Anyone have a problem with this post.

[Five Seasons]

As for the rest of your post...who cares what your opinion is.

 

The QDMA and many hunters on this board have favored education for many aspects of deer hunting instead of legislation. that's who.

 

your turn.

[Doewhacker]

The QDMA and many hunters on this board have favored education for many aspects of deer hunting instead of legislation. that's who.

 

your turn.

 

No one cares about YOUR opinion, not talking about QDMA or any one else. If you can't grasp the simple concepts of carrying capacity and what happens if deer are not killed I do not care about your opinion's.

[First-light]

Yea it seems these guys hunt hard for the bucks for three months and let the does walk. Season coming to an end and Snipers on the way, brown it's down. This is used for justifying their kill of fawns. You want to shoot the small ones fine by me, just don't use the "Sniper" as your excuse.

Edited December 19, 2013 by First-light

[Five Seasons]

If the goal is to reduce or control overpopulation, then shooting both the doe and fawn is best case scenario.  Still don't see why a fawn shouldn't be taken even under that scenario, but again, I may have a limited understanding here.

 

if it's truly a serious population control issue that LI is having than you're right it doesn't really matter. Although, bang for buck the breeder doe is a better option. The whole point of this thread was the matter of posting it online and joking about it. That is what rubbed the majority of people the wrong way. I simply pointed out that I bet that hunter could have easily whacked a bigger doe but took the easy shot instead.

[Five Seasons]

Yes, I am surely NOT young anymore.  With age, however, one can more quickly determine who the dumb asses are.

 

you disagree with my opinion and that of several other members in this thread and i'm more vocal about it so you're all up in my kitchen. That's fine. I never called you a dumb ass, but no surprise you resorted to it. Just because I have a different view than you does not make me stupid. But my dad can beat up your dad so there.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Belo

[mbucks27]

You are absolutely right Doewhacker.  Hunters down here are fighting to get the snipers called off and starting to realized that they need to shoot more Deer (Does, Fawns, Bucks) me being one of them. There is a big deer problem down here on the island and many hunters choose to wait for a mature buck and pass on many does and fawns which is why the numbers are growing so rapidly.  I  don't think the OP did anything wrong by posting that pic even though he made a comment that offended some people this site. The site he posted it on there are a lot of guys who are all friends and it was really considered a joke among friends.  I agree that pics of bloodied deer can make hunters look bad but think about what you are doing you are shooting a deer with an arrow or bullet. There is going to be blood that is the fact of it. Some people choose to hide it and some people don't but its still there.  i try to hide it the best i can but that's just me.  

 

It really makes me sick thinking that snipers are going to come in and "try" to take down 3000 deer in Feb. They say they are only going to target does but how do they know then when bucks have no antlers then?   There are going to be a ton of bucks shot during the cull. 

 

John

[Five Seasons]

No one cares about YOUR opinion, not talking about QDMA or any one else. If you can't grasp the simple concepts of carrying capacity and what happens if deer are not killed I do not care about your opinion's.

 

mind blowing your lack of reading comprehension skills. You said you didn't care about my thoughts on hunter education. That I was stupid etc.

 

I pointed out to you that this is not a personal opinion of mine, but that of many on this board and that of a well respected organization.

 

So what I'm inferring is that you are against hunter education. Is this correct?

Edited December 19, 2013 by Belo

[letinmfly]

Yea it seems these guys hunt hard for the bucks for three months and let the does walk. Season coming to an end and snipers on the way, brown it's down. This is used for justifying their kill of fawns.

 

So there's a transformation from hunter to killer?  Hmmmmmmmmmm.....

 

IMO no hunter needs to justify killing a fawn.  Last I checked they are still a deer and legal to kill.  The self righteous police need to stop policing and actually read the rules and regulations first. 

 

BTW I haven't shot a doe in many years, by choice.  I've had DMP permits, I just chose not to fill them.  Once again my choice!!

 

 

First-light I'm not slamming you, just using your post as my premise.

[phade]

Observationally, I don't believe we have a high fawn mortality. There is food EVERYWHERE. but this is just my opinion from personal observation and talking with other hunters.

 

My own belief is that if a fawn is going to starve, at least they had a shot. That's just mother nature. and again from personal observation I've never come across a 1.5 or older dead deer in the woods who appeared to die from starvation and I scout all year round. If i find dead deer, 90% of the time there's a leg blown off or arrow/gun wound.

 

Keep sticking your head in the sand. I saw more than 50 deer yarding off of 104 about 1/8 mile from Orbakers just this past week - and I'm sure that's common every 1/4 or 1/2 mile in Wayne county. Do you know why deer yard at all? Sheesh. Trust me, Wayne Co has plenty of food IN SOME SPOTS, but the brainiac that you are isn't realizing that harsh winter and heavy snowfall makes that food INACCESSIBLE to the deer. Good grief.

 

Keep trying to deny biologically proven management with nonsense. I just don't get it.

 

Here's mother nature, when she runs into my slugs and arrows. These are just ones I happen to have on me at the moment. Not a thing wrong with taking a fawn. Every once in a while a BB slips through. I've killed three, I think. Might have been a fourth, but that's in the course of hunting since I was 12.

 

Enjoy.

[phade]

The QDMA and many hunters on this board have favored education for many aspects of deer hunting instead of legislation. that's who.

 

your turn.

 

THE QDMA SAYS ITS OK AND BIOLOGICALLY SOUNDS TO KILL FAWNS IN SCENARIOS THAT CALL FOR IT! WOW.

[steve863]

you disagree with my opinion and that of several other members in this thread and i'm more vocal about it so you're all up in my kitchen. That's fine. I never called you a dumb ass, but no surprise you resorted to it. Just because I have a different view than you does not make me stupid. But my dad can beat up your dad so there.

 

Plenty of people on this thread, and others are "all up in your kitchen", way more than I care to be.  You can say what you want for all I care, but when you tell others that it's stupid to kill fawns, you open yourself up to plenty of criticism.  A dead deer, is a dead deer.  Any other justifications by hunters, to what age they should be before they receive a bullet or arrow, is pretty much all self-serving reasoning.  Nature will and does take the young and old, so what's the difference if hunters do, since their main purpose is to control deer numbers?

[Doewhacker]

THE QDMA SAYS ITS OK AND BIOLOGICALLY SOUNDS TO KILL FAWNS IN SCENARIOS THAT CALL FOR IT! WOW.

 

And Belo wonders why I don't care about his opinion....lol

[Five Seasons]

THE QDMA SAYS ITS OK AND BIOLOGICALLY SOUNDS TO KILL FAWNS IN SCENARIOS THAT CALL FOR IT! WOW.

 

did you read it at all? He asked me why I cared what my neighbors shot. To which I replied that if educated they might not shoot the small bucks and bb's. Pointed out that I'm not telling my neighbor what to do, simply trying to educate him on what we can do as a team to increase our odds of harvesting mature deer. And to my knowledge the QDMA has that stance over ARs and legislation.

 

If you're now advocating for shooting bb's then I guess I'll just disagree with this approach. I forgot i'm working with a biologist and great hunter and you're also an accomplished writer too? Please forgive me for not shooting button bucks. Your pictures do not offend me (although I'm curious as to why the faces are blacked out). They may offend the public though, so you're not getting to me no matter how hard you try.

 

Do you hunt wayne county? Do you scout it? More specifically Ontario? I guess your super biologist skills don't require that... simply seeing a bunch of deer from the road is enough.

 

Here's my bb from 10 years ago Phade. Just so you don't feel left out

Edited December 19, 2013 by Belo

[phade]

did you read it at all? He asked me why I cared what my neighbors shot. To which I replied that if educated they might not shoot the small bucks and bb's. Pointed out that I'm not telling my neighbor what to do, simply trying to educate him on what we can do as a team to increase our odds of harvesting mature deer. And to my knowledge the QDMA has that stance over ARs and legislation.

 

If you're now advocating for shooting bb's then I guess I'll just disagree with this approach. I forgot i'm working with a biologist and great hunter and you're also an accomplished writer too? Please forgive me for not shooting button bucks. Your pictures do not offend me. They may offend the public though, so you're not getting to me no matter how hard you try.

 

Do you hunt wayne county? Do you scout it? More specifically Ontario? I guess your super biologist skills don't require that... simply seeing a bunch of deer from the road is enough.

 

Here's my bb from 10 years ago Phade. Just so you don't feel left out

 

Bold: And you are the one who can't comprehend. You need to be educated on fawn mortality and harvest. This will lead to better overall health of the herd and mature buck harvest. So stop being your hypocritical self.

 

Non-bold:

 

I'm not saying BB are specifically targets very commonly, but I'm saying that it does happen and on occasion, QDMA and other biologists call for taking a BB or two. #1 for comparing health of the herd with records and also in rare instances where situations like LI are taking place.

 

For your information, I hunted in Newark, Williamson, and Sodus this season in addition to other towns in Genesee, Monroe, and Livingston. I didn't make it to my Yates spot this year. My total access in Wayne County is about 550 acres, so I got a wide swath of what the deer are doing there. I feel more than qualified to answer your observations with those of mine in Wayne County.

 

The fact of the matter is you are wrong. I don't normally care about it, but you could do yourself a world of favor if you became educated on it and simply read about the biology behind it. The fact remains that Wayne Co is a perfect place to take a doe fawn out of the population given the conditions of the environment and the herd. You state there is no reason whatsoever to take a fawn (in Wayne Co) and you are in fact...wrong. Like I said, do yourself a favor and educate yourself instead of sticking your head in the sand.

Edited December 19, 2013 by phade

[moog5050]

Ain't you the size of Paul Bunyan? Hell you would need to hold out for a 250 pounder to make the proportions look right.

 

 

That's why I pay a much smaller person to take photos with my deer.  Makes them look much bigger.  lol  I need all the help I can get.

 

I am not that big.  6'1" and 320ish lbs.  I was bigger when I took powerlifting seriously, but hunting is taking position A in my hobbies.  When I drop to 275lbs, I plan to chase the deer down on foot as they run away.  Lord knows I shouldn't shoot a slug gun at them as I almost "shot my eye out" trying to do so.

[phade]

That's why I pay a much smaller person to take photos with my deer.  Makes them look much bigger.  lol  I need all the help I can get.

 

I am not that big.  6'1" and 320ish lbs.  I was bigger when I took powerlifting seriously, but hunting is taking position A in my hobbies.  When I drop to 275lbs, I plan to chase the deer down on foot as they run away.  Lord knows I shouldn't shoot a slug gun at them as I almost "shot my eye out" trying to do so.

Better get a stairmaster for those hills. Can't rely on the little guy forever...lol.

[Five Seasons]

This will be my last post on the subject.

 

I think you take your wildlife management to the extreme. Nobody on this board is harvesting bb's to study them. Maybe there are a very select few who do. But I imagine they own very large parcels of land or they're outfitters.

 

Most of us are casual to serious hunters who do the basics to maintain heard health and that generally includes letting the young bucks walk and shooting a few doe every year. I'm not saying you are wrong with what you are saying, but I do believe those methods are not that common in NY and are more adopted in the mid-west.

 

Ontario is unlike most of Wayne. It is pretty populated with tracts of hunting land not much greater than 100 acres. It's hard to apply some of the principals of herd management and honestly we have a lot of deer, but we do tend to be doe heavy. More doe do need to be shot, I recognize this and did so this year. There are enough doe that I personally have never felt the need to shoot a fawn. Heck I had 5 (2 bb's) fawns living in my backyard. I shot their mother and watched them stand over her body.

 

The towns you mention are very unlike Ontario. You need to walk the woods every few weekends in the winter and spring with your dog like I do to realize there are not these mass graveyards of starving dead deer. Yote population is way down as well. Fact also is that we've had some pretty mild winters lately. This year does not seem to be going that direction, but time will tell. This isn't the adirondacks...

 

I will continue to not shoot fawns. This will be my choice. The rest of you can legally do what you wish. You all need to stop taking the forum debates so serious. They're a discussion tool among us hunters and nothing more.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

 

 

My own belief is that if a fawn is going to starve, at least they had a shot. That's just mother nature. and again from personal observation I've never come across a 1.5 or older dead deer in the woods who appeared to die from starvation and I scout all year round. If i find dead deer, 90% of the time there's a leg blown off or arrow/gun wound.

 

 

Should have been around southern Finger lakes (80's)and Tug hill in (I think late 70's). Nothing like seeing hundreds of deer yarded and in various stages of death with full stomachs and bone marrow that That can be poured out of their bones. Saddest thing I have seen in the woods

 

[Doewhacker]

That's why I pay a much smaller person to take photos with my deer.  Makes them look much bigger.  lol  I need all the help I can get.

 

I am not that big.  6'1" and 320ish lbs.  I was bigger when I took powerlifting seriously, but hunting is taking position A in my hobbies.  When I drop to 275lbs, I plan to chase the deer down on foot as they run away.  Lord knows I shouldn't shoot a slug gun at them as I almost "shot my eye out" trying to do so.

 

If you think 320 and 6-1 isn't big you have another thing coming..haha

 

You would make me look small and I'm 6- 185..lol

[phade]

Everything people have said in this thread has gone way over your head. Your choice is your choice and I am fine with that, but to say emphatically that shooting a doe fawn has nor merit, especially in Wayne Co. is just ridiculous.

 

Williamson and Ontario have similar parcel sizes - they even border one another. I know this because one farm I hunt on is massive and encompasses land in both jurisdictions and I have had to do a bunch of parcel mapping as a result to hunt the farm. There is no difference between Ontario or Williamson. There are apple orchards and muck fields and corn fields and green fields and woodlots...it's the same in large. There's a reason the state issued DMPs in such high volume. They wouldn't be if they didn't feel the area had lower DPSM. Ontario is in 8F and 8F has a top five DMP count in the entire state. Fact.

 

Another fact is that yarding is the result of shrinking food sources or food sources that are unattainable. Given the amount of snow on the ground this early, fawn mortality will be higher than in recent years. Shooting a doe fawn this year would have been a great time to do so.

 

I don't shoot BB for management. I shoot them either via misidentification (shot two in successive years when first started bowhunting back in the day) or simply because I needed freezer fare and the countdown clock was near end. I'm ok with those decisions at the time. If one gets popped, it's not the end of the world. Obviously targeting BB is very narrow in circumstance, but it does happen. You'd be surprised at how many co-ops there are or large landholders there are who are management serious. This is merely one avenue or situation that may apply.

 

But the fact remains, shooting a fawn is legit in the right circumstances.

Edited December 19, 2013 by phade

[moog5050]

Better get a stairmaster for those hills. Can't rely on the little guy forever...lol.

 

 

I could drop to my birth weight of 9lbs and never catch that little guy.  I forgot about that when joking, but he actually did run a deer down.  lol  Good to be 24 and 140lbs.

[Five Seasons]

Williamson and Ontario have similar parcel sizes - they even border one another. I know this because one farm I hunt on is massive and encompasses land in both jurisdictions and I have had to do a bunch of parcel mapping as a result to hunt the farm. There is no difference between Ontario or Williamson. There are apple orchards and muck fields and corn fields and green fields and woodlots...it's the same in large. There's a reason the state issued DMPs in such high volume. They wouldn't be if they didn't feel the area had lower DPSM. Ontario is in 8F and 8F has a top five DMP count in the entire state. Fact.

 

ugh i said i was done but i can't let that one pass. Williamson is a class C or D school. There are much larger farms and much less housing. Ontario is almost an A school with developments popping up left and right. But you're right. My mom doesn't teach in Williamson and I haven't lived in Ontario most of my life. silly me.

 

oh and because we like facts. Ontario's density is 303 people/mile2. Williamson is 195. Williamson has more land than ontario and ontario has more people.

 

 

Edited December 19, 2013 by Belo

[phade]

ugh i said i was done but i can't let that one pass. Williamson is a class C or D school. There are much larger farms and much less housing. Ontario is almost an A school with developments popping up left and right. But you're right. My mom doesn't teach in Williamson and I haven't lived in Ontario most of my life. silly me.

 

oh and because we like facts. Ontario's density is 303 people/mile2. Williamson is 195. Williamson has more land than ontario and ontario has more people.

 

And its similar enough to warrant doe fawns being shot if the situation calls for it. Ontario isn't Avenue D in the city.

[ATbuckhunter]

there are no reasons to shoot a fawn none. fawns being harvested by a hunter indicates to me that that hunter has really no skills at deer hunting. or just has the mindset of its brown its down. and the picture that started this topic is of very poor taste. and i'll say it again i'm glad I was taught the ethics and respect I have for the woods and who I choose to hunt with by my father in law.          

Haha its comments like this that make me laugh. There are many reasons why someone would shoot  with 1 being that they taste damn good! Let me ask you...do you shoot Does? I have talked to quite a few hunters that believe that you should not shoot does at all and you have no skills if you do. I think that if its a legal deer, go for what ever makes you happy. There are actually not many reasons to not shoot a fawn to be honest other then personal feelings. I have shot quite a few fawns and will continue to do so if they are with no other deer. 

[WNYBuckHunter]

 

Please explain the point to me then. I guess i'm just a dumb dumb. A fawn does not breed

 

You are incorrect. First year does, in fact, are capable of breeding, and in some situations do breed.