Upstate Property Taxes

[landtracdeerhunter]

Let's face it people ... we don't ever really own the land and buildings. We just rent that stuff from the government. We pay the rent (taxes). They (the government landlord) tell us what we are going to use the land for and what we are going to have on it and what it is going to look like (zoning). Fall behind on your rent (taxes) and they will evict you. Put up something that is not government approved and they will fine you and make you tear it down.

So this idea of land ownership is simply a myth. Where you live and what kinds of services you have and how free-spending your local government and school system is, determines how high your rent (tax) is going to be. Oh, and lucky us, we get to pay off a mortgage on top of that. What a deal!

Bullseye!

[sits in trees]

I was looking at some houses upstate in the Chemung County area and i can not believe how much property taxes are up there! i mean the pricing on houses are very good, newer constructions for around the 250K mark on anywhere from 1.5 - 5 acres or so but the taxes are 6-9k? WTH is with that?? i thought taxes up there were like 2-3k... LI taxes are 6 or 7K plus on houses well over the 3-350k mark. a home with property up there assessed for like 180K is 7K in taxes a year, how does that even make sense? on 180K...

Any counties up there where taxes are cheaper?

yea Long Island boy and with all that you get to maintain your own well and septic system, and when either one of them craps you can be in for as much as 1500-10k for a well pump or new well, plus labor, depending how deep. and that place where your poo, poo goes, well when that fails you could be in for 10, 20k or even more with DEP approvals and engineering on a new leach field etc, and triple any of that if you live in the NYC watershed.

oh you also gotta get rid of your own garbage up here, thats about 70 to 100 bucks a month since you downstaters didnt want us burning our trash anymore. yea and most folks up here have to have a way to clear snow, that involves a 25 thousand dollar tractor, and knowing how to fix it to plow yer road when it snows. and your gonna need a real lawn tractor to mow your little 5 acres of heaven(4K) not one of those 800 dollar home depot specials.

got news for you, dont move or buy in upstate NY unless you have money, LI is much cheaper. ive been up here for 10 years and would never leave it or consider moving back down to the sandbar but cheaper it aint..

[phade]

The demands of many rural counties without urban areas to support are levied partially because there are so many tax breaks for heavy ag and other "natural" business along the lines of logging, etc. Thus residential zones get hammered with taxes to support the base. If say 50% (just a random number) of the land in said area is in ag with tax breaks, then that income has to come from the remaining 50%. Pair a rural county with heavy ag AND a distressed urban area such as Chemung...and BAM! Break out the Vaseline.

I support farms no doubt, they're integral to upstate NY. It's just part of why residents in a home have such high taxes.

[Five Seasons]

this state sucks. The property taxes in most other states are nowhere near what we pay. And the higher your taxes are, the more your monthly payment is. A simple formula for a 30 year mortgage. Every $100 is 30k in mortgage. Thats a lot of home. Now divide your taxes by 12 and you'll be amazed.

The benefit though I suppose is that the cost of housing due to some of the ruralness of part of the state isn't so bad.

Edited March 6, 2013 by Belo

[BizCT]

Too many people live beyond their means. Nobody should be taking a 30yr mortgage. Cut back on other things and take a 15yr, then pay above your mortgage payment as much as you can. Very easily that mortgage becomes < 10 years. In my opinion, you shouldn't be drinking $5 cups of coffee if you have a 30yr mortgage. Same goes for car payments. Buy a solid used car for $10k if you can't afford to pay cash for one that is $40k.

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[Five Seasons]

lol. with that logic, we should all pay cash, or just flush it down the drain and rent.

When you're first starting out a 30 year mortgage isn't so bad. Most people can't even afford the 20% dp. However, as your income levels rise, pay off the loan quicker. Nothing prevents you from paying off a 30 year mortgage in 15 years. Your rate might not be as great, but @ 3.75, it's not all that bad. But if you sign up for a 15 year and cant pay it off you lose your home.

There's a big difference in a mid 20 year old couple and a couple in their late 30's. If we stay in our home (second we've owned now) we fully intend to increase our payments as our income rises. We already pay an additional amount a month to equal an annual extra monthly payment. But most people dont stay in a home for 30 years anymore and dont forget your interest is tax deductible.

[TPhunter]

We just refinanced for a 30 yr mortgage to get a better intrest rate #1, but also to build a garage...As it turned out we also lowered our payment by $100.00 and once the garage is done we will have a nice little nest egg to draw off of now that I'm being furloughed by the Federal Government...So taking a 30 yr mortgage really helped us. We were just lucky that our house had increased in value since we bought it.

[Geno C]

yea Long Island boy and with all that you get to maintain your own well and septic system, and when either one of them craps you can be in for as much as 1500-10k for a well pump or new well, plus labor, depending how deep. and that place where your poo, poo goes, well when that fails you could be in for 10, 20k or even more with DEP approvals and engineering on a new leach field etc, and triple any of that if you live in the NYC watershed.

oh you also gotta get rid of your own garbage up here, thats about 70 to 100 bucks a month since you downstaters didnt want us burning our trash anymore. yea and most folks up here have to have a way to clear snow, that involves a 25 thousand dollar tractor, and knowing how to fix it to plow yer road when it snows. and your gonna need a real lawn tractor to mow your little 5 acres of heaven(4K) not one of those 800 dollar home depot specials.

got news for you, dont move or buy in upstate NY unless you have money, LI is much cheaper. ive been up here for 10 years and would never leave it or consider moving back down to the sandbar but cheaper it aint..

LI boy?? i have septic out here on the island at my house and have to worry about that backing into my house and maintaining that as well... i dont have sewer in my town... and you refer to "you down staters" as if i was the one who doesnt want you to burn garbage, I CAN CARE LESS WTH you burn... i have a commercial 48" walk behind to cut my lawn and works wonders, im not looking for 5 acres open field first off, im looking for maybe an acre with the rest wooded which i have found plenty. if you think you pay more up there YOU ARE NUTS... your mortgages up there are not 3k a month just for your house on small 1/4 acre lot with a 1500 sq foot home so keep dreaming. you sound hell bent over what you pay but dont compare your monthlys to out here. i was comparing taxes and taxes only. in that aspect its comparable but trust me, you dont want my bills... i have a .5 acre lot, 2000 sq ft home built in the 60s, my taxes and mortgage is crazy, take it from me...

[Doc]

We just refinanced for a 30 yr mortgage to get a better intrest rate #1, but also to build a garage...As it turned out we also lowered our payment by $100.00 and once the garage is done we will have a nice little nest egg to draw off of now that I'm being furloughed by the Federal Government...So taking a 30 yr mortgage really helped us. We were just lucky that our house had increased in value since we bought it.

Back in the mid 70's, I would have killed for some of the interest rates that mortgages are going for today. I was lucky to get an 8-1/2% and shortly after I got that people were signing up for 13% mortgages. With the super-low rates of today, I would recommend that people stretch their mortgages out as long as possible. So you wind up with lower payments because of the longer mortgage? Take that extra money saved on payments each month and sock it into tax deferred retirement accounts. Modest, safe, well-diversified investment, returns and growth are beating the mortgage interest. Use the bank's cheap money to bankroll some of your retirement funds.

[virgil]

I just closed on a re-fi last night at 3.5% for 20 years. Shaved 2 1/2 years of the term and lowered the payment by $200 per month. Nothing out of pocket. Seems to be the only opportunity to save a few bucks these days. If you're in the position to refinance, do it.

[hunter49]

Well in Erie co. all our taxes go to NYC. welfare . There is talk of splitting N.Y into 2 states making Westchester co & NYC its own state . works for me! I said that 30 yrs. ago. I beleive our (rural) end of the state which King Andy refers to us as would be much better off. A local state Rep. is taking a survey to see how many people would be for it. He has my vote.

[virgil]

Good luck with that plan hunter49. 'Downstate' pays far more to NYS in taxes than it receives, while 'upstate' pays less and receives more.

[BizCT]

Well in Erie co. all our taxes go to NYC. welfare . There is talk of splitting N.Y into 2 states making Westchester co & NYC its own state . works for me! I said that 30 yrs. ago. I beleive our (rural) end of the state which King Andy refers to us as would be much better off. A local state Rep. is taking a survey to see how many people would be for it. He has my vote.

I heard "upstate" will be a new province in Canada starting in 2018.

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[virgil]

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Edited March 6, 2013 by virgil

[TPhunter]

Doc our payments are lower due to the interest rate of 3.79%...With all of the work we have done to our house the values has tripled (no lie) from what we paid for it 10 years ago... A lot of sweat-equity and careful planning really paid off!

Virgil...That's a damned good rate!

[Geno C]

Back in the mid 70's, I would have killed for some of the interest rates that mortgages are going for today. I was lucky to get an 8-1/2% and shortly after I got that people were signing up for 13% mortgages. With the super-low rates of today, I would recommend that people stretch their mortgages out as long as possible. So you wind up with lower payments because of the longer mortgage? Take that extra money saved on payments each month and sock it into tax deferred retirement accounts. Modest, safe, well-diversified investment, returns and growth are beating the mortgage interest. Use the bank's cheap money to bankroll some of your retirement funds.

Doc its a numbers game bud... yeah your Interest was higher but your housing was dirt cheap and in the 40 years you owned the amount of equity you would have made is alot higher then what my generation would get. yeah our int is lower but houses are 3-4 times higher then said 30-40 years ago.

now a days we pay top dollar and our market generation will see no where near the property increase in years to come.

[Geno C]

Good luck with that plan hunter49. 'Downstate' pays far more to NYS in taxes than it receives, while 'upstate' pays less and receives more.

this is true!

we have more per capita and pay far more in and receive less out.

[HectorBuckBuster]

Doc, every word Doc said spot on. I pay over $10,000 a year on my properties. I would never be able to afford my farm land if it was not agriculture assessed. Remember if it was not for agriculture assessments how much land would have been sold off for housing and lost to hunting. Ok, I just took one parcel property that I own, which is 105..3 acres. This years school taxes where $1567.65 and County Taxes where $1045.47 for a total of $2613.12 this is agriculture assessed. If this farm land was not agriculture assessed my school taxes would be $2858.15 and County taxes would be $2061.83 for a total of $4919.98. Remember these taxes are just on a farm land parcel no buildings at ll..

[Geno C]

Too many people live beyond their means. Nobody should be taking a 30yr mortgage. Cut back on other things and take a 15yr, then pay above your mortgage payment as much as you can. Very easily that mortgage becomes < 10 years. In my opinion, you shouldn't be drinking $5 cups of coffee if you have a 30yr mortgage. Same goes for car payments. Buy a solid used car for $10k if you can't afford to pay cash for one that is $40k.

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where do you get these figures from?? lol seriously...

take a 15 year term? so with a mortgage and property tax with a monthly of just that on say a 315K house, plus roll your closing costs of 16K into your note and at 4%int your roughly monthly would be around 2800 JUST for mortgage and interest at a 30 year term at a 15 year term it almost double. 90% of middle class CAN NOT afford that. remember, the biggest reason this country is going down the tubes is due to banks and the housing market... i mean if people walked to work, lived on rice and beans and did nothing but stay home it still wouldnt work not tomention no one would spend money outside of living and the world as we know would END.

besides, you can knock a 30 down to 20 by making 1 principle payment each year...

[BizCT]

Its just my opinion.

I don't plan on working past 58-60, I want to enjoy life, I only live once. I dont want to spend 30 years paying off a house. Why buy a $1MM house when the $700k house is sufficient?

I know a lot of people who are late 20's making $200-$300k per year and paying $4-5k a month in rent and spend freely, but don't have much else to show for it. I think its stupid. On the flip side, I know plenty of girls who are "$50K millionaires". They make $50K per year, but buy $1K handbags and pay crazy monthly fees to drive a beamer. Thats the equivalent of a movie star who makes $10M per year spending $200,000 on a handbag. It makes me laugh.

Of course, everyone splurges. I do with hunting trips lol.

[BizCT]

15- vs 30-year Mortgage Illustration

$500K @ 30 years @ 5% = $2,684 = $966,240 total paid.

$500K @ 15 years @ 4.5% = $3,824 = $688,320 total paid.

Total Savings = $277,920 + you own your home in half the time and can now put your $ towards your kids education, your retirement, etc.

Edited March 6, 2013 by Biz-R-OWorld

[growalot]

We went 15 year and then payed an extra 200 a month principle when the kids got out of college...55 no mortgage...but we went with a small home and never invested in it as far as remodeling...keeping taxes lower..Now we can start fixing it the way we want...nothing extravagant..to keep taxes down....Though we did add several more parcels to the original 9 1/2acres...

It boggles my mind when I hear/read ppl talking about 250-400k homes.....I don't get it...but I also don't get over priced cars or designer any thing and clothes...what a waste...I've never had a need to impress anyone...Thank heavens..

PS.... that wasn't any sort of dig to anyone

[BizCT]

"It boggles my mind when I hear/read ppl talking about 250-400k homes"

I wish they were available.

You can get this piece of ____ http://newyork.craig...3649315368.html for $320K. 2BR/2BA, 1200 sq. ft. and pay $1100+/month in maintenance (includes taxes) on top of your mortgage (if taking one). Yippee! and don't even think about having kids, because they will get tortured in school when other kids find out they live in the "poor neigborhood".

Edited March 6, 2013 by Biz-R-OWorld

[sits in trees]

LI boy?? i have septic out here on the island at my house and have to worry about that backing into my house and maintaining that as well... i dont have sewer in my town... and you refer to "you down staters" as if i was the one who doesnt want you to burn garbage, I CAN CARE LESS WTH you burn... i have a commercial 48" walk behind to cut my lawn and works wonders, im not looking for 5 acres open field first off, im looking for maybe an acre with the rest wooded which i have found plenty. if you think you pay more up there YOU ARE NUTS... your mortgages up there are not 3k a month just for your house on small 1/4 acre lot with a 1500 sq foot home so keep dreaming. you sound hell bent over what you pay but dont compare your monthlys to out here. i was comparing taxes and taxes only. in that aspect its comparable but trust me, you dont want my bills... i have a .5 acre lot, 2000 sq ft home built in the 60s, my taxes and mortgage is crazy, take it from me...

Geno you have a septic tank and a precast concrete ring with a lid in sandy soil that can be completely replaced for less than 4K. Up here you have to contact the county dept of health and the DEP to even talk and make appointments for them to maybe talk to you about your proposed septic project. Then the DEP and county dept of health come to your land and do a perk test which you pay 500 bucks for. once that is complete you then head to an engineer who will draw you plans for a septic tank and leach field after he does his inspections, 3K easy for the blueprint. If your soil isnt optimum for septic absorbtion, which the DEP will let you know after a month or 2 you will be required to bring in anywhere from 20 to several hundred hundred cubic yards of soil to make it that way. I have put in several septic systems here in upstate NY with the winner being in the NYC water shed at a cost of 37 thousand bucks,and the cheapest at 18K, yea no kidding.

Taxes up here like you stated are higher and when you talk about what your mortages are(3K a month) means nothing, we have 2million dollar houses up here and we have 100 thousand dollar houses up here too, just not stacked on top of each other like LI, your mortage is all relative to the value of what ever home you buy. your taxes and mortage may be crazy, but whos arent? people on long island have this misconception that upstate is cheap and that is nowhere near true. in many if not most aspects it will cost you more to live up here than on LI. Im not even getting into things like road maintenance or having to drive 40 mins to food shop or buy a 2x4, you will spend 3 times the amount in auto maintance and fuel up here too, your average upstater puts 30K a year on his or her veh easy...

OH also if your planning on buying a second home up here be prepared to even pay more in taxes when the tax assessor finds out you from Long Island, hee, hee, thats alittle bonus LI'ers get to pay to help out our highway depts.

[HectorBuckBuster]

Wow, 20 year old making $200,000-$300,000 jobs a year. Up here I bet there are only a hand full of jobs that even come close to that pay scale.