Met A Young Guy

[robw]

So the flip side of that coin could be... doesn't not taking advantage of the technology available, and simply deciding that technology is bad, make him an unethical hunter?  After all, why would you only use a smooth bore shotgun, when a rifled barrel and a scope, properly tuned and matched with a well designed slug  will greatly enhance your accuracy and make it much less likely that you would wound an animal.  And aren't recurve bows are much harder to hold on target (60 lb at draw vs 12 lb, for example) greatly increasing your chance of a poor hit? 

 

The answer, of course, is that there isn't one.  Which ever way we choose to pursue the most exciting big game animal in our state (IMP) within the legal boundaries of our state hunting regulations, is the right way.  Keeping people, especially the younger folks, engaged in the outdoors, is not just a good idea, but is a necessity if we want to continue to have the hunting opportunities we enjoy now.  We each have the right to disagree, and the discourse in this forum is a good media for doing that, but keep in mind, at the end of the day we need each other to present one united front in defense or our hunting rights, or we'll end up with more safe-act type legislation restricting us even further.

 

 

[chiefbkt]

Anyone interested in my 2012 bow?  Or one of my 6 trail cameras?  I can't have my hunter reputation ruined if people find out I've been using these new high-tech implements.  I'm going to look for a nice straight tree to make my new flint tipped spear with.

[Doc]

So the flip side of that coin could be... doesn't not taking advantage of the technology available, and simply deciding that technology is bad, make him an unethical hunter?  After all, why would you only use a smooth bore shotgun, when a rifled barrel and a scope, properly tuned and matched with a well designed slug  will greatly enhance your accuracy and make it much less likely that you would wound an animal.  And aren't recurve bows are much harder to hold on target (60 lb at draw vs 12 lb, for example) greatly increasing your chance of a poor hit? 

 

And of course that line of thinking would have everyone using only rifles for hunting deer. Does this concern about not taking advantage of technology mean that we should halt all archery seasons for ethical reasons? The fact is that a lot of hunting is done for the challenge. That's what started bow season in the first place. Some of us do still want to keep that element of challenge in our hunting. Others are content to let some engineer in a cubicle somewhere determine our hunting results. Most of us have found some middle ground between hunting with clubs, and hunting with 500 yard weapons. It's a personal choice, but I also get a bit of an odd feeling about those that would get their harvest at any cost, which seems to be the growing mindset in hunting these days.

[Five Seasons]

That's the funniest thing I read here in awhile. Thanks!

Ok no scopes,gore tex,camo,tree stands ? well know way can a real hunter use one of those.

Look only real way to hunt is naked on the ground with a spear.

 

except for that hunting with a spear is illegal in NYS... so there is no wining.

[WNYBuckHunter]

The way I look at it is this. Its simple to me, if its legal, and thats the way you want to do it, more power to you. Ill hunt my way, you hunt yours. Ill shoot what I want, you shoot what you want. I wont put anyone down for hunting legally, even if its not the way I would do it.

[mike rossi]

Elmo,

 

I don't think most view the sport as (hunter vs hunter) but yes some do. I think the term sport is used because unlike buying your beef at wegmans. This is deer vs hunter. Sure, almost anyone can kill a stupid button buck, but the mature doe and buck are a challenge for sure. The deer has superior smell and hearing, plus homefield advantage and night vision. Hunters have brains. With these brains we discover ways to beat the deer's senses. I will never claim the field to be equal, but at least a deer has a chance. The chicken and the cow? Not so much...

When commercial market hunting was banned in this country, regulated, recreational hunting  was allowed to continue and it was since called sport hunting.

Edited October 8, 2013 by mike rossi

[jjb4900]

there's only two sports, hunting and fishing......everything else, baseball,football, hockey, etc.....is just a game.

[Five Seasons]

there's only two sports, hunting and fishing......everything else, baseball,football, hockey, etc.....is just a game.

 

see now the funny thing to me is I've never considered fishing a sport. I'm not hardcore, but I fish bass in the daks during the summer and take a trip to northern quebec for pike every spring.

 

[BUCKANDAQUARTER]

Early I didn't know you could get dialup for a typewriter

[sampotter]

Trail cameras are a blast! I look at mine like a trapline and can't wait to see what is on there. I've only killed one buck I've previously had on a camera. I do use them to at least determine whether it's worth spending much time hunting a certain spot. I would say the biggest advantage of trail cameras is they give me HOPE which might keep me hunting a certain spot a little more often or more carefully than I would otherwise. Getting a picture of a deer is a long, long way from killing it. Heck, trail cameras probably hurt my chances more than helping them.

Early- you should be thankful that young man was either nice or naïve enough to share his pictures with a grouchy stranger. I wouldn't have done the same.

[pawle76]

instead of ripping apart someone else's hunting methods and calling them non hunters I think hunters should respect one another. As long as it's legal I welcome all the new products that will/won't make me more successful. Unfortunately there will always be some hunters who think they are superior or if it isn't done the way they do it you're not a "real" hunter. That's what the anti hunters prey upon.

[Doc]

The way I look at it is this. Its simple to me, if its legal, and thats the way you want to do it, more power to you. Ill hunt my way, you hunt yours. Ill shoot what I want, you shoot what you want. I wont put anyone down for hunting legally, even if its not the way I would do it.

Just curious ..... does that include extreme canned hunting? Had they not made internet hunting illegal would that had been ok too?

 

I understand that such things could happen and theoretically we are not impacted by them because we choose how we are going to hunt. But there is a universal truth that the sport that we are all a part of is impacted by the acts of others. That's why we get all upset when some hunter shows up in the headlines as doing something incredibly stupid or illegal. Our sport is constantly under scrutiny and judgment from the outside that can eventually move public opinion against us. So, It is good to have an opinion on things beyond simply whether it is legal or not. At least that is the way I see these kinds of discussions. I think it is good that people constantly evaluate and ponder ethics and other right and wrong judgments. I think it is what eventually establishes reasonable rules of conduct and in the long haul makes hunting stronger.

[Lord of War]

I am a brand new hunter, just got my license and have been studying and reading up on the sport for a few months.  I see a benefit with trail cameras because I do not live close enough to the areas I hope to hunt in order to scout them as much as I would like to. 

You make it seem like trail cameras are cheating somehow, but in order to effectively use trail cams you need to find .... the trails.  Isn't that half the work?  Yes they give you a great advantage in figuring out deer patterns and what time would be best but you still need to find the deer sign and trails in order to make use of them. If you have the time to spend all day in the field then yes you will see more and know a lot more about deer movement and good places to setup than a guy like me who only has SOME weekends free to hunt and scout.  In order for me to have a real shot of bagging anything I am seriously considering a trail cam to get a better idea of deer movement so I can maximize my hunt.  Right now I am trying to learn as much as possible so I can hopefully bag something this year, and trail cams will help.  Doesn't make me any less of a hunter than you, just significantly less experienced which I am all too aware of.

[fearthebeard]

I am a brand new hunter, just got my license and have been studying and reading up on the sport for a few months.  I see a benefit with trail cameras because I do not live close enough to the areas I hope to hunt in order to scout them as much as I would like to. 

You make it seem like trail cameras are cheating somehow, but in order to effectively use trail cams you need to find .... the trails.  Isn't that half the work?  Yes they give you a great advantage in figuring out deer patterns and what time would be best but you still need to find the deer sign and trails in order to make use of them. If you have the time to spend all day in the field then yes you will see more and know a lot more about deer movement and good places to setup than a guy like me who only has SOME weekends free to hunt and scout.  In order for me to have a real shot of bagging anything I am seriously considering a trail cam to get a better idea of deer movement so I can maximize my hunt.  Right now I am trying to learn as much as possible so I can hopefully bag something this year, and trail cams will help.  Doesn't make me any less of a hunter than you, just significantly less experienced which I am all too aware of.

welcome to hunting my friend good luck

[Lord of War]

welcome to hunting my friend good luck

Thanks I'll need it.

[fearthebeard]

Thanks I'll need it.

as hunter we all do lol

[Five Seasons]

featherbeard... honestly on first glance that looks like a trailcam of a pot plant as your avatar. haha.

[Nomad]

there's only two sports, hunting and fishing......everything else, baseball,football, hockey, etc.....is just a game.

Earnest Hemingway said that there were only 3 sports mountain climbing,auto racing and bull fighting .

All the rest are merely games.

[Water Rat]

Yeah.....and he also committed suicide .

[sweet old bill]

I can see both sides of the discussion. One side loves the old way of shooting all year to get better accuracy with the bow, learn all the wood craft he can, trys to see how close he can get to game prior to a kill shot, and scouts all year long to find the deer  bedding and travel routes.

 

Now the other side it sure seems that on the sportsmen channel if you see the shows the way is all the new things, you must have a food plots, you must have several of the cameras so you are looking at deer all year long via the cameras, you must have a new scope that tell you  how far away the deer is so you can take a shot, plus do not hunt with a bow with just a string and nothing more like sights, peep, kisser, release, carbon arrows, and new type of closed in flight BH's...got to hunt out of tree stand or mfg blind.

 

now for me a old fart of 71, I am both side of the coin, still love the traditional bow, but shoot a compound with peep, WB rest, carbon arrows, muzzy 3 blade fixed BH's, release and d-loop on the string. I still am shooting all year long, Why, at my age it has to be done to keep me so I can hunt. I also shoot 3D's both here and am a senior master in ASA in SC. I also am in the woods most of the year, looking to see how the deer have changed. The preseason scouting also lets me shoot stumps with wood arrows, blunts with my traditional bow .I do not or can not afford all the trail cameras or have my own land for food plots. I also hunt only from ground blinds that I use from natural down tree etc., no more tree stands due to age.

 

so how do you handle the new hunters of the tect age, for me my goal always has to see how you can help and grow our sport. So if you see a new guy or now gal out there you old farts see how you can help them to grow are sport of hunting / archery.

You may learn something from them as well.

[Doc]

Generally when discussing hunting with youngsters (and others) and trying to introduce and excite them about hunting, I usually stress the tradition and heritage of the activity. That is the sort of sales point that the antis cannot combat. I don't waste a lot of time discussing what pieces of equipment will make hunting less of a challenge. They already have plenty of places to learn about how to "tech-up" the activity. I have found that kids are really quite interested in some of the history and reasons for hunting if someone just takes the time to talk about that sort of thing. 

 

It probably is not doing much for the sport or the participants to convince them that they can "buy" hunting success, or have some engineer invent it for them. Between the marketing forces in hunting, and the TV shows, hunting can be entered into with the same mentality as going to the store looking for the latest gizmo from Apple. It doesn't do any harm to point out that there is a difference between taking on the challenge of hunting, and going to the store to make a random technological purchase. Sometime people have to have that explained to them.

 

Does technology have a place in hunting? .... absolutely. Even the pioneers understood that. But as has been pointed out, the world is a rapidly changing place, and things are being invented that we couldn't even conjure up in our imaginations before. We do have to guard against technology swallowing up and burying the basic reasons why we hunt. We have to be careful that we don't start regarding hunting as merely buying the easiest way to kill animals. I'm not talking about extremes and fanaticism. I am simply talking about keeping some perspective as to why we are out there in the first place. Where are the lines drawn? That is a personal decision. It is one of those things that fall under the category of "you'll know it when you see it". But that will only happen if you are looking for it.

[phade]

Generally when discussing hunting with youngsters (and others) and trying to introduce and excite them about hunting, I usually stress the tradition and heritage of the activity. That is the sort of sales point that the antis cannot combat. I don't waste a lot of time discussing what pieces of equipment will make hunting less of a challenge. They already have plenty of places to learn about how to "tech-up" the activity. I have found that kids are really quite interested in some of the history and reasons for hunting if someone just takes the time to talk about that sort of thing. 

 

It probably is not doing much for the sport or the participants to convince them that they can "buy" hunting success, or have some engineer invent it for them. Between the marketing forces in hunting, and the TV shows, hunting can be entered into with the same mentality as going to the store looking for the latest gizmo from Apple. It doesn't do any harm to point out that there is a difference between taking on the challenge of hunting, and going to the store to make a random technological purchase. Sometime people have to have that explained to them.

 

Does technology have a place in hunting? .... absolutely. Even the pioneers understood that. But as has been pointed out, the world is a rapidly changing place, and things are being invented that we couldn't even conjure up in our imaginations before. We do have to guard against technology swallowing up and burying the basic reasons why we hunt. We have to be careful that we don't start regarding hunting as merely buying the easiest way to kill animals. I'm not talking about extremes and fanaticism. I am simply talking about keeping some perspective as to why we are out there in the first place. Where are the lines drawn? That is a personal decision. It is one of those things that fall under the category of "you'll know it when you see it". But that will only happen if you are looking for it.

 

People have been able to "buy" hunting success since recreational hunting began imo. That makes zero sense to say it applies only now because it's ALWAYS been that way with recreational hunting (not saying you said that, just in general). Whether it came in the form of a new, modern (at the time) firearm, or ammo, or gear, etc., to buying the right ground, to nowadays buying almost anything.

 

Sure, you could say people grabbed the gun off the rack in the dining room and walked out back, but trust me, they were equally as sold on the "latest and greatest" at the time, too. That's nothing new...snake oil has been around a long time.

 

Bottom line is defining what success is to a new hunter. Outside of "enjoying nature/time with family" - killing a deer, filling a tag, killing a matue buck, whatever - can indeed be bought. Great ground makes even the most poor hunter look good - in my book it's the one mitigating factor that overcomes a hunter's abilities. You can have a great hunter, one who kills solid 100-115" bucks on public land every year, and one who's a putz on great private ground he bought, and that guy falls into P&Y simply by happenstance. I've seen it too much, but it is what it is. The problem, is that what's on the wall is valued more than what the hunter knows.

 

A wall will never justify my ability as a hunter - it may help me reason as to what has worked for me and what has not - but it won't justify my ability. I'm in the minority, however, and it seems like success measured in inches is the new norm. I can't do a thing about it, and nobody else here can, it's a moving target that simply reflects a societal shift. With that, comes a new level of all kinds of tools to assist in the process. Before, buying success was more of a "get a deer down" advertisement...today it's "get the biggest deer down."

[Five Seasons]

There is a fine line to some of the modern technology offered today and the latest greatest gimmicks. On my list of what has helped the sport the most are compound bows, scent control products, trail cameras and various forms of insulating/rain/wind gear that helps keep a hunter in the woods longer. I'm sure I'm missing some, but off the top of the head I dont think most of those can be ignored. And it's not just the gimmicks that hunters have to be careful of. A new soap that is claiming to be better than your current, a new arrow that claims to be straighter, a new broadhead that claims to be sharper. That's just marketing and manufacturers trying to get you to keep spending money.

 

Nothing different than car companies. A while ago it was power steering, power windows and locks, then it was A/C and air bags, then it was ABS and now gps and bluetooth. Plenty of features have been added over the year. Only a handful of them are really justifiable for buying a new car when your current one is still running.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Belo

[coonhunter]

The funny thing for me reading all these fancy new things, is the one I am happiest about is the simple hand warmer packets.

 

Belo makes a good point about the clothing. It is amazing how nice some of the new cold weather gear is, as well as the boots.

 

I try to keep my hunting as cheap and traditional as I can, but some advances are just too nice to pass on.

[bubba]

I started using cameras last year. I put it out I saw a buck I wanted to hunt, and I stuck to him. I passed a lot of younger deer, and I held out.  I never did get  him, the neighbor did.  So I never fired a shot last year.  Honestly that was fine with me. So I am on the fence with the cameras.  I go once a week or so and check the pics and enjoy looking at the pics.  I truly enjoy them.  I still hunt with my old fashioned choices, but I did get into the picture business.