Antler Restriction Bill?

[NYBuckHunter27]

On Wednesday Morning the Assembly Environmental Committee will be considering bill number A7550 which enacts a Yearling Buck Protection Program with antler restrictions. any truth to this? and if so, is it statewide?

 

[WNYBuckHunter]

Its true, and its for units 7M and 7P and part of 3M. Looks to have gone through the Senate as well.

 

http://open.nysenate.gov/legislation/bill/A7550-2013

 

[ATbuckhunter]

Im in full support of it but I also see the other side of the argument. 

[Ford]

Im in full support of it but I also see the other side of the argument. 

 

 

Wow, I had no idea. My place is in 7m. Cool.

 

There are people passionate on either side. I was on the fence, leaning to no AR's.

 

I have changed my mind. And I understand the other side's view. I think there were some threads here that got heated over it.

 

But I like it, I have my reasons, all the obvious ones.

[SteveB]

Yep - we need help to be able to shoot those massive mature 2 year olds.

[growalot]

Living in an area of unaddressed poaching problems...I say this asking how many sting operations have you read about in much of region 8?..read of lots down state...not to mention the big  T  word...I have real concerns about  AR's if they go to state wide.

On the other side of that...being picky about what I shoot and having ppl around us shooting at running deer like they are on a skeet range..it would be a good thing...only if I don't see an increase of the dead abandoned spikes and little guys we see around here.

[Doc]

Well, that's good that they have finally put the issue before the legislators. Now the proponents and opponents of the concept can vent their opinions to their legislators instead of filling pages and pages in the internet forums. ............Yeah right ... like that's going to happen ... lol.

[Witty]

I would like to see an antler restriction in the area I hunt. I can't speak for other parts of the state but I think it would be good for the 4A, 6R and 5R WMAs.

[phade]

I still cannot fathom why AR is necessary. If it is not necessary, it should not be a law/regulation.

[mmkay]

There are pros / cons and good people on both sides of the issue, but if you hunt for venison, you soon find that you can boil those horns all you want, you still won't get soup.  I'm against AR's because I believe smaller less desirable bucks will survive and breed.  Deer with better genes will be shot and not be available to breed.  I've taken plenty of tens and eights off of public land (Putnam and Duchess)...it just takes time in the stand and the willingness to pass on spikes / 4pts.  Most of the hunters are out of the woods within 4 days of opening day where I hunt.  They shot their does or spike and are now home.  Just wait, the big boys tend to survive the annual march of the pumpkins.  Walk a few MILES in find some thick nasty cover and you’ll get a large buck.

 

 

I've been using the following method for years.  I take no deer smaller than the deer the year before.  If I shot a 6pt last year, I'll shoot a 8 pt this year.  If I don't see a 8pt, than I shoot nothing.  next year I start at a 6 point.

 

[WNYBuckHunter]

I do understand the reasoning and science behind ARs, and they do produce results. I am not in support of making them mandatory. I believe you will get a better result through continued education rather than forcing things down peoples throats.

[RangerClay]

I do understand the reasoning and science behind ARs, and they do produce results. I am not in support of making them mandatory. I believe you will get a better result through continued education rather than forcing things down peoples throats.

 

+1 Amen

[RangerClay]

Its true, and its for units 7M and 7P and part of 3M. Looks to have gone through the Senate as well.

 

http://open.nysenate.gov/legislation/bill/A7550-2013

 

I have read the link.  What does this bill mean?  Will this be a 3 on one side rule like the AR zones to the southeast?

[WNYBuckHunter]

Yep, its an expansion of the current program.

[RangerClay]

Yep, its an expansion of the current program.

 

BS!!   Why can't these trophy hunters leave the rest of us alone.  You hunt your way on your hill and I will hunt my way on mine. 

[SplitG2]

NY has never been a deer management state and going about it with just AR is the wrong approach.  It all depends on their agenda?  Which I'm not sure really what it is? 

[WNYBuckHunter]

Its called the easy way out. From my experiences of talking to people about the subject and watching the debating in forums, etc, it seems like the people that push it the most are the people that dont seem to have the self control to pass on younger deer without a law in place. They also usually are the same people that are not educated in the different ways to tell a younger deer from an older one, so they rely on an obvious, but pretty unreliable way to guess, number of points. Again, these are my observations and I dont feel that everyone that is pro mandatory ARs is the same.

 

 

 

 

[Witty]

Yep, its an expansion of the current program.

BS!! Why can't these trophy hunters leave the rest of us alone. You hunt your way on your hill and I will hunt my way on mine.

Problem is the same deer that walks on your hill is the same deer I just passed on my hill. Bucks can travel up to six miles in one day looking for a doe in heat. I'm not looking to hunt trophies but I'd like to see more 2.5 and old deer walking around. It would improve buck to doe ratios and make hunting better overall.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

There are pros / cons and good people on both sides of the issue, but if you hunt for venison, you soon find that you can boil those horns all you want, you still won't get soup.  I'm against AR's because I believe smaller less desirable bucks will survive and breed.  Deer with better genes will be shot and not be available to breed.  I've taken plenty of tens and eights off of public land (Putnam and Duchess)...it just takes time in the stand and the willingness to pass on spikes / 4pts.  Most of the hunters are out of the woods within 4 days of opening day where I hunt.  They shot their does or spike and are now home.  Just wait, the big boys tend to survive the annual march of the pumpkins.  Walk a few MILES in find some thick nasty cover and you’ll get a large buck.

 

 

I've been using the following method for years.  I take no deer smaller than the deer the year before.  If I shot a 6pt last year, I'll shoot a 8 pt this year.  If I don't see a 8pt, than I shoot nothing.  next year I start at a 6 point.

Just a couple points. If you are starting at a 6 point next year, givine your method, does that mean the biggest buch you have taken to date is a 4 or 5 point?

 

On the genetics. passing or taking  a small racked buck will do nothing to the gene pool of a free ranging wild herd. The racks of a 1.5 year old is no indication of it's potential. it could have been a late dropped fawn. nutrition? there are many reasons the first rack can be small. You can have the best genetic rack buck in the woods doing the breeding and it still only contributes half the make up of the following years offspring. the doe contributes the other half and there is really no visible indicators of what they will be tossing into the pot.

 

The one thing that will produce the best results for heftier deer and bigger racked bucks and that is age. The best genes in the world will do nothing if they are taken at 1.5. That said I agree with WNY that education my preferred avenue rather than a mandate of AR's. I hate to see it expanded and I still don't understand why they are needed.If what the the proponents say, "the majority support it", then why is it needed?

 

Talk about peer pressure. How about DEC puts out a listing of hunters and what they take each year. ---Joe Smith got a 5 point with his bow and a 8 point with his gun and 2 does fawns wit the ML.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

 and make hunting better overall.

What you said prior to this is fact. This last part is opinion and not shared by those that oppose AR. And that is really the sticky point in it all. Depends on what each of our definitions of "better" is.

[Witty]

<br />and make hunting better overall.<br />What you said prior to this is fact. This last part is opinion and not shared by those that oppose AR. And that is really the sticky point in it all. Depends on what each of our definitions of "better" is.

<br />True, My definition of a good hunt to someone else's could be miles apart. I believe seeing the game you are after is a good hunt. Being able to watch and learn how deer react in different situations is fascinating to me. Other people might feel they need to kill something to have a good hunt. I like killing animals as much as the next guy but I don't need to do it to enjoy my hunt. I agree everyone hunts for different reason, but I always found it cheaper to go to the super market then to hunt for my meals. Edited June 11, 2013 by Witty

[jjb4900]

Its called the easy way out. From my experiences of talking to people about the subject and watching the debating in forums, etc, it seems like the people that push it the most are the people that dont seem to have the self control to pass on younger deer without a law in place. They also usually are the same people that are not educated in the different ways to tell a younger deer from an older one, so they rely on an obvious, but pretty unreliable way to guess, number of points. Again, these are my observations and I dont feel that everyone that is pro mandatory ARs is the same.

I always felt that those who pushed for AR's were those who had large parcels of land and could pass on smaller bucks because they knew that the other's who hunted the land had the same objective's and that more than likely the small deer they passed would survive and be around next year as bigger deer............

Edited June 11, 2013 by jjb4900

[Culvercreek hunt club]

JJB. if they had land big enough to hold the deer and had control over the ones hunting there they wouldn't need regulations for AR. They would be self imposed and no need for legislation.

[phade]

<br />True, My definition of a good hunt to someone else's could be miles apart. I believe seeing the game you are after is a good hunt. Being able to watch and learn how deer react in different situations is fascinating to me. Other people might feel they need to kill something to have a good hunt. I like killing animals as much as the next guy but I don't need to do it to enjoy my hunt. I agree everyone hunts for different reason, but I always found it cheaper to go to the super market then to hunt for my meals.

 

 

When was the last time you picked up some venison tenderloins from Wegman's? How about the last time you double-lunged a hefty black angus?

 

Not always about being cheap when attempting to provide food on the table.

[phade]

NY is so misguided.

 

Instead of season structures and tag allocations to adhere to sound management philosophies, they consider something they've come out and stated isn't necessary from a biological standpoint. I understand desire for trophy bucks, but the other biologically superior regs. will do that and not remove choice, so to speak, as A/R does and always will.