even if you don't use the full extent of any benefits, you get mad as hell when someone takes them away from you. Also such a move would be viewed as a general attack on gun hunting.

You seriously think that 5 continuous weeks of gun season is good for the deer herd or hunters for that matter?

So what is the perfect number? Is it two? How about one? Or maybe its 7 weeks. I don't know ...... you don't know ...... NYS thinks they do and have set a season length that is acceptable to hunters. Until someone comes along with the proven numbers, I guess I will have to accept NYS's theory.

You yourself always say how the deer go into hiding once the bullets start flying.

If I use that as a criteria, I guess gun season should be cut to 1 day because that's all it takes to change the patterns of the herd.

What if you had a deer season where you actually saw deer instead of them spending most of it nocturnal? Im not talking huge racks and trophy deer, just better quality hunting overall. You dont think that once people see the improvements they are going to stay away?

We have that now. It's called bow season. And no, people are not flocking to pick up a bow. The advantages of bow season are not a secret and unless a hunter has been living under a rock, even the gun hunters are aware of those advantages. That doesn't mean that they are ready to run out and grab a bow. And that's probably a good thing. That way they are not saturating the woods and creating the same conditions that change deer patterns during the gun season.

The biggest reason I hear for people to quit hunting is that they get sick of tag soup years and years in a row, followed by lack of hunting access.

You are not going to eliminate "tag soup" by making gun hunters take up crossbows. That won't improve hunting access either. So your point is......? Actually, the biggest reason for people quitting hunting is unknown as of yet. There are many reasons, and I don't think you or I are equipped to prioritize them or come up with any magic bullet that will turn it around. Frankly, I would be very surprised if I were to find out that crossbows had any part in reversing or even slowing hunting defections.

Now take a look at the complaints in NY, honestly, there are alot. Go look at Ohio forums and you wont see nearly as much. The hunter satisfaction in that state is a ton higher than here. There are solutions, you just need to take the leap.

I think that whole argument is a bit of a "leap" .... lol. First of all, I have not done the comparison that you suggest. Second I'm not sure whether, even if what you say is true, that it indicates an improvement in hunter satisfaction, or indicates anything at all. Third, why would I think that differences in satisfaction if they existed at all, were due to season structure? I'd hate to base any management decisions based on internet forum perceptions ....lol. Doesn't make sense, does it?

[raymerlo]

the problem is that we need longer seasons not shorter ones,What should it matter what we use as a hunting  implement,also the minute the politicos

start to manage what the dec is doing and how its doing it the more convoluted it becomes because all they want is to say how much they helped,long bow, recurve,crossbow compound or gun should not matter,we have to stick together,there is plenty of room for everyone out there all it takes is a little effort to find it

together in this against the groups that want to see us gone and not argue

with each other as to who has the most rights in the field,

[WNYBuckHunter]

Doc, again I ask, how is the guy that hunts one weekend going to be affected by a shorter gun season? You still didnt answer it. They wouldnt be getting anything less for the same amount of money.

I dont know what the perfect number is, but I know what the seasons are in states with a high level of hunter satisfaction.

The reason why alot of guys dont pick up a bow is because they dont have the time to put into practicing like you need to with a bow. The crossbow takes care of that, then they just need to build the skills to consistently get close to the deer. Some wont do it, but Id be willing to bet many would.

I like how you just sat there trying to tear down a point that you admittedly did not even attempt to look into. Classic Doc. 

[WNYBuckHunter]

the problem is that we need longer seasons not shorter ones,What should it matter what we use as a hunting  implement,also the minute the politicos

start to manage what the dec is doing and how its doing it the more convoluted it becomes because all they want is to say how much they helped,long bow, recurve,crossbow compound or gun should not matter,we have to stick together,there is plenty of room for everyone out there all it takes is a little effort to find it

together in this against the groups that want to see us gone and not argue

with each other as to who has the most rights in the field,

Right, longer overall season, shorter gun season, which ultimately puts less pressure on the deer, which equals more opportunity to kill them because they arent running for their lives all the time. There are reasons why states with high hunter satisfaction have that, and 5 weeks of gun seasons in a row isnt part of their equations.

[steve863]

The reason why alot of guys dont pick up a bow is because they dont have the time to put into practicing like you need to with a bow. The crossbow takes care of that, then they just need to build the skills to consistently get close to the deer. Some wont do it, but Id be willing to bet many would.

From my experience it's easier to become a good shot with a modern bow than it is with a rifle at ranges that both weapons should be shot at.  I find it easier shooting a bow at 25 to 30 yards than it is shooting a rifle at 100, in field shooting positions.  Granted shooting at game with a bow is a whole different ballgame than shooting at styrofoam targets.  Lots of bowhunters shoot darn well at targets yet don't kill any deer or screw up when the opportunity arises.  I nonetheless have way MORE confidence with my rifle over any bow out there.  For the life of me I can't imagine how holding a heavy, clunky, awkward crossbow would be easier to shoot than a modern compound bow?  I bet if you put a few novice shooters to shoot each, they would be shooting better with the compound bow sooner than they would the crossbows.  I don't think I have ever seen anyone shoot that horribly with a compound bow after only a little practice.  I can't say the same about a rifle and surely can't see it happening with a crossbow which is similar in many ways to shooting a gun.

[WNYBuckHunter]

The reason why alot of guys dont pick up a bow is because they dont have the time to put into practicing like you need to with a bow. The crossbow takes care of that, then they just need to build the skills to consistently get close to the deer. Some wont do it, but Id be willing to bet many would.

From my experience it's easier to become a good shot with a modern bow than it is with a rifle at ranges that both weapons should be shot at.  I find it easier shooting a bow at 25 to 30 yards than it is shooting a rifle at 100, in field shooting positions.  Granted shooting at game with a bow is a whole different ballgame than shooting at styrofoam targets.  Lots of bowhunters shoot darn well at targets yet don't kill any deer or screw up when the opportunity arises.  I nonetheless have way MORE confidence with my rifle over any bow out there.  For the life of me I can't imagine how holding a heavy, clunky, awkward crossbow would be easier to shoot than a modern compound bow?  I bet if you put a few novice shooters to shoot each, they would be shooting better with the compound bow sooner than they would the crossbows.  I don't think I have ever seen anyone shoot that horribly with a compound bow after only a little practice.  I can't say the same about a rifle and surely can't see it happening with a crossbow which is similar in many ways to shooting a gun.

The thing is though, you should be proficient with the weapon you are hunting with and be consistent. While crossbows are big and clunky, they are easier to keep steady than a compound. You only have to be consistent out to 30 or 40 yards with a crossbow, which shouldnt be that hard. Sure, its gonna take practice, but not like the practice you need with a vertical bow. The single largest advantage to a crossbow though, is the amount of movement to get ready for a shot. While not the only skill required for killing deer at archery ranges, it helps. Hell, I shot my compound for over a year before I felt comfortable enough to hunt with it.

[Doc]

Doc, again I ask, how is the guy that hunts one weekend going to be affected by a shorter gun season? You still didnt answer it. They wouldnt be getting anything less for the same amount of money.

I dont know what the perfect number is, but I know what the seasons are in states with a high level of hunter satisfaction.

The reason why alot of guys dont pick up a bow is because they dont have the time to put into practicing like you need to with a bow. The crossbow takes care of that, then they just need to build the skills to consistently get close to the deer. Some wont do it, but Id be willing to bet many would.

I like how you just sat there trying to tear down a point that you admittedly did not even attempt to look into. Classic Doc. 

First of all let me tell you that I'm not paid to do your research. If you are interested, do your own work.

Next, let me tell you that I am not saying what reactions are correct and what are not. I'm just telling you what those reactions would logically be. As I said above, the perception would be that this is an attack on gun hunters. No they do not use all of what's available, but they know it is available to use if and when they want ....... until somebody (from the bowhunting community...lol) starts telling them they can't have it. Let's face it, I don't use all of the gun season, you probably don't either. But it's there to use whenever I need to schedule a few days here and there. I also remember the times before retirement when I had to squeeze my hunting in where I could. I guess you would take away that flexibility. These people wouldn't try to figure out if they are using what was being taken away. They would simply view it all as paying more and getting less ....... finally time to quit.

Could you convince gun hunters to cash in more than half their season and force them to use a crossbow instead of their shotgun or rifle?  I think that idea is just totally nuts and most likely to have the effect of aggravating hunters right out of the sport. It doesn't fit with any logic, or the personality of any of the gun hunters that I know or ever have met. I can't even imagine any gunhunter going for such nonsense and I've got to believe that you don't believe that idea either. Furthermore, who are you ever going to get to actually push this kind of thing through into law? I mean an idea has absolutely no value if there is no way to make it reality. Not only is the idea wacked, but the likelyhood of it ever becoming anything more than a pipe-dream is absolutely nil. When I hear that someone of some influence is backing such an idea, I'll start paying attention to it and I'll admit that it has some potential. Until then it is just an idea whose time will never come.

Doc

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I love to bow hunt....but not nearly the attraction I have to gun hunting. It was my First love and if I had to choose...I'd give up bowhunting

[WNYBuckHunter]

Doc, again I ask, how is the guy that hunts one weekend going to be affected by a shorter gun season? You still didnt answer it. They wouldnt be getting anything less for the same amount of money.

I dont know what the perfect number is, but I know what the seasons are in states with a high level of hunter satisfaction.

The reason why alot of guys dont pick up a bow is because they dont have the time to put into practicing like you need to with a bow. The crossbow takes care of that, then they just need to build the skills to consistently get close to the deer. Some wont do it, but Id be willing to bet many would.

I like how you just sat there trying to tear down a point that you admittedly did not even attempt to look into. Classic Doc. 

First of all let me tell you that I'm not paid to do your research. If you are interested, do your own work.

Next, let me tell you that I am not saying what reactions are correct and what are not. I'm just telling you what those reactions would logically be. As I said above, the perception would be that this is an attack on gun hunters. No they do not use all of what's available, but they know it is available to use if and when they want ....... until somebody (from the bowhunting community...lol) starts telling them they can't have it. Let's face it, I don't use all of the gun season, you probably don't either. But it's there to use whenever I need to schedule a few days here and there. I also remember the times before retirement when I had to squeeze my hunting in where I could. I guess you would take away that flexibility. These people wouldn't try to figure out if they are using what was being taken away. They would simply view it all as paying more and getting less ....... finally time to quit.

Could you convince gun hunters to cash in more than half their season and force them to use a crossbow instead of their shotgun or rifle?  I think that idea is just totally nuts and most likely to have the effect of aggravating hunters right out of the sport. It doesn't fit with any logic, or the personality of any of the gun hunters that I know or ever have met. I can't even imagine any gunhunter going for such nonsense and I've got to believe that you don't believe that idea either. Furthermore, who are you ever going to get to actually push this kind of thing through into law? I mean an idea has absolutely no value if there is no way to make it reality. Not only is the idea wacked, but the likelyhood of it ever becoming anything more than a pipe-dream is absolutely nil. When I hear that someone of some influence is backing such an idea, I'll start paying attention to it and I'll admit that it has some potential. Until then it is just an idea whose time will never come.

Doc

Im not asking you to do any research for me, youre the one who decided you would take something and tear it down based on not one single shred of anything. That is completely typical for someone that supposedly gave up on commenting on this subject a long time ago lol.

How exactly is it logical to say that a guy that hunts one weekend a year would quit hunting if 4 weeks of season turned into 2? Logically, that guy wouldnt care, he is getting no more or less for his money.

Giving people a more quality experience that they dont complain about instead of 5 weeks of lead flying while everyone bitches that they dont see anything doesnt make sense? Why? In my plan, I said 2 weeks of regular gun and 2 more of muzzleloader a few weeks after regular gun ends, that comes up to 1 less week. Add into that the guys have the opportunity (not forced) to pick up a crossbow and get 3 complete months of combined seasons. I just dont see that as being bad, that is unless you have no complaints about the currently F'ed up hunting in NY that we have now. I guess if you never look outside of this state, you dont see how good things could be.

[Doc]

Apparently you don't understand an answer when it is given to you, so I see no need to continue trying to get you to understand. And listening to you repeating the same foolishness over and over again really is getting tiresome. Look, to be blunt, the idea is just not worthy of arguing over. It's something that will never happen, never should happen, and its foolish to waste time discussing such a ridiculous thing. If I should ever find that you have had enough conviction to actually be able to get someone of some authority to take the idea seriously then maybe it might be worth discussing. Until then it is just like so many of your posts, simply arguing just to argue.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Wow Doc, so since you dont agree with something, it automatically makes it crazy and unworthy of discussion? You ever hear the word narcissism? 

[Doc]

Look, I know it's important to you that get in the last word, so why don't you just add one more reply and I'll let you have the last word and then you'll be happy. Have a nice day.   

Doc

[Larry]

Here is why there won’t ever be a shorter gun season it’s simple that’s where the money is. Not in the bow or ml season. When all the gun hunters go out and buy cross – bows to hunt the bow season and the bow season becomes the money maker then the gun season will get shorter.  Here one thing you could if you think the gun season is to long STAY HOME HALF the gun season 

[sits in trees]

boy you guy's really know how to over complicate things and spin some imaginary scenanrio into a death of us all cable TV news report, i would swear some of you are congressmen or politicians running for some office with all the BS scarey fairytales your spewing. SHORTENING GUN season for a crossbow season, LMAO!!!!   the only major change i think we are going to see in the next few years is inclusion of x-bows into archery season, if you want to call that major or the implementation of special youth hunting seasons, both of which me or any hunter should be in favor of.

[TheHunter]

So what the deal with the bill?  Did the Gov nix it like his should and send all the cross gunners to some other state?

Hands down a cross bow IS NOT archery.  It doesn't shoot like a bow nor act like a bow.  I shot one, dead on, at 50 yards first shot.  So dont give me some BS that its a bow or like a bow, it a gun that instead of shooting a bullet it shoots a arrow. 

All you crossbow fanboys are more then likely just a crap shot with bow and are looking for some easy way out.

[sits in trees]

So what the deal with the bill?  Did the Gov nix it like his should and send all the cross gunners to some other state?

Hands down a cross bow IS NOT archery.  It doesn't shoot like a bow nor act like a bow.  I shot one, dead on, at 50 yards first shot.  So dont give me some BS that its a bow or like a bow, it a gun that instead of shooting a bullet it shoots a arrow. 

All you crossbow fanboys are more then likely just a crap shot with bow and are looking for some easy way out.

fat chance on the Gov not signing the bill, it's as good as done bub, and heck any archer worth his weight in cow dung should be able to shoot dead on with even his compound at 50 yds. a crossbow has no ballisitic advantage over a regular compound bow. sounds like you may be the crap shot being that you were so amazed you could actually hit something at 50 yds??? have you ever even killed anything with your bow??

[SteveB]

All you crossbow fanboys are more then likely just a crap shot with bow and are looking for some easy way out

Bring your recurve/longbow - aka a real bow - and a pocket full of cash..

[WNYBuckHunter]

The Hunter, first off, being an internet tough guy just makes you look like a fool. Second, you better get used to crossbows, they will be legalized very soon. Third, try and tell any of the major archery organizations and sanctioning bodies that crossbows aren't archery.

[archer]

Reading this thread has become mass confusion...........it has gone from writing a letter in support of crossguns to opposition to it and then on to shortening and lengthening season to crossgun accuracy to compound accuracy to my bow is bigger and badder than your bow.  If someone doesn't agree with your point then name calling, on and on and on.......one even said.."I haven't read a good reason yet not to allow crossbows during archery"........translate: you don't agree with anyone....you certainly aren't judge and jury here, so get off the pedestal.

I shoot traditional archery gear, my effective killing range is probably 17-18 yards, I am good at 20 yards, anything over that and I enjoy the scenery.  I love to hunt from the ground, I enjoy studying the deer each season, trying to put together their routine, then putting myself within 15 yards or less from them in a ground blind or a treestand if that is the best way for that situation.  A good day is walking 5 miles and almost getting a shot, and enjoying a lunch somewhere sitting on a stump in the woods in autumn without pressure from hordes of hunters.  I don't want more hunters in the woods, I've hunted this season for 35 years and I like it just the way it is.  And I want it to stay that way, quiet, unpressured deer, challenging, a time for real hunting.  And I will fight to protect that heritage so that my kids and my grandkids can enjoy the same.  I think including the "crossgun" during the archery season will severly effect the primitive nature of the hunt, I am fearful for the type of hunter that this contraption will draw to the archery season, I am fearful that I will see a hunter on every stump like we do during gun season (the reason I do not hunt gun season), I am fearful that deer hunting will continue to slide towards nothing more than a harvest of wildlife, people losing the ability to hunt and understand why they hunt, while the state draws more money into slush funds at our expense in the name of "getting more sportsman into our folds".  Yes, if I had it my way we'd all be shooting stickows with wooden arrows we vaned ourselves with glued on fixed blade broadheads and trying to take an animal down at 10 yards.  But it has already supassed that with the compound, and I for one don't want to see it continue to deteriorate.

That's my reason, you can choose to disagree or agree, but respect my take on it and I'll respect your take on it.  My reason is good enough in my eyes, perhaps not others.  My reasoning is based upon limiting myself with the hunting tool I choose to use, putting myself closer to the animals terms, meeting him there on close to even odds, and hoping that if I have worked hard and spent my time in the woods effectively and have practiced relentessly my shooting, and that the stars are aligned right, well then just maybe I'll get lucky and take an animal.  I like it that way, I want it to stay that way.

[sits in trees]

Reading this thread has become mass confusion...........it has gone from writing a letter in support of crossguns to opposition to it and then on to shortening and lengthening season to crossgun accuracy to compound accuracy to my bow is bigger and badder than your bow.  If someone doesn't agree with your point then name calling, on and on and on.......one even said.."I haven't read a good reason yet not to allow crossbows during archery"........translate: you don't agree with anyone....you certainly aren't judge and jury here, so get off the pedestal.

I shoot traditional archery gear, my effective killing range is probably 17-18 yards, I am good at 20 yards, anything over that and I enjoy the scenery.  I love to hunt from the ground, I enjoy studying the deer each season, trying to put together their routine, then putting myself within 15 yards or less from them in a ground blind or a treestand if that is the best way for that situation.  A good day is walking 5 miles and almost getting a shot, and enjoying a lunch somewhere sitting on a stump in the woods in autumn without pressure from hordes of hunters.  I don't want more hunters in the woods, I've hunted this season for 35 years and I like it just the way it is.  And I want it to stay that way, quiet, unpressured deer, challenging, a time for real hunting.  And I will fight to protect that heritage so that my kids and my grandkids can enjoy the same.  I think including the "crossgun" during the archery season will severly effect the primitive nature of the hunt, I am fearful for the type of hunter that this contraption will draw to the archery season, I am fearful that I will see a hunter on every stump like we do during gun season (the reason I do not hunt gun season), I am fearful that deer hunting will continue to slide towards nothing more than a harvest of wildlife, people losing the ability to hunt and understand why they hunt, while the state draws more money into slush funds at our expense in the name of "getting more sportsman into our folds".  Yes, if I had it my way we'd all be shooting stickows with wooden arrows we vaned ourselves with glued on fixed blade broadheads and trying to take an animal down at 10 yards.  But it has already supassed that with the compound, and I for one don't want to see it continue to deteriorate.

That's my reason, you can choose to disagree or agree, but respect my take on it and I'll respect your take on it.  My reason is good enough in my eyes, perhaps not others.  My reasoning is based upon limiting myself with the hunting tool I choose to use, putting myself closer to the animals terms, meeting him there on close to even odds, and hoping that if I have worked hard and spent my time in the woods effectively and have practiced relentessly my shooting, and that the stars are aligned right, well then just maybe I'll get lucky and take an animal.  I like it that way, I want it to stay that way.

your long yarn more than likely wont even be read by most of the posters on this thread because of the content of the very first sentance. if you expect hunters, whom a large majority of are pro crossbow to read your long dribbling posts then you might wanna use a form that people might even wanna read. i stopped reading your BS the second i got to crossguns phrase in your first sentance....man i can't wait till crossbows become legal (and they will)so i can PM each of you anti hunter wingnuts and stomp you with my keyboard and laugh in your pitiful faces!!!

[wztirem]

Reading this thread has become mass confusion...........it has gone from writing a letter in support of crossguns to opposition to it and then on to shortening and lengthening season to crossgun accuracy to compound accuracy to my bow is bigger and badder than your bow.  If someone doesn't agree with your point then name calling, on and on and on.......one even said.."I haven't read a good reason yet not to allow crossbows during archery"........translate: you don't agree with anyone....you certainly aren't judge and jury here, so get off the pedestal.

I shoot traditional archery gear, my effective killing range is probably 17-18 yards, I am good at 20 yards, anything over that and I enjoy the scenery.  I love to hunt from the ground, I enjoy studying the deer each season, trying to put together their routine, then putting myself within 15 yards or less from them in a ground blind or a treestand if that is the best way for that situation.  A good day is walking 5 miles and almost getting a shot, and enjoying a lunch somewhere sitting on a stump in the woods in autumn without pressure from hordes of hunters.  I don't want more hunters in the woods, I've hunted this season for 35 years and I like it just the way it is.  And I want it to stay that way, quiet, unpressured deer, challenging, a time for real hunting.  And I will fight to protect that heritage so that my kids and my grandkids can enjoy the same.  I think including the "crossgun" during the archery season will severly effect the primitive nature of the hunt, I am fearful for the type of hunter that this contraption will draw to the archery season, I am fearful that I will see a hunter on every stump like we do during gun season (the reason I do not hunt gun season), I am fearful that deer hunting will continue to slide towards nothing more than a harvest of wildlife, people losing the ability to hunt and understand why they hunt, while the state draws more money into slush funds at our expense in the name of "getting more sportsman into our folds".  Yes, if I had it my way we'd all be shooting stickows with wooden arrows we vaned ourselves with glued on fixed blade broadheads and trying to take an animal down at 10 yards.  But it has already supassed that with the compound, and I for one don't want to see it continue to deteriorate.

That's my reason, you can choose to disagree or agree, but respect my take on it and I'll respect your take on it.  My reason is good enough in my eyes, perhaps not others.  My reasoning is based upon limiting myself with the hunting tool I choose to use, putting myself closer to the animals terms, meeting him there on close to even odds, and hoping that if I have worked hard and spent my time in the woods effectively and have practiced relentessly my shooting, and that the stars are aligned right, well then just maybe I'll get lucky and take an animal.  I like it that way, I want it to stay that way.

This thread should have been posted under "The perfect hunter"!

[bubba]

I am willing to bet that most of the opposers on here will be in line or online purchasing a cross bow as soon as they are legal.  Their reasoning will be so they can have a fair chance since everyone will be using one. 

[archer]

I merely posted why I don't want crossbow, "sits in trees"....I'm sure you read the entire post.

You really need to grow up some.....the harsh comments indicate that perhaps you're the type I fear coming to the woods.......in fact, I'm sure of it.  Thats the problem with forums like this, you got little puppies acting like big dogs behind a computer when in fact in public they stand with their tail between their legs.  Some men are men, some...well,, they sit in trees.

[Doc]

I merely posted why I don't want crossbow, "sits in trees"....I'm sure you read the entire post.

You really need to grow up some.....the harsh comments indicate that perhaps you're the type I fear coming to the woods.......in fact, I'm sure of it.  Thats the problem with forums like this, you got little puppies acting like big dogs behind a computer when in fact in public they stand with their tail between their legs.  Some men are men, some...well,, they sit in trees.

Don't take Sits too seriously. He is our resident flamer who joined only to see how many people he can irritate. That's simply his way of getting attention. He's just a little bit of static in the background of an otherwise fairly friendly forum. After a while, you will see that all his posts have the same miserable tone of a disagreeable personality. Anymore, I simply ignore him. I just hope his mal-formed personality doesn't lose any members here or cause anyone not to post. If we had an "ignore" button, he would be a good candidate for its use.

Doc

[wztirem]

Nonetheles like everyone else he is entitled to post his opinion. We can choose to either respond or simply bypass anyones post on this forum.

As someone once said, "life is too short, eat desert first".