Crossbow Update A283

[Doc]

For people that arent going to practice as much, yes, Id rather see them use something that requires less practice. When did I ever say the contrary?

That pretty much says it all about the fact that crossbows have definite technological benefits, and that's all I am saying.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Of course they do, no one, including myself has been saying differently. You are completely discounting the advantages that compounds have over crossbows, and you are also ignoring the FACT that both weapons have the same effective range, therefore requiring the same skills to even get the intended target into a position for a shot.

[Doc]

While I see your view of things as a bit noble, the problem with it is that what we have been doing has been causing a decline in hunter numbers. I love the sport of bow hunting as much as you do, and I want it to continue for my kids and their kids. I realize that if changes arent made, and participation doesnt increase, our numbers will become so small that we will have little to no influence in the political arena, which unfortunately, needs to be there.

 

I also see the crossbow for what it is, and see what changes occurred in states that have already legalized it. I just dont see it making a negative impact. Its not a fix all, but if it brings new hunters into the sport, and keeps some in the game a few years longer, with no negative impact, Im all for it. 

Relating to the bolded quote above, I can only say that current numbers say that as long as we don't screw it up, you have nothing to worry about as far as bow hunting continuing for your kids and their kids. Bow hunting is a very healthy and sustaining activity in NYS and is really in no need of "fixing". Probably doesn't serve bow hunting all that much to simply transfer gun hunters into bow season via a hybrid weapon such as crossbows. At least I can't see the benefit. If you are worried about over-all hunter recruitment and retention, then I suggest you look at gun season.

[WNYBuckHunter]

As far as what needs fixing is the recruitment of the overall sport of hunting, not bow hunting particularly.

[josephmrtn]

Of course they do, no one, including myself has been saying differently. You are completely discounting the advantages that compounds have over crossbows, and you are also ignoring the FACT that both weapons have the same effective range, therefore requiring the same skills to even get the intended target into a position for a shot.

Exactly

[WNYBuckHunter]

Hey belo, before I forget about it, are ya up for my challenge? Seeing as all of the equipment developed in the last 30 years is of no real advantage according to you, you should have no problem bagging a deer or two or maybe even more!

[Five Seasons]

i must have missed your challenge in all the hub bub. what is it? if it's recurve, i'm already in the process of getting one from my uncle in an attempt to at least drop a doe.

[Doc]

As far as what needs fixing is the recruitment of the overall sport of hunting, not bow hunting particularly.

No, the bow hunting and muzzle loading parts of hunter recruitment are just fine. It's the gun hunting that is faltering. And I don't think crossbows are going to help them one bit. Yes, perhaps crossbows will coax gun hunters to load up the bow season, but they will not grow over-all numbers.

[Doc]

Of course they do, no one, including myself has been saying differently. You are completely discounting the advantages that compounds have over crossbows, and you are also ignoring the FACT that both weapons have the same effective range, therefore requiring the same skills to even get the intended target into a position for a shot.

I am not discounting or ignoring anything including your previous statement that, "The ONLY people that will see any advantage to a crossbow as far as range is concerned, are newbies and  shooters that have a problem drawing a vertical bow". And of course your revised assertion that the crossbow will help the accuracy of those that refuse to practice, kind of admits that there is some more significant accuracy advantages to be had with a crossbow over the vertical bow than you are willing to admit to. Of course you are trying to have it both ways. I just thought I would bring that to your attention.

[jjb4900]

I think that drawing a bow without being detected is quite possibly one of the greatest challenges of bowhunting , that and having to hold at full draw waiting for the right shot to present itself...those two, and being able to rest your crossbow on your knee or shooting rest as you watch your target make that slow approach from 100 yards away, are the biggest differences between longbows and crossbows...............

[WNYBuckHunter]

i must have missed your challenge in all the hub bub. what is it? if it's recurve, i'm already in the process of getting one from my uncle in an attempt to at least drop a doe.

 

HAHA, yeah thats why I brought it up again, figured it got lost in the chaos.

 

It was this, since you believe that all of the advancements in the last 30 years have had little effect on the effectiveness of bow hunting, Id like to see you ditch the stands, compound, camo and pick up a recurve and go after them on the ground, wearing old style fatigues or green plaid, etc. I just want to see how well you do, and then come back and tell me how all of the advancements in 30 years havent made us more effective as bow hunters.

[WNYBuckHunter]

No, the bow hunting and muzzle loading parts of hunter recruitment are just fine. It's the gun hunting that is faltering. And I don't think crossbows are going to help them one bit. Yes, perhaps crossbows will coax gun hunters to load up the bow season, but they will not grow over-all numbers.

 

the numbers overall are down. There are people that dont hunt gun season because they perceive it as this dangerous circus of gunfire, but they dont have the time or capability to put into a vertical bow. I know quite a few of them. A crossbow would be a great recruitment tool for those people. Then you get the guys that dont enjoy gun season but can no longer keep it going with a bow. Crossbow becomes a perfect retention tool for them.

 

Like I said, not the silver bullet fix, but a part of the overall.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I am not discounting or ignoring anything including your previous statement that, "The ONLY people that will see any advantage to a crossbow as far as range is concerned, are newbies and  shooters that have a problem drawing a vertical bow". And of course your revised assertion that the crossbow will help the accuracy of those that refuse to practice, kind of admits that there is some more significant accuracy advantages to be had with a crossbow over the vertical bow than you are willing to admit to. Of course you are trying to have it both ways. I just thought I would bring that to your attention.

 

Stop twisting what I say Doc. This is exactly what you do when you get backed into a corner.

 

What I said was that a crossbow does offer accuracy with less practice than a compound, therefore making it more accurate for those that are newbies (I include people that dont practice in that) and those that are disabled or otherwise cant draw a regular bow. I also said that there are advantages to a compound over a crossbow, and there are. Noise, bulkyness, quicker to get another arrow nocked, etc.

 

I have never contradicted myself, and I dare you to show quotes where I did.

[Doc]

Stop twisting what I say Doc. This is exactly what you do when you get backed into a corner.

 

What I said was that a crossbow does offer accuracy with less practice than a compound, therefore making it more accurate for those that are newbies (I include people that dont practice in that) and those that are disabled or otherwise cant draw a regular bow. I also said that there are advantages to a compound over a crossbow, and there are. Noise, bulkyness, quicker to get another arrow nocked, etc.

 

I have never contradicted myself, and I dare you to show quotes where I did.

Ha-ha .... I am not in any imaginary corner (Can't imagine where you came up with that stupid comment) and I am not twisting anything you are saying. I am simply quoting your own words and letting them stand on their own for others to interpret.

[Five Seasons]

HAHA, yeah thats why I brought it up again, figured it got lost in the chaos.

 

It was this, since you believe that all of the advancements in the last 30 years have had little effect on the effectiveness of bow hunting, Id like to see you ditch the stands, compound, camo and pick up a recurve and go after them on the ground, wearing old style fatigues or green plaid, etc. I just want to see how well you do, and then come back and tell me how all of the advancements in 30 years havent made us more effective as bow hunters.

 

clueless as usual. all those advancement have made us overall better hunters with both gun and bow. so the camo and treestands are all moot points. If it's the weapon in question (which it is), then like I said even before I heard your challenge, I plan to learn and practice either this season or next. I can drop a doe almost everytime im in the woods and I'd relish in taking a deer with a recurve. I would not make it my main bow, but I'd like to take it out once or twice. if I do get enough practice in to feel I'm good enough with one to take a deer without wounding it I will do just that.

 

I also believe that we have hashed and rehashed how a crossbow is different from a bow so I wont even get into it. But I do believe the overall mechanics of a compound vs a recurve are very similar. A recurve to a crossbow are not. Don't even argue with it because we've beaten that horse to death and we're not changing either of our minds.

 

[Five Seasons]

Ha-ha .... I am not in any imaginary corner (Can't imagine where you came up with that stupid comment) and I am not twisting anything you are saying. I am simply quoting your own words and letting them stand on their own for others to interpret.

 

we must have the same problem. I too am always twisting his words and putting them in his mouth. perhaps this will help http://www.monroecc.edu/depts/wac/fac_res/guidelns.htm

 

and relax, it's just a joke

[WNYBuckHunter]

clueless as usual. all those advancement have made us overall better hunters with both gun and bow. so the camo and treestands are all moot points. If it's the weapon in question (which it is), then like I said even before I heard your challenge, I plan to learn and practice either this season or next.

 

 

Hold on, you spout that nonsense and call ME clueless?

 

Let me remind you of what you said...

 

 

as far as gear is considered, making it easier to kill a deer is sort of an interesting topic. My muck boots dont bring in deer, but they do allow me to comfortably cross a stream, remain dry and get to my stand. My ladder sticks don't make it easier to kill a deer, but allow me to safely climb a tree (something we've been doing a long time). New cammo is generally not any better than the old stuff. We just believe the manufacturers who say it is. Nothing stops us from the old tried and true organic soaps, mud and leafs to be just as effective at killing as hunters of 30 years ago.

 

 

I could sit here and break that comment down and point out all of the BS, but I dont really need to because its all completely obvious.

 

So again, if bowhunters (because thats what we are talking about here, not gun hunters) are no more effective than they were 30 years ago, put your money where you mouth is and prove it.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I also believe that we have hashed and rehashed how a crossbow is different from a bow so I wont even get into it. But I do believe the overall mechanics of a compound vs a recurve are very similar. A recurve to a crossbow are not. Don't even argue with it because we've beaten that horse to death and we're not changing either of our minds.

 

No, a crossbow IS a bow. You really should lay off the power trip and stop telling people what they should, shouldnt, can or cant say.

[Arrow Flinger]

A Crossbow isn't a gun or a bow. Its a CROSS between them both. Figuring out which season you should be able to hunt with it is the big question. Gun?...Bow?...Muzzleloader?....I don't know

[jjb4900]

No, a crossbow IS a bow. You really should lay off the power trip and stop telling people what they should, shouldnt, can or cant say.

yes, a crossbow by definition is a bow.......but, one removes several of the difficulty factors that make bow hunting a challenge to many............the simple facts that a crossbow does not require it be drawn in the presence of the animal, can be rested on an object as you peer through the sights as the animal approaches from a distance waiting for the right shot, and requires no muscle strength to hold at full draw, have got to be the biggest reason anti crossbow people say they don't belong in archery season....and I can't say I don't agree.

[WNYBuckHunter]

You can rest a vertical bow while you aim as well, you just need the right stabilizer to do it. The compound has its fair share of advantages over a crossbow as well. Whats your point?

 

Bottom line is that they both kill in the same manor at the same distances.

 

Nobody is trying to force anything on you, you will still have the choice NOT to use a crossbow. You guys must be of the same cloth that wants mandatory antler restrictions so that others arent shooting deer that you think shouldnt be killed.

[WNYBuckHunter]

BTW, crossbows were around a long time before guns were, how is it they are a cross between a gun and anything else?

[jjb4900]

You can rest a vertical bow while you aim as well, you just need the right stabilizer to do it. The compound has its fair share of advantages over a crossbow as well. Whats your point?

 

Bottom line is that they both kill in the same manor at the same distances.

 

Nobody is trying to force anything on you, you will still have the choice NOT to use a crossbow. You guys must be of the same cloth that wants mandatory antler restrictions so that others arent shooting deer that you think shouldnt be killed.

my point is, that those are the reasons anti crossbow hunters say they are of such a great advantage over what many consider traditional bows....and I am not a rabid anti crossbow person, they would have the same effect on the deer season as the youth season did, minimal at best.......I would gladly take crossbow use in archery season over the antler restrictions that are being shoved down some of our throats.

[catskillkid]

I don't know what the big issue is, compound v crossbow. I hunt rifle, bow and muzzleloader. I don't care what weapon I use, I'm a happy hunter as long as I'm in the woods having a great time. I would use a spear & boomerang  if there were seasons for them also.

 

i would bet the boomerang elitists would think the compound bow hunters have an unfair advantage over them.

Edited July 10, 2013 by catskillkid

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I don't know what the big issue is, compound v crossbow. I hunt rifle, bow and muzzleloader. I don't care what weapon I use, I'm a happy hunter as long as I'm in the woods having a great time. I would use a spear & boomerang  if there were seasons for them also.

 

i would bet the boomerang elitists would think the compound bow hunters have an unfair advantage over them.

Agreed, As NYAntler said last year. If they opened a season using a hammer he would be in the woods. I started out gun hunting and got myself into bow after being exposed to it at scout camp. I love to bow hunt and look forward to it more each year. (I think becasue of the practice sessions and it is the first season of the year). But I still love shotgun, Muzzle loader and now hunting with my pistol. I really just love to hunt more than what I am holding in my hand to do it. I couldn't justify buying a crossbow if they opened the season but I would sure find an excuse too if it ended up in it's own season.