Another Celeb Deer Hunter Busted

[PWGUNNY]

Ban Assault Bows!!!

 

 

[Doc]

                                    PWG bow hunters are all about the decoration and put down any one that shoots deer for the meat.Any time you talk to them or read there posts they complain there are not any big bucks and say gun hunters are just brown and down shooters. They think they are the only ones who should be aloud to hunt deer. When I say this I mean most not all, 90% of them think this way.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Moog, Who is it that lobbies against all other forms of hunting that is not with what they feel classes as a bow?BOW HUNTERS. Who is it that says it takes special skills to do what they do and that they are the best? BOW HUNTERS who is it that puts down gun hunters saying they are trigger happy, redneck,brown is down killers, need no skill, shoot all the bucks so there are no big racks?Oh BOW HUNTERS again. they can say what they want about others but god  forbid someone say something against them.  This thred was started with a post about someone who lied about what he shot with a bow just to get in the spotlight and yell look at me i am the best.Typical of 90% of bow hunters out there today.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I use to bow hunt so I am not against hunting with bows. I stopped bow hunting years ago when more and more people started.I never needed special skills to kill deer and never needed to brag about what i got. As more people started useing bows they started thinking they were special and were better then those who used only guns and the crying that there weren't any huge trophy bucks started.Just listen to bow hunters or read there posts and you see what i mean. If you need a big rack so you can use it as a decoration and brag about how good you are then you are not a hunter or even know what hunting is realy about.  

You guys might think this guy is just trying to be ridiculous, but he is not alone. I have heard an increasing number of gun hunters whining about bow hunters for quite some time now. Ever since the success rates started climbing, and the bowhunters lobbied and received longer seasons and other special goodies. There really is a growing envy of bow hunters because it appears that they are getting an awful lot of "bennys" that the gun hunters don't get, from better access to rut, to more pleasant weather, to extra season length, to first access to un-spooked bucks, etc., etc.  And there is also this other feeling that bowhunters are thinning the herd of trophy bucks before the gunners get a chance at them. Again, the Saturday morning hunting programs and the bowhunting magazines, and the forums and other internet social media all feed these thoughts of unfairness, until finally guys like stubby start to blurt out their hatred for bow hunters. Yes it's envy, pure and simple, but it seems like a growing attitude that probably should not be quickly dismissed.

 

I am not saying that any of this nonsense is correct thinking, but they are comments that I have heard from far too many of the gun-only hunters. Of course actual facts and figures never seem to enter into this envy-stuff. It's kind of like Stubby's 90% figure that he applies to everything he says about bow hunters. Kind of trying to sound like he has some sort of official survey or study in his hip pocket .... lol. Yes indeed, it is all B.S. But my message is that he is not alone in his generalizations and hatred of bow hunters. I have heard it all before. It's a phony perception that may some day blossom into a full-scale war and we may find ourselves once again fighting for the very existence of bowhunting as we know it today. I really don't know how to stop this nonsense when it shows up. I'm sure Stubby believes all of the crap that he is spewing, and so do others of a similar mentality. And there are constant improvements in equipment used in bow season that will only make it seem to more and more gunners that they are getting the short end of the stick as success rates continue upward. So while his comments seem like pure B.S., understand that his mind-set may be growing in the ranks of the gun-only hunters. It is not something to dismiss lightly.

[G-Man]

i agree doc, gun hunters have been giving up/a lot of perks to bowhunters. especially in nys. you dont see gun hunting shows showing off big bucks every week in the numbers that the bow shows do.or eventhe specail season weapons like muzzloader and crossbow. as for nys the dec cares about total numbers taken.. not about trophys or age class. that is a predominantly bow hunters push.

[burmjohn]

You guys might think this guy is just trying to be ridiculous, but he is not alone. I have heard an increasing number of gun hunters whining about bow hunters for quite some time now. Ever since the success rates started climbing, and the bowhunters lobbied and received longer seasons and other special goodies. 

 

Maybe they will turn their attention to the Xbow now

[moog5050]

I don't know enough about the evolution of the hunting seasons in NY to comment on whether there is favoritism towards bowhunting.  Happy to be educated.  I can read stubby's post and since it takes no special skill to kill deer with a bow, then he certainly has the same opportunity as any other bowhunter and could be a model to those he thinks are ruining the sport.  The x-bow likewise opens further opportunities.  Regardless, the idea of generalizing that 90% of bowhunters think this way or that is ridiculous and undermines any argument that he is trying make.  It would be no different than someone stating that 90% of gun only hunters are lazy slobs.  Lacks credibility.

[Doc]

i agree doc, gun hunters have been giving up/a lot of perks to bowhunters. especially in nys. you dont see gun hunting shows showing off big bucks every week in the numbers that the bow shows do.or eventhe specail season weapons like muzzloader and crossbow. as for nys the dec cares about total numbers taken.. not about trophys or age class. that is a predominantly bow hunters push.

Actually none of the benefits that bow hunters receive have come at the expense of any days or gun hunting. No opportunities for gunners have been lost because of additional bow season days. It has all been additive outside of the existing gun season. Unfortunately not all gun hunters understand that or choose to see it that way.

 

However, I will admit that bow hunters do receive the major press among the hunting community, and also have had the biggest improvements in opportunities and benefits. That is primarily because bow hunters are organized and have worked hard for every gain that they have won.

 

But the point of my response was that a growing attitude of dislike and envy among gun-only deer hunters for bow hunters (such as stubby's outburst) could result in more organization and activism among gun hunters that may someday result in some serious reverses for bow hunting. We are in the minority. Any further significant increases in success ratios among bowhunters might just spark that sort of divisive movement. So, what I am saying is that comments like stubby's never be ignored or passed of as simply ridiculous drivel. While it may actually be exactly that, it could be a symptom of future friction between hunters.

 

[burmjohn]

Or they could just pickup a bow and stop crying.

[moog5050]

Understand your point Doc, but what are you suggesting is the solution?  I would suspect that any gun hunter with sufficient desire to hunt in the early season would learn to use a bow.  That's what prompted me.  If not sufficiently motivated, then does one really have a reason to complain?  That's an "I am taking my ball and going home" mentality. 

 

Regarding hunting programs, if I were producing a hunting show, my first thought would be "who am I marketing this show to?"  It could be the largest demographic (all hunters) or the demographic group that has shown the most interest and would be likely viewers - that may very well be those that were sufficiently motivated to learn to shoot a bow.  I don't really know, but am curious as to how you would address the increasing resentment you perceive between gun only and bowhunters.  I don't believe the desire for big horns is limited to bowhunters and, even if it were, then the gun only hunters would not care whether they had first crack at those deer in the first place.  If they do care (and I will admit I want to shoot a nice buck), then take advantage of that season by learning the weapon allowed.  I did that with both bow and MZ not because I had any particular desire to learn how to shoot those weapons at the outset.  I wanted to hunt whenever I could - that's it.

 

Admittedly, I much prefer bow season now.  Not because I think I may shoot a better buck, but because I prefer the quiet woods and opportunity to hunt an animal that is not hiding or running for its life from the volley of shots.  I also don't belittle the gun only hunters and join right in when the season allows.

 

BTW - anyone that bases arguments on stereotypes will not typically be convinced otherwise no matter how logical the opposing argument in any event.  That is not the mark of an open mind.

Edited May 15, 2014 by moog5050

[philoshop]

Or they could just pickup a bow and stop crying.

 

LMAO.

The balmy days, the undisturbed game, and the best part of the rut are the rewards for spending the time required to be proficient with a bow. I'm not an 'archery elitist', just an old guy who prefers decent weather and watching animals who aren't running.

[phade]

I just carry the real lawyer's bag.  BTW - you are in that 90%.  I fall in the good 10% he mentioned.

 

Look, I'm the one who carries a lawyer around. Heck I even do it when I go hunting!

 

I'd be interested to see what the good 10% actually represents. Moral, ethical, upstanding citizenry, I suspect. I just can't believe 90% are like WNYBuckhunter and Culver though. 

 

Unrelated, the tension between gun and bow is probably growing, but the record books show gun hunters still take the top bucks in large. I really don't get why he says things about not caring about shooting a big buck while shooting a big buck is who he respects.

 

So, hunters aim to not go out to shoot big bucks AND if you do shoot a big buck, that it requires you to not be excited or care that you shot a big buck? While many of my more memorable hunts didn't involve a personal kill or did involve one of my smaller bucks, I just don't buy his sentiment. Anyone who shoots a big buck should be happy, proud, feel a little lucky, and above all, thankful/humbled. So, I just can't see how his argument holds water for WNYB and Culver and the rest of that 90%.

Edited May 15, 2014 by phade

[moog5050]

Well Phade, with you, Culver, and WNYBH on the evil side and me on the good side, you need to identify 6 more of you lousy bowhunters to make quota.

[Doc]

Understand your point Doc, but what are you suggesting is the solution?  I would suspect that any gun hunter with sufficient desire to hunt in the early season would learn to use a bow.  That's what prompted me.  If not sufficiently motivated, then does one really have a reason to complain?  That's an "I am taking my ball and going home" mentality. 

 

Regarding hunting programs, if I were producing a hunting show, my first thought would be "who am I marketing this show to?"  It could be the largest demographic (all hunters) or the demographic group that has shown the most interest and would be likely viewers - that may very well be those that were sufficiently motivated to learn to shoot a bow.  I don't really know, but am curious as to how you would address the increasing resentment you perceive between gun only and bowhunters.  I don't believe the desire for big horns is limited to bowhunters and, even if it were, then the gun only hunters would not care whether they had first crack at those deer in the first place.  If they do care (and I will admit I want to shoot a nice buck), then take advantage of that season by learning the weapon allowed.  I did that with both bow and MZ not because I had any particular desire to learn how to shoot those weapons at the outset.  I wanted to hunt whenever I could - that's it.

 

Admittedly, I much prefer bow season now.  Not because I think I may shoot a better buck, but because I prefer the quiet woods and opportunity to hunt an animal that is not hiding or running for its life from the volley of shots.  I also don't belittle the gun only hunters and join right in when the season allows.

 

BTW - anyone that bases arguments on stereotypes will not typically be convinced otherwise no matter how logical the opposing argument in any event.  That is not the mark of an open mind.

I wish I had a solution. What I have found is that these people do not respond to reason. It's a pretty solid mind-set, so they don't react to logic and reason. They have their minds made up, and there is no changing them. They have no interest in archery, and resent the implication that what bow hunters are doing should force some kind of pressure on them to take up an activity that they have no interest in. The fact is that if they were willing to get into archery, they would have already. So, how do you combat that? I have to admit that I really have no idea. It's almost like talking to an anti-hunter. Generally that is a complete waste of time.

 

But, No one talks much about this problem. I think it is a likely and potential future hurdle to bow hunting. More and more people may begin to ask why bow hunters still need a special season. It certainly is not the sport that it originated as, where special conditions in the woods were necessary to even have a chance at success. We used to be looked at as an oddity with our stick bows, and no one ever looked at bow hunters as being able to have any impacts. Today, guys are openly bragging about 50+ yard shots. Some will readily taunt gunners with the fact that they have not failed to harvest a buck for "X" amount of years. Technology in archery has indeed made big differences in success and continues to do so. I think that as success ratios continue to rise, so will the resentment. I know the tendency is to simply write off such crack-pots, but maybe the time has come to start thinking about possible counter-measures. Maybe it's time to evaluate how we present ourselves to those outside of bowhunting rather than letting the resentment build and some of the mis-representations stand uncorrected. I don't know, but I just thought I would mention my own personal observations of the problem and how it goes much farther than just stubby.

 

 

[stubby68]

                                I use to bow hunt so being jealous of those who are able to hunt the early season does not exist. I stopped bow hunting because I didn't find it challangeing, don't like hunting in warm weather [prefer 30 or below] and I didn't like the attitude I was seeing from new bow hunters and didn't want to be associated with that.I have killd nice bucks with bow and gun I dont get excited about them and do not feel I need to show them off or brag about them.Showing off your harvest so others tell you what a great job you did is wrong. Anti hunters just get fired up when we display our harvest like we won a ball game harvesting an animal is takeing a life not getting a decoration for our wall or ego, the animal should be shown mor respect then that. Do I have mounts on a wall yes but I dont post pictures or brag about them. Hell even people I have known for years havent seen most of them.                                                                                                           As for gun hunters thinking bow hunters get all them big bucks before they can get out there, I am sure some do.My thought is that 15 or 20 years ago there were more deer and nice bucks were nothing special because we saw them and got them all the time.What has changed? back then there were fewer decoration hunters with bows today there are more bow hunters fewer big bucks and deer in some areas and alot more crying thta there are fewer bucks.          

                                                        

                                                           Nope no stats to prove anything I have said. Yet If I am wrong then why not try to prove me wrong? My mind is not locked it can be changed if your point is proven,but everything I have pointed out is from talking with bow hunters and reading things thgey say on this site and others. If I am wrong fine yet search and there comments can be found. 

 

                                             Am I wrong that 15 years there were fewer bow hunters and that there were more nice bucks and less crying 15 years ago? Am I wrong that bow hunters lobbie against other forma of hunting,they fought the youth hunt, they fought crossbow,they are pushing for a shorter gun season. They have more hunting days then any other weapon user yet still want more.

 

                                             More and more gun hunters are getting a bad attitude towards bow hunters because of the way bow hunters look at hunting not because they are jealous,not all any how. Everyone says my statements are bs yet no one says why they are bs if what I have said is wrong then please tell me why dont just so nope that bs well why is it bs. 

[Meat Manager]

Stub,

You are definitely wrong that there were more nice bucks in NY 15 years ago.

Historically NY (and PA) has had some of the worst stats in terms of buck age class...it is improving greatly over the past few years.

Also I would say there were probably about the same amount of archers back then as there were many more hunters then despite the fact there has been an increase in bow hunters in the past few years (guessing).

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited May 15, 2014 by Meat Manager

[nyantler]

 

Understand your point Doc, but what are you suggesting is the solution?  I would suspect that any gun hunter with sufficient desire to hunt in the early season would learn to use a bow.  That's what prompted me.  If not sufficiently motivated, then does one really have a reason to complain?  That's an "I am taking my ball and going home" mentality. 

Yup.. that is kind of it in a nut shell... personally I have never understood the feud between gun hunters and bow hunters.. or the complaints about adding 2 weeks to bow season, the addition of late seasons, etc.... as far as I'm concerned my choice to hunt Northern zone & southern zone with all legal weapons allows me to be in the woods hunting deer from late Sept. thru early Dec... It doesn't get much better than that. Not a lot to complain about really... and I'm having so much fun I don't have time to care about what the rest of the hunters are doing.. I would like to believe they're having fun too.. but it seems like some are more concerned about what the other hunters are doing or not doing, or who might be killing who's deer with what weapon... I just don't get that and never will.

[Doc]

Yup.. that is kind of it in a nut shell... personally I have never understood the feud between gun hunters and bow hunters.. or the complaints about adding 2 weeks to bow season, the addition of late seasons, etc.... as far as I'm concerned my choice to hunt Northern zone & southern zone with all legal weapons allows me to be in the woods hunting deer from late Sept. thru early Dec... It doesn't get much better than that. Not a lot to complain about really... and I'm having so much fun I don't have time to care about what the rest of the hunters are doing.. I would like to believe they're having fun too.. but it seems like some are more concerned about what the other hunters are doing or not doing, or who might be killing who's deer with what weapon... I just don't get that and never will.

I will be the first to say that archery is not for everyone. And I am not really in favor of trying to force someone into the sport that has no natural attraction to it.

 

What many want is to have the benefits of bow hunting (season lengths, rut access, good weather, etc.) without having to use a bow. That is the true crux of the problem and the cause for conflict. That's not a justification, but simply an explanation.

 

[nyantler]

 

 

What many want is to have the benefits of bow hunting (season lengths, rut access, good weather, etc.) without having to use a bow. That is the true crux of the problem and the cause for conflict. That's not a justification, but simply an explanation.

 

I would have to agree... but not much different really than what the introduction of the compound did for bow hunting... many hunters had a hard time with traditional equipment... the compound made archery more appealing to many hunters. I'm aware that many see compounds and crossbows as apples and oranges... but many of us still see compounds and traditional bows that way as well. Honestly, I think we should move on from the crossbow uproar and concentrate on a little unification within the hunting world... but that's just me. All this just makes for some good old fashioned conversation to me, none of it matters much in the total scheme of things... I'm still going to enjoy my hunting regardless.

 

I'm no going to bitch when something is added to hunting.. I'll save my bitching for when they start to take things away.

[moog5050]

The burden of proving an allegation is on the one who makes it Stubby.  It doesn't fall on others to prove him wrong.  And, I suspect you recognize this, but your generalizations only further the division in the sport - to the extent it exists.  They are not constructive.  You have the freedom to say what you please, but should be aware of how others perceive your statements.  They are a reflection on you and no one else.  If you are happy with that reflection, then continue on.

 

I am sure there are gun only hunters that think like you, generalize, and think all or most bowhunters to be a negative for hunting, just like I am sure that there are many that judge someone based on stereotypes, etc. without knowing the person.  Its sad really, but it happens.

 

I could claim that anyone that lives in NYC is loud and obnoxious, prove me wrong.  The statement would be a silly generalization in the first place and cannot be proven wrong.  Its nothing more than an opinion and narrow-minded one at that.

[phade]

The burden of proving an allegation is on the one who makes it Stubby.  It doesn't fall on others to prove him wrong.  And, I suspect you recognize this, but your generalizations only further the division in the sport - to the extent it exists.  They are not constructive.  You have the freedom to say what you please, but should be aware of how others perceive your statements.  They are a reflection on you and no one else.  If you are happy with that reflection, then continue on.

 

I am sure there are gun only hunters that think like you, generalize, and think all or most bowhunters to be a negative for hunting, just like I am sure that there are many that judge someone based on stereotypes, etc. without knowing the person.  Its sad really, but it happens.

 

I could claim that anyone that lives in NYC is loud and obnoxious, prove me wrong.  The statement would be a silly generalization in the first place and cannot be proven wrong.  Its nothing more than an opinion and narrow-minded one at that.

 

Didn't Geno move upstate yet? LOL. He's got to be like a fish out of water here!

 

I believe he likes EDM and fancy hair gel.

[moog5050]

Didn't Geno move upstate yet? LOL. He's got to be like a fish out of water here!

 

I believe he likes EDM and fancy hair gel.

 

 

I am a Gen Xer - don't even know what EDM stand for.  You young-uns.

[burmjohn]

                                I use to bow hunt so being jealous of those who are able to hunt the early season does not exist. I stopped bow hunting because I didn't find it challangeing, don't like hunting in warm weather [prefer 30 or below] and I didn't like the attitude I was seeing from new bow hunters and didn't want to be associated with that.I have killd nice bucks with bow and gun I dont get excited about them and do not feel I need to show them off or brag about them.Showing off your harvest so others tell you what a great job you did is wrong. Anti hunters just get fired up when we display our harvest like we won a ball game harvesting an animal is takeing a life not getting a decoration for our wall or ego, the animal should be shown mor respect then that. Do I have mounts on a wall yes but I dont post pictures or brag about them. Hell even people I have known for years havent seen most of them.

 

Sounds like you've been hunting around and or associate with the wrong people. None the less, showing off what you harvested because you are proud of your success is bad? I don't get that, Its not wrong and never will be.  When you harvest a nice buck you never told a friend the story of the hunt? Never sent a text message of the deer to anyone.  If that's the case why even get them mounted then, why put them on display if you think its so wrong?

 

And who gives a flying squirrel what anti hunters think, 99% of them hypocritical dopes that go out and buy meat from the market and think it grows off trees. 

[Terry]

I'm no going to bitch when something is added to hunting.. I'll save my bitching for when they start to take things away.

Amen!!

[NFA-ADK]

Sounds like you've been hunting around and or associate with the wrong people. None the less, showing off what you harvested because you are proud of your success is bad? I don't get that, Its not wrong and never will be.  When you harvest a nice buck you never told a friend the story of the hunt? Never sent a text message of the deer to anyone.  If that's the case why even get them mounted then, why put them on display if you think its so wrong?

 

And who gives a flying squirrel what anti hunters think, 99% of them hypocritical dopes that go out and buy meat from the market and think it grows off trees. 

You beat me to the punch!

 

So no more posting any picture of trophies?  LOL  I think you are on the wrong site!  I usually only get one or maybe two chances a year at a nice buck and like many on this site I know how hard it can be regardless of where that person hunts.  Some have easy area's to hunt compared to others.  And I could care less what any activist thinks of my pics, they are whacked out people anyway so I do not care if I disturb a few mental patents.

[BizCT]

I am a Gen Xer - don't even know what EDM stand for.  You young-uns.

 

Electronic Dance Music.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlDd9x9t5mI Winter Music Conference ("WMC")

[Doc]

I would have to agree... but not much different really than what the introduction of the compound did for bow hunting... many hunters had a hard time with traditional equipment... the compound made archery more appealing to many hunters. I'm aware that many see compounds and crossbows as apples and oranges... but many of us still see compounds and traditional bows that way as well. Honestly, I think we should move on from the crossbow uproar and concentrate on a little unification within the hunting world... but that's just me. All this just makes for some good old fashioned conversation to me, none of it matters much in the total scheme of things... I'm still going to enjoy my hunting regardless.

 

I'm no going to bitch when something is added to hunting.. I'll save my bitching for when they start to take things away.

Everything seems to lead to crossbows these days doesn't it? .... lol. But just to be clear, I have not or am not introducing the crossbow into this thread. My comments are regarding my perception of why some gun hunters seem to be bothered by bowhunters and why I believe there is a certain element of envy regarding those benefits that bowhunters have and a desire to have a piece of the action. And it is all just perception based on stubby's reply, and other comments that I have read and heard.