Do You Have any Winter Scouting Tips?

[88GW]

Since the snow has fallen I have been out and about scouting the woods. Can you guys tell me what you usually look for when scouting in the winter or any tips or tricks that have worked well for you in the past?

My #1 question is do deer tend to follow the same routes that I am currently seeing in the snow???

[Doc]

Actually, I don't usually do any scouting when the snow is covering the ground. Right now we have quite a bit more than a foot of snow, and deer are doing whatever they need to do to survive. This causes them to travel in random ways, and generally show up in a lot of places you will never see them in hunting conditions. If I based any hunting decisions on what I am seeing right now, I'd be hunting under our bird feeder next fall .... lol.

If we should get a significant thaw that exposes the ground again, I may wander around looking for trails, rubs, scrapes, and other signs of last fall's activity. That can be useful info because a lot of that repeats from year to year. But what is going on right now is way to random and patternless to be of any use other than to perhaps see what deer are in your area. And actually, as winter wears on, even that little piece of info won't really be all that reliable as yarding and winter mini-migrations take place.

[genesee_mohican]

I like to get out and walk around with a few inches of snow on the ground. Seeing deer tracks and where deer are traveling has always facinated me and has taught me a lot. The tracks tell a story. For scouting I concentrate on rubs lines and trying to find pinch points. It's a good time to learn more about the lay of the land and think about how to best access an area without educating deer on the way to and from a stand area.

[Doc]

That's true. The one thing you can learn a whole lot about right now is the lay of the land and where there are certain deer-magnet features. There is a pile of detail that you can see much more clearly right now that is no where near as obvious when the leaves are on and the visibility through the woods is hampered by foliage.

[njg0621]

If we get an early snow then absolutely you can get an idea of what the deer are doing. Right now this late in the season with this much snow don't base a stand location on where you are seeing tracks!

[phade]

I'll post my two cents and move on. I believe you are getting some poor information and also some good starter information. Scouting right now has value - how you use the information you find is key. Blanket statements such as late season significant snowfall or random actions by deer (LOL) are just not something that should keep you from scouting right now.

The obvious helper with snowfall are the tracks. They tell a big story if you just do the work. Large tracks led me and my partner to this thigh-sized rub on Saturday. I'm 6' 1" and the rub tops out at my shoulders. It has significant scaring from tines above the rub and shows sign of prior year activity. So, really, what's the value of scouting now...Duh, here's what we now know (or don't know):

#1 This buck is still alive.

#2 It is mature (track width, gait spacing, rubs, rub height, tine scoring)

#3 We're in his core area (repeated use of the same rub tree, other similar rubs, a scrape identified by the licking branch, large tracks in snow during time of lower [relatively speaking] forage availability and decent snow build-up in the same locale as was his fall range)

#4 This rub was likely made and hit in the morning based on rub location on the tree, tree location, bedding area, food sources, and travel direction amongst them.

#5 We didn't find his bed (ran out of time due to commitments and had to stop there), but we believe we're very close to it, and we know where to start the next time we scout this buck. We will find his bed or beds in this vicinity and we will set up a kill stand accordingly.

#6 This may be a rare set where this buck can be killed going INTO his bed in the a.m. in bow season rather than being an afternoon set and trying to kill him as he leaves his bed. The rub activity and scrape location close to bed (assumption at this point) means a very early morning arrival to stand for the hunter on a day or night prior with precipitation and wind. Bucks that do this may be vulnerable to hitting the scrape and/or rub before coming to bed in the morning, hanging him up "just" enough to have him in sight in legal shooting hours.

Scouting at this time of year in these conditions may not be worth it to some, but it is to me, and I know alot more about this buck now.

Quality hunting ground can make a poor hunter look great and very skilled. But, for the majority of hunters, including me, this is where the rubber meets the road. Some do it and some refuse. Best of luck to you, whatever information you heed and what you choose to do.

Edited January 8, 2013 by phade

[nycredneck]

There are always things to learn in the woods. With all the cover/leaves down and the ability to see farther and just more clearly, especially into dense areas, there is always something to learn. The lay of the land, feeding, bedding, travel corridors and watering areas all seem easier to find on a clear (realatively) warm winter day. The deer may be in a winter pattern but you can still learn things by scouting in the winter. Main trails, rubs, secondary trails, good ambush sites, may find a shed or two, some deer may still be holding bone and of course finding big tracks mean big deer. I find new places and stand sites in the winter with the visability better.

Spring is also a good time for scouting, snow is gone and before the leaves get going you can still see far plus the sign from the fall activity is still there waiting to be learned from. Most don't want to scout in the fall and disturb an area they are hunting so springtime scouting is the answer.

Edited January 8, 2013 by nycredneck

[Early]

Coupla thoughts: First go hunting...scout while you hunt/hunt while you scout. It is amazing what you can learn about deer while pursuing winter grouse or snowshoe hares. Second, EXPLORE while you scout/hunt: Deliberately visit areas just beyond or just around the corner from where you normally hunt. You might be surprised by what you find. Lastly, use compass, GPS, and/or bright surveyor's tape to help you return to any new "hot spots" you locate.

[landtracdeerhunter]

I'm out there now, checking for sheds,as well as deer sign. This is a 12 month ordeal. It never ends. You get a lot of key information, past, present and future. I've noticed a lot of change, this winter compared to last. Keeping a log book helps me to review each season. I enjoy the winter months more now, instead of leaving deer season, and waiting for the turkey boys.

[fasteddie]

I went to Geneseo to get mt Outhouse Blind and took a trail camera along . I was surprised to see so many tracks all over the place . The deer were hiding during the season but know they are safe now . I only saw one deer while trudging through the crispy , crusty snow . Any deer had to hear me coming from a long ways off . All the tracks were quite impressive . Also saw several spots where deer had bedded .

[Lawdwaz]

Coupla thoughts: First go hunting...scout while you hunt/hunt while you scout. It is amazing what you can learn about deer while pursuing winter grouse or snowshoe hares. Second, EXPLORE while you scout/hunt: Deliberately visit areas just beyond or just around the corner from where you normally hunt. You might be surprised by what you find. Lastly, use compass, GPS, and/or bright surveyor's tape to help you return to any new "hot spots" you locate.

Trying to scout when your hunting doesn't make tons of sense. Hunting season is for............HUNTING.

This time of year and the spring is fantastic for learning the woods, hills, valleys and trails etc. of the deer. Take flagging tape (make sure you have permission) and mark spots you want to hang a stand or sit on a log. Trimming trees now isn't a bad idea.

If you wait and try and scout in late summer or early fall you will have dickens of a time seeing anything because 1) it is way to green and thick with understory growth. and 2) when the leaves start to fly you can't see squat until the deer start to pack the trails down again.

Now is a great time to be in the woods.

[growalot]

I've been out daily...and...have found beds...tracks...new rubs and old rubs I'd not seen...feeding areas and lots of info to what and generally how many critters are about....some very big deer and small...bucks bedding...urine in beds...and doe groups...cow paths and single meanderings...some fox and a couple of yotes .,..lots and lots of bunnies..

this is a great time to be out ...and the deep snow is a good thing...not so much for my knees...lol...but it will keep the deer from moving off too quickly...giving me time to see whats what....kicked out and skirted a few bedded deer...one a buck that lost it's rack...hopefully on our place...could find them though

[Doc]

With an excess of a foot of snow covering old scrapes, and old trails, there isn't much info available. If you want to check for trails scrapes and rubs, a good January thaw or barren-ground springtime condition is a much more meaningful time from a standpoint of learning what the activity was from last hunting season rather than when there is a foot of snow covering all that.

What I have found is that traditional non-snow trails are ignored in deep winter as the deer wander looking for food. And speaking of food, there is absolutely no similarity between a deer's diet now vs. the diet during hunting season. What I am seeing right now is the tips of spruce trees being browsed, and some of the tips of red osier being munched, and seed clusters of staghorn sumac and some of the low-growing maple tips. None of which is given a second glance by deer in the fall when there is a fresh drop of acorns or apples, or grasslands or ag crops to feed on. Current tracks and trails reflect the different feeding habits and totally ignore the traditional fall trails. So when I see a trail of several deer walking together across my front yard heading for the bird feeder, that doesn't mean that next fall I should have a stand there..... lol.

Bedding is now more related to protection from the elements, where in the fall the deer's bedding concern is more related to safety, cover and proximity to fall food sources. So noting where a deer is bedding right now is pretty useless info when hunting season rolls around.

Yes, if you want to look for those pinch-points, funnels and hillside benches, and other traditional land features that draw deer, now is a good time to find those kinds of things. They stand out well in a woods uncluttered by foliage. If you want some kind of sense of deer populations, a good snow cover is a good time to do that. But, if you are looking for meaningful deer sign from rut and travel, wait until there is bare-ground conditions. If you are looking for feeding and bedding locations, don't waste your time checking those out during winter because they will not represent anything about fall (hunting) feeding and bedding conditions.

For me, it would be a huge mistake to base stand selection based on what the deer are doing in the dead of winter unless I was hunting in those kinds of conditions. Deer are creatures that adapt to current conditions and are driven by their current diet. So my more meaningful scouting is done as close to hunting time as possible. By the way, I do a lot of in-season scouting. Stand selection is based on looking for concentrations of acorns or an occasional wild apple tree that is bearing heavy, or fresh heavily used trails with fresh tracks on them, or even a few sightings, or now we have trail cams to provide current info. Yes, I do keep an eye out at all times of the year for rut sign from prior seasons, because those often are repeated acts and locations. But when it comes to current patterns, nothing beats current scouting and that doesn't happen in the dead of winter.

[phade]

With an excess of a foot of snow covering old scrapes, and old trails, there isn't much info available. If you want to check for trails scrapes and rubs, a good January thaw or barren-ground springtime condition is a much more meaningful time from a standpoint of learning what the activity was from last hunting season rather than when there is a foot of snow covering all that.

What I have found is that traditional non-snow trails are ignored in deep winter as the deer wander looking for food. And speaking of food, there is absolutely no similarity between a deer's diet now vs. the diet during hunting season. What I am seeing right now is the tips of spruce trees being browsed, and some of the tips of red osier being munched, and seed clusters of staghorn sumac and some of the low-growing maple tips. None of which is given a second glance by deer in the fall when there is a fresh drop of acorns or apples, or grasslands or ag crops to feed on. Current tracks and trails reflect the different feeding habits and totally ignore the traditional fall trails. So when I see a trail of several deer walking together across my front yard heading for the bird feeder, that doesn't mean that next fall I should have a stand there..... lol.

Bedding is now more related to protection from the elements, where in the fall the deer's bedding concern is more related to safety, cover and proximity to fall food sources. So noting where a deer is bedding right now is pretty useless info when hunting season rolls around.

Yes, if you want to look for those pinch-points, funnels and hillside benches, and other traditional land features that draw deer, now is a good time to find those kinds of things. They stand out well in a woods uncluttered by foliage. If you want some kind of sense of deer populations, a good snow cover is a good time to do that. But, if you are looking for meaningful deer sign from rut and travel, wait until there is bare-ground conditions. If you are looking for feeding and bedding locations, don't waste your time checking those out during winter because they will not represent anything about fall (hunting) feeding and bedding conditions.

For me, it would be a huge mistake to base stand selection based on what the deer are doing in the dead of winter unless I was hunting in those kinds of conditions. Deer are creatures that adapt to current conditions and are driven by their current diet. So my more meaningful scouting is done as close to hunting time as possible. By the way, I do a lot of in-season scouting. Stand selection is based on looking for concentrations of acorns or an occasional wild apple tree that is bearing heavy, or fresh heavily used trails with fresh tracks on them, or even a few sightings, or now we have trail cams to provide current info. Yes, I do keep an eye out at all times of the year for rut sign from prior seasons, because those often are repeated acts and locations. But when it comes to current patterns, nothing beats current scouting and that doesn't happen in the dead of winter.

Everyone has to have a system that works for them.

I certainly agree of the value on in-season scouting, but I whole-heartedly believe your view on scouting at this time of the season, even with a foot of snow, is a missed opportunity. I'm not going to debate the merits why because you and I don't agree on much and likely never will, but my prior post still stands as evidence of why this time of year is valuable. I'll just leave it at you have a system that works for you, and my post-season scouting works for me.

This is purely for informational purposes, but do you know if any of the mature bucks you targeted (or knew were in the area for hunting purposes) are still alive after this season?

Edited January 9, 2013 by phade

[MountainHunter]

This falls rub clusters and rub lines in relation to likely fall bedding area's, typical fall food sources, prevailing wind direction and land structure can all be put to good use right now.

[G-Man]

Normally i would say now is a good time to locate rubs, rub lines, access your deer herd survivors, and unknown food sources, but with complete lack of mast this year(soft and hard) deer are really in bad shape (contrary to looking good thought so they must be healthy) checked a road kill recently no fat at all and 2-3 months to go. its bad enought here where deer are diggin up the lawn looking for food something they haven't done in 20 years. the patterns you've seen this year now will prolly not be repeated unless you have similar conditions, same with a rub line that is still active, it may not be used next year as the food source situation changes.. find the food find the deer.... What you can do now is become more familiar with the lay of the land, looking for funnels/ pinchpoints. then before season a quick check of those areas will let you know if they are in use. Also now is the time to open up your shooting lanes as the deer have 9 months to get use to the cuts, (cut back 2 ft further than u have so new spring /summer growth doesn't fill in what you trim)

Edited January 9, 2013 by G-Man

[Doc]

This is purely for informational purposes, but do you know if any of the mature bucks you targeted (or knew were in the area for hunting purposes) are still alive after this season?

Very likely I will know before the start of the next season at a time that tells me that he not only survived the last gun season, but also the winter and the cars. Look, I am not saying that winter scouting has no value. I am simply saying that most of what is truly important is buried under the snow right now. I'm also saying that current deer movement and activities are totally different right now than they will be when next season rolls around (for reasons I have already posted).

[Doc]

Normally i would say now is a good time to locate rubs, rub lines, access your deer herd survivors, and unknown food sources, but with complete lack of mast this year(soft and hard) deer are really in bad shape (contrary to looking good thought so they must be healthy) checked a road kill recently no fat at all and 2-3 months to go. its bad enought here where deer are diggin up the lawn looking for food something they haven't done in 20 years. the patterns you've seen this year now will prolly not be repeated unless you have similar conditions, same with a rub line that is still active, it may not be used next year as the food source situation changes.. find the food find the deer.... What you can do now is become more familiar with the lay of the land, looking for funnels/ pinchpoints. then before season a quick check of those areas will let you know if they are in use. Also now is the time to open up your shooting lanes as the deer have 9 months to get use to the cuts, (cut back 2 ft further than u have so new spring /summer growth doesn't fill in what you trim)

We had the same problem with the mast crop this year as you mentioned. No acorns (not even the red oaks), no apples, not much of anything. Amazingly, the does that I got were fairly well layered with fat. Since we have zero agriculture here, I am not sure what they fattened up on, but it still seems like they were heading into winter in pretty good rig. So I am hopeful that they will survive the winter ok. Right now they are feeding on the traditional winter browse which while it may have limited nutrition, it has always brought them through previous winters pretty well ..... especially if winter doesn't hang on extra long during that critical springtime.

I hope that roadkill that you checked is not typical of your deer herd. That could spell a larger than usual winter kill. Hopefully next year will get us back to the normal mast situation. We don't need a bumper crop, but I do rely on at least some acorns and apples for food patterns. We don't have much else here in the valley.

[phade]

Very likely I will know before the start of the next season at a time that tells me that he not only survived the last gun season, but also the winter and the cars. Look, I am not saying that winter scouting has no value. I am simply saying that most of what is truly important is buried under the snow right now. I'm also saying that current deer movement and activities are totally different right now than they will be when next season rolls around (for reasons I have already posted).

Do you target "mature" bucks or are you more a recreational/brown it is down/anything goes hunter? Nothing is wrong with either end of the spectrum, imo, as people have differing desires. I just wonder whether the purpose for hunting causes the difference in scouting philosiphies.

I do have to say I've never met a hunter who seriously pursues mature bucks who doesn't spend significant time post-season scouting, including times of snowfall, unless they have more money than sense.

At one point, I stopped having the mindset you did. When I did that, and started pursuing mature bucks and investing heavily in post-season scouting, I have a clear line of demarcation where mature bucks started appearing on my wall. Again, nothing wrong with hunting for different reasons, but if you regularly target and knock down mature bucks (using loosely here for NY, as in 3.5+), I'm all ears on how to incorporate your tactics into the system I use. You can never stop learning.

[Doc]

Actually, I target the best deer that I judge to be in the area and that also includes a doe here and there also.

But what drives my scouting philosophy is the reality that I share my time with other activities and interests, and I have to maximize the efficiency of my time afield. I also find that I can cover a lot more ground in a lot less time when the ground is bare. So, that all means that when I go scouting, it is usually at a time that yields the most information per hour of scouting. Looking at non-hunting winter deer patterns and wandering around unable to see sign that I am looking for because it is buried under a foot or more of snow is not the best use of my time. So I look at and find signs of last years rut and patterns and trails more toward the spring when the snow is just coming off. It all stands out like the pages of a book at that time of year. And also the time just prior to hunting season begins to tell the patterns of the coming year, and also starts a picture of current food sources rather than survival foods of the previous winter. Also, whatever I learn at that time of year pertains to local deer that are true residents of my area and not winter yarding transplants that may be miles from their fall territories. Yes, there is a method to my madness. It involves efficiency in using my scouting time. Oh, let's throw in a nifty pun ...... "The biggest bang for the buck". I do believe that more intense scouting trips at a time of year where everything is open to inspection is the most efficient way to spend my scouting hours. But then ... that's just me.

[phade]

Good to know. So, would you say that you don't necessarily target mature bucks with regularity, then, and just take what is out there? I just want to make sure we're not talking apples to oranges here.

Edited January 9, 2013 by phade

[adkbuck]

I'd say Doc has it right. What he says rings true. In my areas the deer move to lower ground during the winter. During the thaws and in the early spring are more efficient times to scout.

[phade]

Awesome. I know nothing.

[Doc]

Good to know. So, would you say that you don't necessarily target mature bucks with regularity, then, and just take what is out there? I just want to make sure we're not talking apples to oranges here.

No, I mean exactly what I said. I target what I percieve to be the best deer in the area.

So "great mature buck hunter" .... lol. Tell me what marvelous things you learn with your deep snow scouting missions that accounts for your amazing expertise. Like you said "we can never stop learning".

[phade]

No, I mean exactly what I said. I target what I percieve to be the best deer in the area.

So "great mature buck hunter" .... lol. Tell me what marvelous things you learn with your deep snow scouting missions that accounts for your amazing expertise. Like you said "we can never stop learning".

Hey Goober, read my first post in this thread.