Antler Restrictions - voluntary or otherwise

[Pygmy]

there is plenty of other places to hunt in NY that don't have AR's.  If they quit because of the ARs they in my opinion didn't have a passion for hunting here.

 

So, everyone should be required to have the same level of PASSION for deer hunting ?? That's BS....

 

I would have quit spending my $$ on Pennsylvania tags due to ARs years ago if it were not for the fact that I can usually draw ( and fill) two doe tags down there.

[Doc]

there is plenty of other places to hunt in NY that don't have AR's. If they quit because of the ARs they in my opinion didn't have a passion for hunting here.

 

There you go. Regulate them right the heck out of the sport if they aren't fanatical enough .... right? Hey that's another way to get bigger bucks to hang on our walls. Fewer hunters. That idea sounds like a winner. New game management concept ..... lol.

[jjb4900]

There you go. Regulate them right the heck out of the sport if they aren't fanatical enough .... right? Hey that's another way to get bigger bucks to hang on our walls. Fewer hunters. That idea sounds like a winner. New game management concept ..... lol.

Hey, deer hunting is serious business, no room for guys who think it's supposed to be "fun"...............you know what they say "go big or go home"

[ItalianHunter5]

jjb has a great point that I agree, the people who currently own or hunt land in Ulster, Sullivan, Delaware etc. are suffering from the antler restrictions meanwhile I can freely shoot a spike in the 3 other counties I hunt in. None of this makes sense to me and I also know of people that would immediately stop hunting New York and buy non-resident tags for another state as long as they found a spot, if it became statewide. Besides the fact that I don't know about you guys but out of the 3 bucks I've killed, I've had a perfect look at the head on only one of them and knew that it was a spike. On my other 2 all I saw was an antler and as long as I still have my tag, I'm taking a shot. In the places i'm hunting it's borderline impossible to have the time to count out how many points are on a side when they are in front of you mixed in brush for a minute tops...

[nyantler]

Hey, deer hunting is serious business, no room for guys who think it's supposed to be "fun"...............you know what they say "go big or go home"

 

I disagree... the fun of deer hunting is what keeps us all doing it... AR's serve only a small portion of total deer management... without the hunter numbers to deal with population control you will never have truly healthy herds... the constant loss of deer habitat makes it imperative that we control population to prevent rampant disease that could be devastating to herds across the state... as much as I'm for young buck protection... AR's without all the rest of deer management serves only the trophy hunter who really cares nothing about conservation... good deer management needs lots of hunter participation...and really if you think that deer hunting is all serious business then you're missing out on all the fun the rest of us are having.

[jjb4900]

I disagree... the fun of deer hunting is what keeps us all doing it... AR's serve only a small portion of total deer management... without the hunter numbers to deal with population control you will never have truly healthy herds... the constant loss of deer habitat makes it imperative that we control population to prevent rampant disease that could be devastating to herds across the state... as much as I'm for young buck protection... AR's without all the rest of deer management serves only the trophy hunter who really cares nothing about conservation... good deer management needs lots of hunter participation...and really if you think that deer hunting is all serious business then you're missing out on all the fun the rest of us are having.

I was being sarcastic....my opinion is totally the opposite of my post.

[nyantler]

I was being sarcastic....my opinion is totally the opposite of my post.

 

Oops... My apologies then.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

there is plenty of other places to hunt in NY that don't have AR's. If they quit because of the ARs they in my opinion didn't have a passion for hunting here.

He says to hunter who owned land or camps in the areas prior to the change

[Five Seasons]

Why are Hunter numbers increasing in states with ARs in the Midwest? Frustrated hunters or great bucks to hunt?

[burmjohn]

Why are Hunter numbers increasing in states with ARs in the Midwest? Frustrated hunters or great bucks to hunt?

 

The deer just don't disappear either, those same deer you can't shoot the first year of AR's are there the next year bigger, more meat, and better then ever. I get some of the frustration the first year or two of AR's but after that...  If you are a meat hunter, why in gods earth would you shoot a yearling.  I have yet to meat (get it heh) someone in person who has been against AR's in 3H.  From the local butcher's mouth who processes 100's of deer in the area, local store owners,  to every local and non-local hunter in the area have nothing but good things to say about AR's.  Again, I speak for my area and my area only. There has also been a big uptick of food plots and land improvement in the area that went along with the AR program. People know know with those yearlings making it to the next year, education, along with other habitat improvements, things can change for the better both for the heard and the hunter. 

[Doc]

Why are Hunter numbers increasing in states with ARs in the Midwest? Frustrated hunters or great bucks to hunt?

Well, I guess we'll just have to take your word for that. Personally I have never seen any such statistics from a credible source that didn't have a pro-AR agenda. I wish people would quote sources when they make these kinds of statements. I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm just saying it would be nice if there was some credible source connected with the comment rather than expecting everyone to just nod their head. And if the info is indeed true, does the logic necessarily follow that because hunter numbers are increasing it has to be because of AR?

[Doc]

I love the attitude that says, "Gee everything is great here I hunt. Let's have statewide AR".

 

Damn people, not everything has further restrictions as a solution.

[Curmudgeon]

The first response to my inquiry was "dead horse". If so, people haven't tired of kicking it.

 

My takeaway from this conversation is that mandatory ARs limit opportunity, and opportunity is critical for maintaining and recruiting hunters.

 

Where those who can control enough land agree, voluntary ARs seem like a very positive thing.

[burmjohn]

The first response to my inquiry was "dead horse". If so, people haven't tired of kicking it.

My takeaway from this conversation is that mandatory ARs limit opportunity, and opportunity is critical for maintaining and recruiting hunters.

So is having a healthy heard with age structure.

[dszymo]

I don't know of any Midwest state with state AR's . I know IL, KS,IA, and OH don't have any statewide mandated AR's.  The one thing these states do have are short 3 to7 day gun seasons mostly with shotguns, they also have far fewer hunters. http://www.qdma.com/articles/hunter-density-across-the-u.s

Well, I guess we'll just have to take your word for that. Personally I have never seen any such statistics from a credible source that didn't have a pro-AR agenda. I wish people would quote sources when they make these kinds of statements. I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm just saying it would be nice if there was some credible source connected with the comment rather than expecting everyone to just nod their head. And if the info is indeed true, does the logic necessarily follow that because hunter numbers are increasing it has to be because of AR?

 

Edited November 14, 2014 by dszymo

[Five Seasons]

so far I know two hunters who no longer hunt due to antler restrictions, older guys who routinely made the trip to NY from FL every November to deer hunt.......I'm willing to bet it'll discourage a lot of new hunters and older hunters who have to pass on what they would have been thrilled to kill before we see a turn around of guys running to NY and dumping money into the economy because of the monster deer that may or may not eventually be around.............just my thoughts.

 

can't shoot a doe? would rather shoot a spike? that's what I find troubling. If you're hunting for food the horns shouldn't matter. And if you're 70 and a long time hunter, do you really need another fork horn on your cabin wall?

[SteveB]

Can't shoot a doe if you don't have a permit and am not a bowhunter.

Not everybody saves and displays racks - to many it would be like saving the tail.

[Five Seasons]

The deer just don't disappear either, those same deer you can't shoot the first year of AR's are there the next year bigger, more meat, and better then ever. I get some of the frustration the first year or two of AR's but after that...  If you are a meat hunter, why in gods earth would you shoot a yearling.  I have yet to meat (get it heh) someone in person who has been against AR's in 3H.  From the local butcher's mouth who processes 100's of deer in the area, local store owners,  to every local and non-local hunter in the area have nothing but good things to say about AR's.  Again, I speak for my area and my area only. There has also been a big uptick of food plots and land improvement in the area that went along with the AR program. People know know with those yearlings making it to the next year, education, along with other habitat improvements, things can change for the better both for the heard and the hunter. 

 

exactly. the deer dont vanish. They may be a little smarter and harder to kill, but after a few years of ARs you will generally get better deer.

 

Well, I guess we'll just have to take your word for that. Personally I have never seen any such statistics from a credible source that didn't have a pro-AR agenda. I wish people would quote sources when they make these kinds of statements. I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm just saying it would be nice if there was some credible source connected with the comment rather than expecting everyone to just nod their head. And if the info is indeed true, does the logic necessarily follow that because hunter numbers are increasing it has to be because of AR?

 

It's been posted 100 times so I figured you'd have read it. I know you may believe they have an agenda, but until someone else puts out a report with license sales and harvest data this is all we have

http://www.qdma.com/corporate/whitetail-report

 

 

I love the attitude that says, "Gee everything is great here I hunt. Let's have statewide AR".

 

Damn people, not everything has further restrictions as a solution.

 

nobody said state wide. Would be horrible for some areas like the daks and others that generally have overpopulation.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Why are Hunter numbers increasing in states with ARs in the Midwest? Frustrated hunters or great bucks to hunt?

 

You do know that there are very few areas in the midwest with ARs, right? Even Illinois, the one with the most, doesnt have them everywhere.

 

Saying the Midwest has good deer hunting because of ARs is complete nonsense. You have to start looking at many other factors, like large chunks of contiguous land, little pressure on the deer, low hunter numbers, and thats even before you go into the reasons why the average buck out there is larger than in NY.

[WNYBuckHunter]

The first response to my inquiry was "dead horse". If so, people haven't tired of kicking it.

 

My takeaway from this conversation is that mandatory ARs limit opportunity, and opportunity is critical for maintaining and recruiting hunters.

 

Where those who can control enough land agree, voluntary ARs seem like a very positive thing.

 

People here rarely tire of kicking this horse. Its one of the biggest issues facing NY in the hunting relm.

 

I agree 100% with your statement. Voluntary is good, and recruitment of others into that voluntary mindset should happen through education, not forcing things down peoples throats.

 

The farms I hunt are a good example, used to be a brown and down, drive the deer every day type of deal there. Most of the guys there have been thinking differently for a few years now. Most of the farms around us are as well. Last year, and so far this year, we only shot one buck that was not to the ears, and that was a youth's first deer. We have great deer showing up and everyone is happy. Why? Because we all CHOOSE to hunt the same way, nobody forced anything on us. We still do some drives in some areas, heck, they are alot of fun, and we put a good dent in the doe population that way. We have fun, we knock down some great deer, and we make lots of great memories.

[gfdeputy2]

OK maybe this is a dumb question but in the areas that have AR's why were they implemented

& to the hunters that support them what would your reason for implementation?

Article from NH fish & game we had an antler restriction in part of NH but was removed 4-5 years later

but season ends 1 week earlier then the rest of the state. here is an article I found on NH Fish & Game's site whether for them or against them I thought it was a good read

AntlerRestrictionsArticle.pdf

 

Edited November 14, 2014 by gfdeputy2

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Its all about the $$$$$$$ Ny top dogs know if they have bigger deer they will bring in out of state hunters. Hunters numbers are not dropping in every state like Ny is so they will jump on the band wagon and have Ar in most of the state and then issue a million doe tags to calm the beasts!

[ItalianHunter5]

At what burmjohn said about not knowing a hunter against AR's in 3H, I do. I can name 8 right off the top of my head.

[steve863]

Its all about the $$$$$$$ Ny top dogs know if they have bigger deer they will bring in out of state hunters. Hunters numbers are not dropping in every state like Ny is so they will jump on the band wagon and have Ar in most of the state and then issue a million doe tags to calm the beasts!

 

 

Everything is money to you isn't it?  So what would happen in NYS if it became the big buck state that you want it to become(not like it will ever happen)?? Instead of having thousands of people who can enjoy hunting for a moderate cost, you want only a few to be able to enjoy it at top dollar so people like you can get their cut from it?  That is BS right there, and discounts any statements you make around here. The DEC surely wouldn't benefit from having this state be a trophy mecca.  Yeah, maybe they could sell non-resident tags at higher cost, but what good would that do when thousands of other residents hunters would be giving up the sport and they would lose all those license fees?  I tell you, out of all the people on this site your ideas have got to be the most convoluted of anyones.

[steve863]

At what burmjohn said about not knowing a hunter against AR's in 3H, I do. I can name 8 right off the top of my head.

 

 

Burmjohn wears earrings that turn into earplugs when anyone says anything negative about AR's, so he couldn't possibly be hearing anyone.  LOL