Shot placement on a deer

[BizCT]

Might want to practice the thirty yard chip shots first, I recall you missing a gimmie last year in CT.

Over 40. I misjudged the distance and should have aimed higher. Maybe next time

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Edited February 21, 2014 by Biz-R-OWorld

[Lawdwaz]

 I misjudged the distance and should have aimed higher.  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

EXACTLY.

 

What do you think you'll do at 75 (or is it 68, or is that a little puff of wind or did the deer just react to a squirrel and twitch?) or a million other things that can make that 75 yard shot a heart breaker for you and worse than that cause a deer to die a slow, painful death and never be recovered.

 

Go back up a couple posts, print off Doc's classic response and frame it.  Then, just STFU and take some of this in from people that have experienced it.

[Carbonelement]

Law...u asked about how many kills the people taking shots like that have and u have 35 bow kills under your belt....Congrats thats a lot but i have more then double with my bow.  From ranges from 3 to beyond what you think is normal.

 

I would be willing to bet you could not even draw my bow.  Too much weight for you and most other people.  

 

Look up Cam H.  Guy shoots better at 120 yds then most people here do at 10.  Bunch of pros here...I read all the threads abt guys micky mousing their bows together and I laugh.  No wonder u couldnt hit water if u shot off a boat!

[Elmo]

My reservations against taking a 75 yard shot isn't so much as my ability to hit the target.  If I plan on taking such shots, I'm sure I will put in the practice time to be able to hit the target each and every time.  That much I can control.  My concern is more in what can change in the environment during the flight time of the arrow.  A shift in the wind.  Wind difference between me and the target.  Deer decides to take a sudden step.  I'm pretty sure we've already discussed my much distance a deer can move in a fraction of a second.  The difference between a boiler room shot and a gut shot is only a few inches.  These elements I cannot control.

[Pygmy]

Law...u asked about how many kills the people taking shots like that have and u have 35 bow kills under your belt....Congrats thats a lot but i have more then double with my bow.  From ranges from 3 to beyond what you think is normal.

 

I would be willing to bet you could not even draw my bow.  Too much weight for you and most other people.  

 

Look up Cam H.  Guy shoots better at 120 yds then most people here do at 10.  Bunch of pros here...I read all the threads abt guys micky mousing their bows together and I laugh.  No wonder u couldnt hit water if u shot off a boat!

 

Geeze, carbon, are you on steroids ?

 

I figure you MUST be in order to draw that big bad bow  and carry around that big CHIP on your shoulder.

[Lawdwaz]

Law...u asked about how many kills the people taking shots like that have and u have 35 bow kills under your belt....Congrats thats a lot but i have more then double with my bow.  From ranges from 3 to beyond what you think is normal.

 

I would be willing to bet you could not even draw my bow.  Too much weight for you and most other people.  

 

Look up Cam H.  Guy shoots better at 120 yds then most people here do at 10.  Bunch of pros here...I read all the threads abt guys micky mousing their bows together and I laugh.  No wonder u couldnt hit water if u shot off a boat!

 

Carbondouche.........I certainly am not bragging about the amount of deer, its about experience.  How many deer in NYS have you killed from 75-100 yards?  That is what the bottom line is. 

 

The guy (Biz) hasn't killed a goddamned deer ever in his life with a bow and only a handful with a gun.  Do you think he should be giving advice on shooting anything but suction cup tipped arrows at a donkey picture on his bedroom door in the basement?

 

 

 

How about you King Kong Carbonelement, you killing at 75-100 yards shots with your He-Man Rig?

[Carbonelement]

no chip...in the past i have offered great info to ppl when they are in need, its just a bunch of know-it-alls that ruin a site like this.  

And people making blanket statements when they are really uninformed makes it worse.  

I wasnt bringing harvest numbers into it until ppl jumped down someones throat, facts are facts Biz gave plenty of references abt being able to harvest animals at "too long" of distances and no one wanted to hear it.

Its funny to see the same ppl bitching all the time...maybe if some of u spent less time on here and more in the woods you would be able to kill a few deer!

[Doewhacker]

For some reason when I read your post's I am reminded of that feminin hygene product.

[Lawdwaz]

My reservations against taking a 75 yard shot isn't so much as my ability to hit the target.  If I plan on taking such shots, I'm sure I will put in the practice time to be able to hit the target each and every time. 

 

Have you ever shot an arrow at a 75 yard target? 

 

So, you think that all you have to do is put in the practice time and be able to hit the target each and every time?

 

Experience trumps all................

 

Edited February 21, 2014 by Lawdwaz

[philoshop]

To the OP, take the high-percentage shot, always. That means the heart-lung area. Gun or bow. When things go wrong in the field, not if but when, you've still got a chance. And aim at the inside of the deer rather than a spot on the hide. Keep those photos and renderings in mind while you're aiming. I took a buck two years ago that turned 90 degrees away from me just as I hit the release. The arrow hit just in front of the rear leg and took the long route into  my aim point, the lungs. Until I found him and saw the arrow I was thinking it was a perfect broadside shot. 17 yards and he turned that fast on me.

To the guys that want to shoot whitetails at 75+ yards with a bow, spend a summer shooting woodchucks at those ranges. Very similar critters with similar kill-zones and they'll get your adrenaline up to realistic levels. Butts and 3-d targets don't count for much when your heart's thumpin' and your knees are knockin'.

[Elmo]

Have you ever shot an arrow at a 75 yard target? 

 

So, you think that all you have to do is put in the practice time and be able to hit the target each and every time?

 

Experience trumps all................

 

 

You're missing my point by cutting my paragraph short.  The second half of my paragraph is where I go on to explain that there are other factors outside of my control that would cause me to miss.

[ants]

What it comes down to is that most experienced bow hunters knows that a 75-100 yard bow shot, on a live target, is a disaster waiting to happen. Practice all you want but the longer the shot (past real world bow ranges) the bigger the margin of error is.

[BizCT]

Law - Before going to Wyoming in 2012, I never killed a deer that was farther than probably 80 yards with my shotgun. So when I was in Wyoming and had a shot at 330yards, with no way of getting close and the sun setting, should I have no shot? The conditions were fine, I knew were to aim, and I completed the shot.  I hit him a tiny bit back and he ran another 110 yards farther away. I aimed at the top of back and finished him off 440 yards.  Did I ever take these shots before? No, but I knew were to aim knew the conditions (barely any wind, if any).  So whether the shot was a success or not was solely on my holding steady and aiming properly or not.  Before my trip this upcoming October, I will shoot at the range max of 200 yards, but when I get out to Wyoming I will take a shot up to 450-500 yards given the perfect situation if I can't feasible get any closer.

 

Regarding bows/xbows, I currently feel comfortable shooting my xbow to 40 yards. Yes, I missed once. I thought the deer was 35, when in fact he was like 42-43, so I missed low.  Just because I haven't killed a deer with my xbow yet, doesn't mean I will now going forward pass up a clean shot up to 40 yards. My miss wasn't because of wind or the deer moving, etc. it was my fault.  Now if someday I practice and feel confident to 75 yards and get the perfect situation to take the shot, I will do it. I'm sorry if your against it, but I'm not and nor are many other people in the world (mostly outside of NY, I guess). I personally know people who have shot deer, antelope, and elk out west at distances of up to 103 yards. It does happen, whether you want to believe it or not. Point is, I'm not waiting until I kill X amount of deer with my xbow before expanding my shooting range.

 

You don't need to shoot your bow long ranges in NY where you hunt I assume. So your 100 NY whitetail bow kills from a treestand mean nothing to me. How many spot and stalk mule deer, antelope, coues deer, elk, sheep, goats, etc. have you shot with your bow? Also, at what distances did you shoot them at? 

 

The amount of NY whitetails you killed doesn't make you any better of hunter than anyone else on here. For all we know, you hunt in a great area in NY where you can smoke cigs and talk on your cell phone all day and still kill a 100"+ buck. I have no idea, nor do I care. I don't get that opportunity, I hunt on 1 hill facing 1 way and hope for the best. That's whats convenient for me and I killed 6 NY bucks that way and I'm proud of all of them.  They were all shot with a shotgun from the ground (no blind). So maybe I'm a better hunter than you because you use a treestand and a bow and hunt earlier in the season than me in a better area of NY than me? Get my point? Your kills don't impress me, unless your name is everywhere in P&Y and B&C, so maybe its time for you to "STFU", as you would say.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Biz-R-OWorld

[fasteddie]

Where's the Boot Scraper ? This thread is getting deep with BS !

[shawnhu]

Typical hunter vs hunter thread. Some hunters are not willing or capable of accepting that there are others that are capable and put in the time to hit their marks out further than they can. These hunters think that because they can't, automatically means that others shouldn't.

This thread really took a wild turn when numbers are brought in about experience. How about track record? So far, I'm 100% recovery. Probably not many on here can say the same. Until then, I'll be pushing my limits slowly, and safely until I find where my limits are.

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[genesee_mohican]

For the young hunters and new members coming on here to look for information, or to see what hunters are sharing with other hunters, they will find thread after thread that turns ugly like this one. Bickering and name calling are the norm.  Big egos and stubborn minds take over. If it's not done the way they always did it, then some resort to belittling the person that doesn't agree them.  It's pretty sad. 

Edited February 21, 2014 by genesee_mohican

[BizCT]

Typical hunter vs hunter thread. Some hunters are not willing or capable of accepting that there are others that are capable and put in the time to hit their marks out further than they can. These hunters think that because they can't, automatically means that others shouldn't.

This thread really took a wild turn when numbers are brought in about experience. How about track record? So far, I'm 100% recovery. Probably not many on here can say the same. Until then, I'll be pushing my limits slowly, and safely until I find where my limits are.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

 

 

For the young hunters and new members coming on here to look for information, or to see what hunters sharing with other hunters, they will find thread after thread that turns ugly like this. Bickering and name calling are the norm.  Big egos and stubborn minds take over. If it's not done they way they always did it, then some resort to belittling the person that doesn't agree them.  It's pretty sad. 

 

Agreed and agreed. Those who disagree with me, could have simply said "I disagree with 75 yard bow shots, I will never take one. To each, their own". End of discussion.

[Doc]

Honestly, I don't know whether it is some kind of macho thing when people imagine that they can routinely pull off those kinds of super long shots or whether it is just some total disregard for the prey that they hunt that makes them not care that they are taking irresponsible shots. But, when people start relying on luck with their shooting, to make up for their lack of hunting skills to get close enough to do the job right, it does kind of rub me the wrong way.

 

I will not say that 100 yard kills on deer cannot be made. It all is relative to how many wounded losses you are willing to accept, or how little a messed up shot on a live deer bothers you. If you don't care about such things, start flinging arrows until something finally drops. But don't be coming on here and trying to make like those are average shots that people should be taking, here or anywhere else. You simply will be called out every time. You are doing the sport of bowhunting a terrible injustice, and hopefully newcomers to bowhunting will recognize BS when they read it. And it serves no one to simply let this kind of irresponsible talk stand without challenge.

 

The reasons why those shots should be passed has been well documented in this thread. Those that choose to ignore all that just to satisfy some kind of machismo I guess probably will do that regardless of what is said. Irresponsibility is simply a given in any form of hunting and no amount of arguing on a forum is ever going to change that. But damn us if we don't try.

[A Sportsman]

Amen.

For those of you who can justify long shots,what do you tell yourself when something goes wrong that is outside your control? Do you just say "oh well, the deer moved. Not my fault the arrow is now sticking out of his backside". Then take another long shot on the next one? How do you go on doing what your doing? Bowhunting is a close range sport. If you can't accept that, maybe its not for you. Or maybe you need to question what is important to you. Sorry to. Continue with abrasive talk. But this is a sore topic that I camt simply disagree with someone on. Could you imagine having to help someone track a wounded animal that they shot at 70 yds with a bow? Talk about a lousy position to be in.

[Lawdwaz]

Agreed and agreed. Those who disagree with me, could have simply said "I disagree with 75 yard bow shots, I will never take one. To each, their own". End of discussion.

 

Wrong.  You kept it up, posting BS links and THEN slowly reducing your yardage. 

 

That is why it went the direction it did. 

 

Admit it.

[Lawdwaz]

For the young hunters and new members coming on here to look for information, or to see what hunters are sharing with other hunters, they will find thread after thread that turns ugly like this one. Bickering and name calling are the norm.  Big egos and stubborn minds take over. If it's not done the way they always did it, then some resort to belittling the person that doesn't agree them.  It's pretty sad. 

 

Biz said 75-100 yard shots were fine.  Do you agree?

 

 

That is what the lit my fire on this.  Do you think a guy who has NEVER shot a deer in his life with archery equipment should be making statements like that and not be called out?

 

So, do you condone 75-100 yard shot on game?  I don't and I have enough years experience to say it, confidently too.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Lawdwaz

[shawnhu]

Honestly, I don't know whether it is some kind of macho thing when people imagine that they can routinely pull off those kinds of super long shots or whether it is just some total disregard for the prey that they hunt that makes them not care that they are taking irresponsible shots. But, when people start relying on luck with their shooting, to make up for their lack of hunting skills to get close enough to do the job right, it does kind of rub me the wrong way.

I will not say that 100 yard kills on deer cannot be made. It all is relative to how many wounded losses you are willing to accept, or how little a messed up shot on a live deer bothers you. If you don't care about such things, start flinging arrows until something finally drops. But don't be coming on here and trying to make like those are average shots that people should be taking, here or anywhere else. You simply will be called out every time. You are doing the sport of bowhunting a terrible injustice, and hopefully newcomers to bowhunting will recognize BS when they read it. And it serves no one to simply let this kind of irresponsible talk stand without challenge.

The reasons why those shots should be passed has been well documented in this thread. Those that choose to ignore all that just to satisfy some kind of machismo I guess probably will do that regardless of what is said. Irresponsibility is simply a given in any form of hunting and no amount of arguing on a forum is ever going to change that. But damn us if we don't try.

Doc, a forum is generally a collection of individuals that have something in common. In the example here, it's hunting.

But like in ANY forum where there are INDIVIDUALS, there will be differing opinions and experiences. To say that the majority of such an opinion is the right one, well, that's just silly. But time and again, we've seen on THIS forum that those in the minority generally gets belittled and name called. It's common practice HERE.

IMO Biz didn't do any injustice to the sport of bow hunting. Conversely, putting "limits" on bow hunters is what is unjust. You folks that are against long bow shots are only one step away from being OK with a law passed that bow hunters cannot take shots in excess of 50 yards. Some of you may already agree with just a law, if it existed! Where does it end? 40 yards? maybe 30? So who wants to write a letter to Cuomo asking him to propose such a law? After all, that'll probably make most of you happy, right?

For the record, I've never shot 75 yards and I don't intend to at live game until I do so on paper. And even then, I'll think three times before drawing on a live target at those distances, especially in NY's woods. But in a wide open field? It sure opens up the opportunities.

And finally, for new hunters and to-be hunters reading this, this is what I recommend. For every shot at live game you take at a certain distance, you should have shot 200+ shots on paper at those distances. This goes for gun, and bow. Want to shoot further? Hit the range and throw down another 200+ for that distance.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

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Edited February 21, 2014 by shawnhu

[Lawdwaz]

Typical hunter vs hunter thread. Some hunters are not willing or capable of accepting that there are others that are capable and put in the time to hit their marks out further than they can. These hunters think that because they can't, automatically means that others shouldn't.

This thread really took a wild turn when numbers are brought in about experience. How about track record? So far, I'm 100% recovery. Probably not many on here can say the same. Until then, I'll be pushing my limits slowly, and safely until I find where my limits are.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

 

Typical?  I don't think so. 

 

I'd love to meet some of the guys on here at a archery shoot and watch them bang away from 75-100 yards on a McKenzie deer target.  Who wants to belly up?

 

IIRC, the only one that even came close to saying he is capable is Carbonelement.

 

Here is a post he made last March....................

 

QUOTE:

i don't really see the difference between crossbows and bows. I am 100% compound and stick bow hunter, but I do own a crossbow(never shot a deer with it). I can shoot my compound out to 50 yds all day with 2-3 inch groups. and don't tell me there is not a bow hunter here that hasn't missed a shot. With a reg bow u can nock another arrow and most times get another crack at a deer....good luck doing that with n Xbow. I wish they would spend more time going after poachers than debating between allowing xbows or not. And I now n days i would discard muzzle loaders as a primitive weapon. you can kill at 100+ yds all day....that is a different level IMO. I can honestly say in all my years of hunting 90% have been under 25 yds, I dont think an xbow will make too much of a difference in archery season.

I have killed deer with a gun but nothing come close to the thrill of bow hunting.

 

 

______________________________________________________________________________

 

Note the part he mentioned he could "shoot his compound all day at 50 yards with 2-3" groups"  That is great shooting, on a bale or a deer target.  How about 75-100 yards?  How are those groups then, on a live breathing wired animal?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[shawnhu]

Typical? I don't think so.

I'd love to meet some of the guys on here at a archery shoot and watch them bang away from 75-100 yards on a McKenzie deer target. Who wants to belly up?

IIRC, the only one that even came close to saying he is capable is Carbonelement.

Here is a post he made last March....................

QUOTE:

i don't really see the difference between crossbows and bows. I am 100% compound and stick bow hunter, but I do own a crossbow(never shot a deer with it). I can shoot my compound out to 50 yds all day with 2-3 inch groups. and don't tell me there is not a bow hunter here that hasn't missed a shot. With a reg bow u can nock another arrow and most times get another crack at a deer....good luck doing that with n Xbow. I wish they would spend more time going after poachers than debating between allowing xbows or not. And I now n days i would discard muzzle loaders as a primitive weapon. you can kill at 100+ yds all day....that is a different level IMO. I can honestly say in all my years of hunting 90% have been under 25 yds, I dont think an xbow will make too much of a difference in archery season.

I have killed deer with a gun but nothing come close to the thrill of bow hunting.

______________________________________________________________________________

Note the part he mentioned he could "shoot his compound all day at 50 yards with 2-3" groups" That is great shooting, on a bale or a deer target. How about 75-100 yards? How are those groups then, on a live breathing wired animal?

3" at 50 yds is pretty impressive. But nothing wrong with 5" either.

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[Lawdwaz]

I agree shawn.  But how is the grouping at 75-100 yards?