Why no rifles in some shotgun only areas

[Muzzle man]

In Wyoming County you can use Rifles it started a few years ago BUT you can't use them in letchworth State park. And if you look at the rules for the park it says no firearms allowed ? That makes no scence !

[Culvercreek hunt club]

The funny thing is that even in those areas where its shotgun only, if you are out on a nuisance permit, you must use a rifle. How does that jive with the logic of shotgun only during open season? I have no idea. Apparently only snipers kill deer with nuisance permits.

must or may?

[moog5050]

must or may?

My understanding is must.

[Borngeechee]

My understanding is must.

If that's the case then these rules really make no sense

[beachpeaz]

I will play the devils advocate for a minute. 

 

I live in Erie County, which is, outside of NYC, probably the most densily populated county in NYS.

 

I can hunt behind my house (and do).  Like my area, most areas in Erie county, you can't shoot more than a few hundred yards without danger of hitting a house, road, barn, etc. 

 

Yes, shotguns have come a long way and are "rifled," however, i sure as hell wouldn't be back behind me with my .300 ultra mag which I can pluck targets at 1,000 yards with.  A slug would barely even go that far without shooting it straight up in the air.

 

It would scare the crap out of me if they allowed judgement to fall on the hunter and said that there are no limitations on weapons (IE:  banishment of "shotgun only") and let people decide for themselves what is safe.  My brothers house down the road has already been hit TWICE by hunters. 

 

People do not realize how close they really are to things when they let lead fly.  The only reason my house hasn't been hit is because I know from the edge of the woods where they are most likely to be huntiing, to my house, a slug would hit the ground first.  A rifle...forget it!!

[Two Track]

Their use to be an army firing range in Blauvelt/Nyack area of Rockland county.  Sometimes the rifle rounds would end up dropping in town (over the backstop, over the hill, through the trees, and then drop).

They closed it a few decades ago and its remnants are part of passive park.

 

Things like in higher density areas is why it is shotgun only.

 

Stewart lands are near an airport, wouldn't suck to take a shot at a squirrel in a tree and hit a plane that just took off.  There are safety reasons of some places to have them shotgun only.

[SteveB]

must or may?

May.

[Borngeechee]

Their use to be an army firing range in Blauvelt/Nyack area of Rockland county. Sometimes the rifle rounds would end up dropping in town (over the backstop, over the hill, through the trees, and then drop).

They closed it a few decades ago and its remnants are part of passive park.

Things like in higher density areas is why it is shotgun only.

Stewart lands are near an airport, wouldn't suck to take a shot at a squirrel in a tree and hit a plane that just took off. There are safety reasons of some places to have them shotgun only.

Ok, now that makes sense

[Elmo]

I think when they're restricting it to shotgun only, they're more thinking about the guys who are using the 300 win mags, ultra mags, etc.  Not necessarily the guys who are using the 44 mag out of a rifle but it's easier to cast a wider net so you don't miss something you didn't think of.

[peepsight]

"The Board of Supervisors of a county also can have a great deal to do with killing off such changes."

 

That's what I was thinking.  Maybe some of these areas won't look into changing because local politicians don't want it changed.

Yea ..... And if these local politicians aren't hunters/outdoorsman ....... ???? From what I've been able to gather for Seneca County there is an effort from the Federation of Sportsmans Clubs towards getting a rifle bill passed, but I haven't seen any politicians names associated to it. Any attempts I've made to try and found out what is happening have so far been ignored

[wildcat junkie]

Some midwestern states that were shotgun only are now allowing "straight wall" rifles cartridges. (not sure about the exact wording) They have also always restricted handguns to .357 or larger bores. Nobody is going to shoot a .35 caliber or larger magnum rifle cartridge out of a pistol.

 

Bottleneck cartridge CF rifles have lethality ranges measured in miles. No shotgun is going to lob a projectile much over 1/4 mile.

Edited December 28, 2014 by wildcat junkie

[Five Seasons]

A lot of them have started too

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[G-Man]

Ohio passed a rifle law this year, strait walled caliber only.. 45-70, 30-40 kraig, 45-120,45-90 ect  for example. the reason? range is liminted to about 200-300 yards max when fired 4 ft horizontal .  if people truly wanted to use rifle in shotgun only areas that would be the route to take when persuing it. most modern shotguns and modern slugs have the same performance as those calibers though.

[wildcat junkie]

Ohio passed a rifle law this year, strait walled caliber only.. 45-70, 30-40 kraig, 45-120,45-90 ect  for example. the reason? range is liminted to about 200-300 yards max when fired 4 ft horizontal .  if people truly wanted to use rifle in shotgun only areas that would be the route to take when persuing it. most modern shotguns and modern slugs have the same performance as those calibers though.

30/40 KRAG is neither a straight wall cartridge nor is it limited to 300-400 yds lethality. It is the ballistic equivelant to the .300 savage. I load a low pressure (38K) load that propels a 160 gr Hornady STX bullet @ 2500 fps out of a 22" barrel & could easily get 2650 fps W/O exceeding SAMMI pressure specs'.. That Mv is measured W/a chronograph, not estimated.

 

That 2500 fps load would have a maximum 3" + or - range of 250 yds with sights 1" above bore axis. It would still hit vitals with a top of the spine hold on a deer out to 300 yds.

 

The sights on the 1898 version have calibration to 2000 yds for "beaten zone" fire.

[martin hunter]

does anyone agree that the bucks get a little older ,at least another year in shotgun only areas ? Ive hunted both and can see the bucks getting by to live another year in shotgun areas, i like it !

[waterweasle]

back when I was in college about 16 years ago, we had a speaker in and they stated that it was up to the farm bureaus for setting the rifle/shotgun zones..................dunno if that is correct, just what I had heard

[wildcat junkie]

back when I was in college about 16 years ago, we had a speaker in and they stated that it was up to the farm bureaus for setting the rifle/shotgun zones..................dunno if that is correct, just what I had heard

Back in mid '90s the farm burueaus in Indiana were nearly successful in getting Whitetail deer classified the samestatus as coyotes. That would have allowed farmers & anyone they designated, nearly unlimited methods of taking deer. Any time of day & the use of light would have been allowed. No limits on the kill.

 

Sportman's groups caught wind of it & were successful in getting it stopped.

 

Grain farmers run many midwestern states. "Gasahol" (10% etanol) was pushed by the farm lobby way back then also.

[JFB]

does anyone agree that the bucks get a little older ,at least another year in shotgun only areas ? Ive hunted both and can see the bucks getting by to live another year in shotgun areas, i like it !

 

No one knows for sure; but to play devils advocate it seems like so many of those quick 5 shot vollys come from slug guns and wounded deer often just die later- so that certainly doesn't age deer any. Seems like when riffle came in to areas I used to hunt, there were more one shot sequences so perhaps that tags a guy out quicker as compared to multiple wounding sequences. I'd love to see guys put one round in the chamber and the second in their pocket... bet they'd harvest more and wound less. Heck, I say one buck a year and one bullet at a time and no matter the round I think it would be safe. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

"No one needs 10 bullets to kill a deer"......

 

Now who do you guys sound like? SMH

[Hock3y24]

But yet you can use a rifle to kill coyotes outside of deer season in shotgun areas.

[Two Track]

You only need one if using the right caliber/gauge and make an accurate shot.

 

Don't put us in the empty your magazine slug hunter generalization.  Those you are describing are not ethical hunters.  They are doing a shotgun version of spray and pray -  put lead down-range, and pray you hit the deer.  They should be verifying their target, and taking careful aim.

 

My normal gun is set for federal migratory bird hunting - so 3 rounds.  Between the last 3 deer I got, I shot a total of 4 slugs.  I had one miss.  Yes, I was using a semi auto.  Been a while since I had a deer in a position to take a shot (for a clean kill, or a safe shot - only getting one of the two, not both lately)

 

Why waste ammo taking bad shots, or tearing up your game by putting extra holes in it.  Guess some people have money to throw away.

 

My dad is using a single shot slug gun, no rifles allowed in the part of the state he lives, its all flat land there.  He shot 5 times this season, got 4 deer (this year they allow 4 does by him).  Some were 130 yards out.  Rifle distances.  But being that the highest natural point in the county is 32 feet, a rifle shot could easily go 1 mile.  The shotgun round would not make it that far.  So for safety reasons, no rifles.

 

It is not fun having to lay on the floor, because someone takes rifle shots without a back stop and the round goes through your front door and then the closet door of your house.  That happened when I was about 4 years old - !$%^! poachers using rifles where they are illegal to hunt with.

 

My county is mixed.  Some areas are bow only, some are shotgun only (like parcels near the airport), others allow rifle.  We even have an area that allows some public hunting on a military base, but for deer only via special permit, and part of that is shotgun only.

 

Towns can determine if rifle usage is allowed within their jurisdiction, or restrict to shotgun only, when the county laws for that particular area allow rifle.  If a county says no rifle - then no rifle.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

 

My dad is using a single shot slug gun, no rifles allowed in the part of the state he lives, its all flat land there.  He shot 5 times this season, got 4 deer (this year they allow 4 does by him).  Some were 130 yards out.  Rifle distances.  But being that the highest natural point in the county is 32 feet, a rifle shot could easily go 1 mile.  The shotgun round would not make it that far.  So for safety reasons, no rifles.

 

 

Irrational fear, Two Tracks. Tying illegal behavior and how rifle hunting is unsafe in level country is apples and oranges. Lets look at it logically. Take a 300 Win mag. if you are zeroed at 200 yards and take a 300 yard shot at a deer. if the vitals of a deer are 3' off the ground that bullet isn't making it 500 yards with a clean miss before it is in the ground.

[wildcat junkie]

Irrational fear, Two Tracks. Tying illegal behavior and how rifle hunting is unsafe in level country is apples and oranges. Lets look at it logically. Take a 300 Win mag. if you are zeroed at 200 yards and take a 300 yard shot at a deer. if the vitals of a deer are 3' off the ground that bullet isn't making it 500 yards with a clean miss before it is in the ground.

Ever hear of ricochets?

 

Maximum lethal range W/a 22rf is 1 mile or more yet maximum trajectory is about 100yds.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Ever hear of ricochets?

Maximum lethal range W/a 22rf is 1 mile or more yet maximum trajectory is about 100yds.

I have. But if that logic holds then we should be against them in the areas that just opened over the last years. Or maybe banning them unless used out of stands?

[Lawdwaz]

Ever hear of ricochets?

 

I know I've read before that shotgun slugs tend to ricochet WORSE than rifle bullets.