Passing on bucks because of Antler Restrictions

[Dorsilfin]

While I am all for having huge racks walking around the woods.. I mainly hunt in 3A in the catskills. 

 

So no doe permits and antler restrictions.

 

I got spoiled during bow with a large 8 pointer and put alot of meat in the freezer and I am very thankful for that.

 

However Opening day I had to pass on a solid 4, because I could not see if it had browtines making it a 6.

 

Yesterday morning I was out and had to pass on a 2 pointer.. because well 2 pointer..  Fact is I would have much prefered to have him hung up in the wood shed getting ready to butcher him up for meat.

 

I dont eat antlers.. I eat meat and when hunting state land I want to take anything legal to fill the freezer.

 

 

I have to say, Yes the 8 pointer was abnormal for this area and was awesome to have gotten a shot at it with the bow.. but New york will never be the midwest.. we do not have 1000's of acres of prestine ranches built around land management to improve the deer herd and we will never have huge racks as the norm around here. 

 

If someone has land or wants to make agreements with neighbors thats all good and well for you to pass on deer but I want to just fill the freezer.

 

Anyways /deadhorse   I know its been talked about ad nausim I just had to have a little rant about having to pass on deer because of it.

 

-Dors

Edited December 1, 2013 by Dorsilfin

[ncountry]

While I have enjoyed the results of ARs where I hunt. This happens..This is the biggest 3 point I have ever seen. Walking around under my stand for 10 minutes

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[DROpTINE]

Opening weekend the butcher I go to had 90 deer. Of those deer, 52 were 8pts or better. About 10 of the remaining deer were basket 6pts or 8pts and the rest does.

Butcher said he had never had that many bigger bucks and the age of most of the bucks taken have been 2.5-3.5. I think it is working. While I understand the issue with putting restrictions, we may all just have to wait another year or two to truly see a difference.

We are never going to have Monsters everywhere or 200inch deer taken every season. Fact. In years past, how many bucks small or big had been seen during the season vs this year & last year? Personally, I have seen more bucks while hunting in the past 2 years than the previous 10 yrs combined. Same property-same stands.

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[nys-buckstalker]

Hear what you are saying . Seen 3 bucks opening day, spike, 3 pointer and 4 pointer. If wasn't for AR anyone of them would be in my freezer for winter meat. Like was said this area will never be the mid west with 180-200 inch racks. In a couple years maybe have a few 130-140's.

  The other side of it will put more bucks in woods to breed does. A few years will have a buck/doe ratio of 1-1. Being the DEC doesn't give dmp's for this area without a pref. point . Area will have more deer than it can hold then will be big problems. More deer/auto accidents and peoples gardens being raided.

[jjb4900]

3A has been under AR's and has had no doe permits for several years.......most of the people you talk to will tell you the deer herd in that area really hasn't rebounded because of it.

[DROpTINE]

I know it is 100% different depending on wmu. Some areas not having any doe permits baffles me.

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[crappyice]

No doe permits and ARs in the same area-yikesI can't imagine the hunting pressure is that high

[ncountry]

I know it is 100% different depending on wmu. Some areas not having any doe permits baffles me.

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I know in the area around home  6a there have been 0 dmps issued for a few years now. Not seeing a significant increase in deer #s yet.. Not sure if we will see dmps issued again within the next 5 years.

[jjb4900]

I just wonder how it gets to the point where they have to take such drastic measures to rebuild a herd.....

[ncountry]

Poor management.. imo

[silent death]

I believe 4s in green county is 3 points on you side and they don't issue doe

permits i have 3 preferance points for there ...maybe

a landowner might get one...and in 4s there's doe everywhere...

in new baltimore in green county

[jjb4900]

Poor management.. imo

I used to hunt the area of 3A that is around big pond and the little pond Campsite.......this was back in the 80's, actually went with family for a few years before I was old enough...........there were a lot of deer, doe tags and hunters..........my guess is by the time they realized how badly the herd was doing, it was too late, and will take years to rebound.

[wztirem]

The deer habitat in 3A is no longer capable of supporting a large deer population.

[Dorsilfin]

The deer habitat in 3A is no longer capable of supporting a large deer population.

 

The woods are all old growth at this point and the coyotes are running wild around me.   would be nice if the state would come in and start logging places out and get some new growth going.. let the sunlight hit the forest floor and get some vegitation growing to support the animals.

 

 

But ill never see that day happen and I dont forsee the herd getting larger.. if anything it will just skimp along and remain so so.

 

Im going to keep looking for land, maybe find a 30-50 acre property somewhere in NYS that I can cultivate into a hunting ground with food plots and water and some thick stuff they will hopefully bed down in.

[dbHunterNY]

it's tough but ARs do help the hunting.  you'll get those types of situations when you hunt unfortunately.  heck Rangerclay on here filled his buck tag and had to let a 12 pointer buck of a lifetime walk on by.  also I'm sure others who hunt the same soil your boots have tread, haven't gotten anything yet.  I've voluntarily passed doe and bucks in different places where it benefits the deer hunting.  It's bittersweet though because it'll help out a lot if I can get meat in the freezer.  I fill the freezer every year but it gets a little stressful toward the end of the season.  we're all really in the same boat in that it'd be nice to tag out every year but sometimes it just doesn't happen.

[bubba]

How does one tag out with an area with no dmp and 3 on one side. We are concerned hunting numbers are low and we want to.make it tougher to get a deer. No wonder numbers go down. And all antler hunting not deer hunting

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[G-Man]

well at least the state gets your licence money....

[Catskill Hunter]

So aren't more bigger bucks being taken really the result of hunters not being able to shoot the first buck they see ? Most who shoot these bigger bucks would have been tagged out already and out of the woods with a smaller buck, Leaving the bigger bucks around to grow bigger ?? The argument can go both ways I guess.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

So aren't more bigger bucks being taken really the result of hunters not being able to shoot the first buck they see ? Most who shoot these bigger bucks would have been tagged out already and out of the woods with a smaller buck, Leaving the bigger bucks around to grow bigger ?? The argument can go both ways I guess.

But he number in that scenario is a far smaller number.

[RTGobbler]

One of the big issues in areas like 3A is the habitat. I hunt the eastern side if blackhead mtn, and as someone already said its old growth forest and there its not very much food for a large number of deer. The last few years have been very tough hunting.

Selective logging would be a very good thing for those herds. The last logging was 20yrs ago, and a lot of the under brush that came from it has matured. The deer populations seemed to fair better after the logging.

What's interesting to me is that we seem to be seeing less deer. And the deer we see are doe (no dmp there). Don't think that is because of AR, it its more habitat and some very rough weather the last few years. But its interesting to think if AR will actually help long term. Maybe getting the buck/doe ratio fixed would be better?

I don't care much about having AR, we had voluntary AR for a few years better it was law and have no issue passing in a smaller deer. I'm still going to busy my butt up that mountain in the pitch dark.

But I can say what used be a standing room only hunting camp is now sporting a lot of leg room. Takes a special guy or gal to want to hike 2 miles in and up a thousand feet just to pass on the doe and small antlered deer they might see.

[dbHunterNY]

How does one tag out with an area with no dmp and 3 on one side. We are concerned hunting numbers are low and we want to.make it tougher to get a deer. No wonder numbers go down. And all antler hunting not deer hunting

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I don't think you have to have a DMP to tag out.  tagging out in my mind is simply filling every tag(s) you've got, be it one or many.  I don't think ARs are as much of a problem as habitat from what others have said that to me would make sense.  the OP even had a great idea of opening it up to selective logging in areas to create some regrowth with the understory browse and cover.  there's some problems with getting that to go through and pass but it's a good idea.  Make it possible to kill any deer in the woods and watch the numbers go to nothing, regardless of the habitat.  the problem with hunting numbers going down is the mentality of it's a big buck or little buck.... it's meat or it's antlers.  let the damn thing live that's only a year old and watch it.  sit back and watch and let a kid or new hunter learn what it's doing and why it's doing it.  let them see it as a deer and they'll appreciate it when a bigger wiser one comes along.  my dad own's 350+ acres of farm land.  he hunted and got me into it.  now we've got a bunch of hunters on the property, who happen to be family, that have the mentality of you simply got a deer or you didn't.  now during gun season he can't sit there and simply watch deer in any of his fields if there's anything legal without WWIII gun fire happening at the very deer he's watching even if they are out of range.  he gets disappointed and then goes back down the house/barn yard to get work done.  I hardly see him during the season.  he's basically stopped buying a license and stopped hunting.  ever since we've gone to a self imposed 3 pts to a side he sees deer have a chance to live and sparks up when we show him some trail camera photos of deer that made it.  he was never about big antlers before when he hunted, he just wanted to know there was a chance a big one could be around the next tree or that something was left to look at.

[A Sportsman]

Folks, I have hunted 3A since I am 16. So 21 years. In that time I have mostly seen a deer popul that remains low for reasons stated (habitat). I've heard the stories from my dad and others about how there were more deer and many more hunters back in the late 60s through the 80s. I have watched the foliage on 2 mountains change over the years to where I simply don't bother going there anymore. Its tough for sure and it will try your patience and confidence. At times it will frustrate the heck out of you. And it will continue.

Further, if its just meat you are after, the state has let you down with AR and no dmps there.

BUT,(and this is a big but here)killing bucks there is not magic. Its not like maine where you have to drive miles of road to find a single track (as I have heard anyway). Its also not unlike sections of the ADKs that are barren of deer, yet guys find and shoot some deer.

I sucked at hunting this area for the first 10 seasons I tried it and I likely would have given it up if my dad and uncle didn't have so much history there. But I stuck with it and the last 10 seasons have been pretty darn good. This season I shot a nice 8 (missing brows, woulda been a 10). Probably 2.5 maybe 3.5. Weighed 152.5.

As far as seeing nothing but "little bucks" there it doesn't compute. Little hunting pressure, steep mountainous terrain that enable bucks to live a long life away from people. They are there. If you stick with it, you'll see.

[nyantler]

For those complaining about having to pass young bucks that could be meat in their freezer... How many does have you had to pass up? If there were no antler restrictions and everyone had doe permits it sounds like you wouldn't be seeing either in 3A... because hunters would be killing everything and anything to fill the freezer... that's why we have deer management.. to save us from ourselves. There are plenty of WMU's with State land and doe permits if you need meat. I never understood why a hunter that has a need to feed his family with venison wouldn't travel wherever to make sure he had an opportunity to fill his freezer. I even know guys that scream about being meat hunters to help feed the family, but won't buy available doe tags in their area... just doesn't make sense.

[the blur]

I passed on a buck, because he wouldn't take his head out of the mountain laurel.  I saw antlers, but not being able to see the fully rack, he walked off.  Someone shot him later on that week.

[JFB]

For those complaining about having to pass young bucks that could be meat in their freezer... How many does have you had to pass up? If there were no antler restrictions and everyone had doe permits it sounds like you wouldn't be seeing either in 3A... because hunters would be killing everything and anything to fill the freezer... that's why we have deer management.. to save us from ourselves. There are plenty of WMU's with State land and doe permits if you need meat. I never understood why a hunter that has a need to feed his family with venison wouldn't travel wherever to make sure he had an opportunity to fill his freezer. I even know guys that scream about being meat hunters to help feed the family, but won't buy available doe tags in their area... just doesn't make sense.

 

Took the words out of my mouth. 

 

I applaud the guys passing up big bucks because they already filled their tag... thats kinda how it goes... you decide to pull the trigger on one buck because it's supposed to be what you want. 

 

I just can't relate go guys who complain about having to pass up bucks and they so badly need meat. Is their buck to doe ratio 5 buck to 1 doe or something? For those of you who live in a region that doesn't offer doe tags... I fully understand shooting whatever buck is legal. 

 

"to save us from ourselves"... is a great quote because let's be honest, unfortunately it seems like the majority of gun hunters are just out to push running brown objects to their idiot hunting buddies who volly shots. I doubt that people who spend time on forums or who actually study their game are the ones doing this but it's what I consistently see afield. I've said it before, I like the idea of AR if for nothing else to get people to identify what they shoot at.