Beware of the DEC

[Magicbullet]

Fellow Hunters,

 

On the eve of the 2013 archery season, I would like to share my story with you as well as heed a word of caution.

 

I started hunting 4 or 5 years ago because I have 3 boys ages 15, 14 and 12. Although I was not opposed to hunting, it was just not a tradition in my family. 

 

We all have completed our hunter safety courses as well as the archery safety courses.  I have spent thousands of dollars on shotguns, bows, tree stands hunting clothing and we all get the super sportsman licenses.  I own several parcels of land for hunting and recreation purposes which I invest many hours and dollars posting to improve natural wildlife food sources. 

 

2 years ago while hunting on an elevated berm in a heavily hunted area, I fired 3 20 gauge rounds downward into a recently turned over farm field at a doe and her 2 yearlings.  Directly beyond the deer is forest and further beyond and elevated train tracks.  I struck two of the deer, missing one.  

 

The next day, 2 DEC officers show up at my door to inform me (emphatically) that one of my rounds struck a house some 900 feet beyond the deer. Originally, I was cooperative and supportive.  The problem was that the house that was struck was 900+ feet beyond the deer (1,100+ feet from my shooting position) and the house was 15 degrees to the west of my line of fire.  The DEC agents theory was that I struck a rock in the field that changed not only the direction of the bullet but also the trajectory that lobbed the bullet over a row of 10, 60 ft high pine trees, striking a  maple tree in front of the house continuing through a second story window.  He spent 3 days (with overtime pay) searching the field for a rock that may appear to be struck by a round as evidence, which he never found. 

 

While investigating,he used a laser pointer to line up where the bullet struck the wall in the house and the hole in the window to determine where the round was fired from.  The laser line up directly with a tree stand that was clear view, unobstructed path between the stand and the house.  Relative to my position, the stand was 180 feet to my left (west).  The DEC never contacted the landowner or even tried to find the owner of the tree stand.  The DEC officer concluded that the bullet didn't come from that stand because he didn't find any spent shell casing under the tree stand.  My neighbor to the east, had been pushing deer the day before, one of the hunters in their party hunts with a muzzel loader.  They never contacted this neighbor either.  By the way, the trooper that first responded to the house said in his opinion, it was a muzzel loader round not a 20 gauge.

 

A friend that I had given permission to hunt on my land happen to be in the woods the day the DEC was conducting their investigation told them I was the land owner.  Now they had a name to connect with a bullet, even though they could tie me to the bullet with ballistics.  I was charged with Reckless Endangerment and Shooting over a Public Highway.  I was guilty of hunting in the area within 2 or 3 days of this incident and that I was within 1100 feet of the house.

 

The DEC revoked my license which I appealed and lost.  

 

During the revocation hearing, I told the DEC Lieutenant in charge that if I lost the appeal that i would never hunt again.  Hunting is so much more than harvesting game, its about tradition, its about bonding with my boys, its about enjoying and appreciating nature.  This incident was my 3 boys introduction to hunting in NYS and the DEC practicing environmental law enforcement.  They don't want to hunt any more and are afraid of the DEC.  They saw first hand what could happen to you if you are hunting in the wrong place at the wrong time.  Besides they want to hunt with their father, not just any licensed adult.

 

So beware of the DEC, they are not about facts and enforcing environmental law.   Above all, they are about getting a conviction to justify their existence.  In my case the DEC Officer lied under oath and planted evidence, which I can produce if any one is interested in reviewing. They do not have same burden of proof of all other law enforcement agencies.  If futilely attempt to appeal a conviction, the DEC NYS Commissioner is the judge and jury.

 

Best of Luck

 

Magic Bullet

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cabin Fever]

Magicbullet, on 30 Sept 2013 - 09:29 AM, said:

The DEC officer concluded that the bullet didn't come from that stand because he didn't find any spent shell casing under the tree stand.  

Best of Luck

 

WOW! Did they ever retrieve the slug/sabot/bullet from the wall to prove either way?

 

I wouldn't think that not finding spent shell casings under that other stand would prove squat! I always pick up my spent casings/shells, so they're not laying around in the woods!

[First-light]

Interesting for sure. Sorry about that.

[Dinsdale]

You needed a better lawyer.

 

[fasteddie]

Not finding a spent shell casing is bull-crap . I always pick mine up and toss them in the trash as I consider it littering to leave them on the ground . From what you said , it sure sounds like they needed a conviction .

[Five Seasons]

there are a lot of odd things about this post... 1 of which it being your first. But I'm going to leave it alone.

[Sogaard]

You needed a better lawyer.

 

I was just going to say the same thing, your lawyer must have been terrible if you got convicted of a 1100' shotgun ricocheting round.

[MACHINIST]

He gets his facts from the internet............so you know its true!!LOL

[hunterhill55]

I think I read in your post that they charged you with firing within 1100ft from a dwelling the law is 500ft there are holes here

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[dirt_a_KISS]

Its getting heated in hear.

[Cabin Fever]

Seems like someone dropped a turd, then left?? 

[pawle76]

I'll I can say is ummmmmm..... huh ?

[pawle76]

this sounds familiar to me. Not sure but I think someone posted a story pretty similar to this one last year ?

[sits in trees]

Its Cuomo trying to frighten us into giving up our guns!

[Five Seasons]

$5 says he doesn't come back

[shawnhu]

So, show us this proof to have, and name the DEC officers involved.

DEC, like any other LEO agency must go through the same court system that the state police goes through to convict, definitely seems odd here. Sorry if you went through this with the DEC, but this would be the first time I've heard anything of this nature against an otherwise reputable group of LEO's.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

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[WNYBuckHunter]

I say shenanigans

[papabear]

for a first post it seems strange

this guy is just trying to get us to argue among our self's  he did his home work on most and did not study on the imported stuff like the 500 foot rule  

 

hope every one has a happy and safe season

 

papabear

[d-bone20917]

 

this guy is just trying to get us to argue among our self's  

 

If he wanted to do that he would have started a crossbow thread. 

[RTF]

What town? What county? What WMU? Im sure this made the local paper. Got a link to the story?

[growalot]

500ft rule...you go to court before the justice in town you hunted in and any appeals go through the same judicial system that any other conviction and appeal go through...Though I admit...I don't know about the license suspension...that maybe dealt with by just the issuing Dept.

Edited October 1, 2013 by growalot

[bluecoupe]

[CuseHunter]

PETA has infiltrated! Should try harder to scare me from hunting because the fresh back straps off a harvested deer just taste heavenly. Nothing's better than organic omnivore venison.

[wdswtr]

I cant get past the 3 shots,1 doe,2 fawns and hit 2 part did the boys all sign there doe tags over to you? 

[burmjohn]

He actually replied to a site notification email (which goes to me) rather then replying on the site, and I haven't seem him log back in to paste it here, so I will.  Again, this is from him:

 

 

What is odd about the post?  Yes I am new to this site.  I think that the public is unaware of environmental law and the unique set of “latitude” the DEC is afforded while enforcing these laws.  It is concerning when a law enforcement agency has a self serving agenda as well as a public agenda and is only accountable to themselves. 

 

As a matter of principle, I challenged the revocation process.  I produced substantial evidence in my defense and invested a lot of time and money based upon my principal.   

I enlisted expert witnesses which included a firearms expert and a PHD in physics as well as collaborated with ballistics experts from Hornady Ammunition to review photos from this investigation and to get a full understanding their manufacturing specifications.  I was prepared and presented a good argument for my innocence.

 

During my hearing, the charging DEC officer spent the first 10 minutes of his testimony testifying about his weapons training and firearms expertise.  He spent time in the military, he is a firearms instructor, his experience firing weapons of all sizes and calibers as well as his ability to determine spent slug caliber and the type of gun it was fired from just by visual inspection.  Yet when the court stenographer asked him to spell “sabot” for the record, he couldn’t spell it.

 

Based upon the evidence or lack thereof, It is my opinion that the DEC’s motivation to pursue a conviction with me was driven entirely about justification and income for their existence as a redundant bureaucratic agency and not about administration of legal due process.

 

Again, my goal was simply to inform not persuade. 

 

Thanks for the response either way.