Out of control neighbor

[Doc]

Yes, I did field dress the deer on his side. I went over there to thank him and ask if he wanted me to clean up the gut pile. This doe was huge (around 180lbs) and tried to drag her to my side but it was just too thick. He was raging mad and I just backed away from him. He called the sheriff on me but they never came over to talk to me. I called them and the sheriff told me he was irate and not to go over on his property even to clean up the mess.

The sheriff's advice was spot-on. Stay away from this guy. We don't need to be reading about another tragic event caused by some irrational and out-of-control wacky neighbor going over the edge. STAY ... AWAY .... FROM .... HIM! Find another place to hunt. Seriously, you may have stepped onto a ticking time-bomb.

[WNYBuckHunter]

haha again with the attacks. You are apiece of work. He got his answer form an officer if you took the time to read rather than go into attack mode.

Let me explain something to you. I dont care one way or the other if im wrong or right about it. If I am wrong, I will admit to it,as I have done in the past. Either way id rather see what the real case may be rather than take your word for it, as I have found your knowledge of the law to be flawed in the past.

Anytime anyone disagrees with you, you act the same way with ypur little temper tantrum. Thats fine.

[landtracdeerhunter]

Hey everyone. My 1st post on here. I am having serious issues with my next door neighbor. We dont see eye to eye on a number of issues but this time it has gotten out of control and hoping someone on here might be able to send me in the right direction. I shot a nice size doe behind my stand last week. I hit her pretty good, but higher than I wanted to. I hit the artery along her back and she went right down. She got up a several times, went a few steps and crashed. She was heading toward the property line and my neighbor also hunts. I called out for him several times in the hopes he could put a final shot in her to end her suffering but there was no answer so I took the final shot myself from my stand. When I got down I wanted to be sure there was a clear blood trail where she initially went down cause I knew my neighbor would be pissed and thinking I shot her on his property. This was not a blood trail but a clearly defined red road with blood all over, ground, one trees, bushes, ect. I could actually see her bleeding from my stand @ 40 yards. Anyways, I went over to the neighbors to get permission to recover my deer, he very rudely gave his ok. The next day he was out getting his mail and I went over to thank him for letting me recover my deer and to tell him I would go back and clean up the mess if he would like me to. He was very angry, screaming at me and swearing, told me he called the sheriff and was going to have me arrested for shooting a deer on his property. Tried to explain and told him to just follow the trail but would not let me get a word in. Sheriff came and never even came over to talk to me. I called the DEC office for my region and asked if they could send someone over to document what happened and to verify where I shot the deer. Officer said he would try to come out but never showed up. The following weekend I wend out to my stand early in the morning (around 7:00am) and was welcomed by my neighbor standing 35-40 yards from my stand right on the property line with his shotgun held sidearmed. He glared at me and fired two rounds into the woods, never even looking at what he was shooting just glaring at me. I said I hope that makes him feel better, he just called me a F#($*ng jerk. I knew there was no sense arguing over it and immediatly left my stand and headed home. I called the DEC and still have not gotten any results. I think they really dont want to get in the middle of a dispute between neighbors and dont really blame them but this has gone over the top and needs to be addressed in my opition. What do I do? I cant even enjoy the last week of the season cause of this A-hole

I had a friend that was in a similar situation a few years back. Nothing good came out of it except, every time a deer runs on the neighbors property, that neighbor ends up getting the deer. It got so bad, he ended up selling the property. Don't know how the new people are doing, but I do see new posted signs every 20' or so along the road.

[Five Seasons]

lot of lawyers on this site I see.

I'm calling the DEC the next time my neighbors kids ride quads on their own property during deer season... or maybe when my other neighbor lets his terriers out and they begin their yipping. There are no noise ordinances in most of the small towns we all hunt and you can do what you want for the most part on your property. Try proving I'm cutting wood or riding quads to annoy you and you will instantly be able to command some nice prices for your services as a lawyer.

Like I said, unless you're banging pots and pans there's not much you can do about what someone does on their property and what if that particular neighbor is playing the drums and not pots and pans? Can they not play drums in the woods? I believe a few of you told me in the button buck thread that if i didn't like neighbors killing button bucks because it impacted my future seasons i should just buy more land. Same can be said here.

Edited December 17, 2012 by Belo

[jjb4900]

The law was pretty much written to protect hunter's from anti-hunter's who disrupt hunts, I think we all have heard of how they have organized to disrupt hunts at areas that are being opened for first time hunts or when they encounter hunters on public land.........unfortunately it isn't a crime to be a bad neighbor.

[growalot]

Here's the problem...as with the news article I read...with the guy mowing his trails and turned in resulting in a fine and order not to do that activity during hunting season....Again it's the INTERPRETATION of the law...and when you have small town justices allowing for a ...lets just say broad interpretation go through their courts...... a precedent is then formed ...opening the crack for further broad interpretations....

Common law, also known as case FINLD or precedent, is law developed by judges through decisions of courts and similar tribunals, as opposed to statutes adopted through the legislative process or regulations issued by the executive branch.^[1]

A "common law system" is a legal system that gives great precedential weight to common law,^[2] on the principle that it is unfair to treat similar facts differently on different occasions.^[3] The body of precedent is called "common law" and it binds future decisions. In cases where the parties disagree on what the law is, a common law court looks to past precedential decisions of relevant courts. If a similar dispute has been resolved in the past, the court is bound to follow the reasoning used in the prior decision (this principle is known as stare decisis). If, however, the court finds that the current dispute is fundamentally distinct from all previous cases (called a "matter of first impression"), judges have the authority and duty to make law by creating precedent.^[4] Thereafter, the new decision becomes precedent, and will bind future courts. (See below here and here for contrasting systems.)

In practice, common law systems are considerably more complicated than the simplified system described above. The decisions of a court are binding only in a particular jurisdiction, and even within a given jurisdiction, some courts have more power than others. For example, in most jurisdictions, decisions by appellate courts are binding on lower courts in the same jurisdiction and on future decisions of the same appellate court, but decisions of lower courts are only non-binding persuasive authority. Interactions between common law, constitutional law, statutory law and regulatory law also give rise to considerable complexity. However, stare decisis, the principle that similar cases should be decided according to consistent principled rules so that they will reach similar results, lies at the heart of all common law systems.

[SteveB]

I'm sure field dressing on his land did not help - especially if he is hunting as well.

[jjb4900]

I'm sure field dressing on his land did not help - especially if he is hunting as well.

and the whole yelling at him to get another shot into the deer still has me baffled, I would love to hear the neighbor's version of this incident.

Edited December 17, 2012 by jjb4900

[Larry_1207]

Well, thats what happened. I wanted him to be out there this time lol, hoping he would go up to the deer and put her out of her misery (was ready to split the meat with him also). When he didnt answer I decided to do it myself. As for the gut pile, I was heading out the next morning to clean it but wanted his permission to go on his property prior, thats when he went off on me. I know he likes to hunt coyote and thought for sure he would want it left alone for bait. I would have cleaned it up that evening but decided to wait till morning.

[Five Seasons]

this has got me thinking of an incident that happened to my father and I this year and if you heard the other guys story you'd probably believe my father was a d!ck. But honestly my father never did anything you're claiming your neighbor did but was indeed very upset at the actions this neighbor took which included trespassing without permission and littering. just a thought.

[Doc]

For future reference, it is a good idea to have all that stuff hashed out in advance. In other words well before the season head around the hunting area requesting retrieval permission. Had you done this, you may have gotten a preview of his unfriendly condition, and been able to relocate to avoid hunting that close to the line, or perhaps even go to an entirely different place to hunt.

[nyslowhand]

So you made the final, fatal shot and gutted the deer on his property that you didn't have permission to hunt or be on? And...This is the same neighbor you've been having prior disagreements with. Sounds like you incited an already "bad-blood" situation..? Correct me if I'm wrong!!

[Doc]

So you made the final, fatal shot and gutted the deer on his property that you didn't have permission to hunt or be on? And...This is the same neighbor you've been having prior disagreements with. Sounds like you incited an already "bad-blood" situation..? Correct me if I'm wrong!!

At this point, assigning blame may not really matter. The fact is that there is a neighbor problem that could continue escalating into something real ugly. My guess is that the neighbor relations cannot be repaired, no matter what the causes were. So, looking forward, I have to repeat: Stay away from him and find alternative hunting arrangements that ensure that there are no more encounters.

[SteveB]

For future reference, it is a good idea to have all that stuff hashed out in advance. In other words well before the season head around the hunting area requesting retrieval permission. Had you done this, you may have gotten a preview of his unfriendly condition, and been able to relocate to avoid hunting that close to the line, or perhaps even go to an entirely different place to hunt.

Amazing how many don't do this.

All part of preparation for the season, like scouting, hanging stands, practice, etc.

And should be done every season.

[fasteddie]

My wife has diagnosed me as being Passive Aggressive so I would probably think about doing some of the silly things members have posted to this thread . I often act on things , do something stupid and regret it later . Trying to correct this isn't easy .

My sister in law doesn't get along with her neighbor and it has been this way for at least 25 years . When I see him out and about I make it a point to say Hi and have a conversation . I have his Cell phone # and he has mine . No doubt if I shot a deer and it ran onto his property , I would be able to recover it and if he had one run onto my SIL's property , I wouldn't mind . I just wouldn't say anything to my SIL .

I made it a point be be friendly with the neighbor and it has paid off .

Larry 1207 ....... I would suggest trying to be friendly with that neighbor and try to forget the deer recovery incident . Staying P.O.'d just adds stress to the body .

[Doc]

naw, I'd go over there and poke at him with a stick.

[bubba]

Let me explain something to you. I dont care one way or the other if im wrong or right about it. If I am wrong, I will admit to it,as I have done in the past. Either way id rather see what the real case may be rather than take your word for it, as I have found your knowledge of the law to be flawed in the past.

Anytime anyone disagrees with you, you act the same way with ypur little temper tantrum. Thats fine.

temper tantrum umm you are attacking me, I pointed it out and you attack again. Swollen heads prevail I guess.

[jjb4900]

Bubba, still hoping you could explain how you can charge someone with criminal negligence....last time I checked it was a culpable mental state and not a crime that you can be charged by itself.

[jjb4900]

How is cutting trees on your own property hunter harassment? Please find me that one in the law books. You have the right to cut wood any time you want to. He on the other hand has no right to fire off shots like that especially if he fired them onto the neighbors property. criminal negligence at the least, which is much more than hunter harassment. Could have been another hunter there he was shooting in the direction of.

in case you needed to see when you stated criminal negligence was a crime that can be charged on its own.......

[bubba]

Criminal negligence is negligence which requires a greater degree of culpability than the civil standard of negligence. The civil standard of negligence is defined according to a failure to follow the standard of conduct of a reasonable person in the same situation as the defendant. To show criminal negligence, the state must prove beyond a reasonable doubt the mental state involved in criminal negligence. Proof of that mental state requires that the failure to perceive a substantial and unjustifiable risk that a result will occur must be a gross deviation from the standard of a reasonable person. Criminal negligence is conduct which is such a departure from what would be that of an ordinary prudent or careful person in the same circumstance as to be incompatible with a proper regard for human life or an indifference to consequences. Criminal negligence is negligence that is aggravated, culpable or gross.

The following is an example of one state's statute defining criminal negligence:

''A person acts with 'criminal negligence' with respect to a result or to a circumstance described by a statute defining an offense when he fails to perceive a substantial and unjustifiable risk that such result will occur or that such circumstance exists. The risk must be of such nature and degree that the failure to perceive it constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that a reasonable person would observe in the situation.''

[jjb4900]

Criminal negligence is negligence which requires a greater degree of culpability than the civil standard of negligence. The civil standard of negligence is defined according to a failure to follow the standard of conduct of a reasonable person in the same situation as the defendant. To show criminal negligence, the state must prove beyond a reasonable doubt the mental state involved in criminal negligence. Proof of that mental state requires that the failure to perceive a substantial and unjustifiable risk that a result will occur must be a gross deviation from the standard of a reasonable person. Criminal negligence is conduct which is such a departure from what would be that of an ordinary prudent or careful person in the same circumstance as to be incompatible with a proper regard for human life or an indifference to consequences. Criminal negligence is negligence that is aggravated, culpable or gross.

The following is an example of one state's statute defining criminal negligence:

''A person acts with 'criminal negligence' with respect to a result or to a circumstance described by a statute defining an offense when he fails to perceive a substantial and unjustifiable risk that such result will occur or that such circumstance exists. The risk must be of such nature and degree that the failure to perceive it constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that a reasonable person would observe in the situation.''

huh?...you can't charge someone with criminal negligence by itself, it has to be attached to something...........it's how you act whether it be with criminal negligence, intentionally, recklessly or knowingly and the result of your actions .if you kill someone because of how you act, and you acted with criminal negligence, then you can be charged with criminally negligent homicide...............but you already know this, right?

[bubba]

actually yes I do know that. In the heat of emotion I screwed up. But hey feel free to jump on the band wagon too.

[jjb4900]

actually yes I do know that. In the heat of emotion I screwed up. But hey feel free to jump on the band wagon too.

There's so many bandwagon's out there I wouldn't know which one to jump on.....

[bubba]

Jump on them all.

[New York Hillbilly]

A sure fire way to defeat your enemy........make him your friend. I would send him a Christmas card and write it in, "I'm sorry for the misunderstanding this past deer season and hope we can be good neighbors again. Please except my best wishes for a Merry Christmas to you and your family.",and sign your name. If that does not fix things there is little hope, and at least you were the bigger person.

Peace